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The Sultan of Seoul
Joined: 17 Apr 2012
Location: right... behind.. YOU
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 Posted: Sat May 05, 2012 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="madoka"][quote="geldedgoat"]Maybe a lot of those people chanting genuinely thought it was an international team and not a fellow American team.
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It was an intramural volleyball game; the operative word being intramural, not international.
Not to mention taunts against the Asian-American students to "learn English" and "speak English" such as this reported exchange:
Beta fans: USA! USA!
KUSA team member: I was born in New York!
Beta fans: Speak English!
Everyone understands the implication of the USA in this context, just like a couple months ago at a high school basketball game:
A Texas school district has apologized for what some perceived as a racist chant from fans after one of its teams beat a rival in a high school basketball playoff game.
Alamo Heights High School, which is made up mostly of white students, beat Edison High, which is predominantly Hispanic, in the Region IV-4A championship in San Antonio on Saturday. As Alamo players celebrated the win on the court, a large group of students began cheering �USA! USA!� |
Meh, someone shouts 'USA' at you; if that's the worst of your problems, consider yourself lucky. Don't get so wound up, grow a thicker skin.
(Isn't that what certain posters tell foriegners who complain about being catcalled and shouted rude words at by Koreans in Korea...?) |
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repeatpete
Joined: 24 Oct 2010
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| Posted: Sun May 06, 2012 1:27 am Post subject: |
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not in any way wishing to derail the above thread, the discussion above seems to be wandering in the direction of 'identity in America' and just put me in mind of an exchange from the film 'The Good Shepherd.' (2006)
There is a conversation between Joe Pesci and Matt Damon which can be found on youtube if you type 'the rest of you are just visiting.' |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Sun May 06, 2012 6:38 am Post subject: |
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| metalhead wrote: |
I'm not getting into a quote-fest with you, but it was mentioned in the comments on the site by other students that the Asians hang out with other Asians.
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'The Asians'? So no one is actually talking about the players as individuals. Hey, they all look alike, they must be like those Asians I see hanging out together,
And how is it that if someone sees a group of Asians they assume that they must always be hanging out with other Asians?
If you look at a group of white people do you assume they only hang out with other white people and wall off other minorities?
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| Why indeed would someone who is short-term in Korea put a lot of effort into learning the language? I suspect usefulness of Korean once one leaves Korea may be part of it. If, however, someone intends to live in Korea for a long period, or marries a Korean, yes then I think they should learn Korean. Still very different to the situation of Asians born in America that speak fluent English yet only hang out in groups comprised of other Asians. |
Again, who said they only hang out in groups of other Asians? Most Asians I know have multiple groups of friends they hang out with of varying backgrounds.
In fact, I'd submit that they may have more diverse groups of friends than your average Frat boy. As I already mentioned, most Asians have a "non-Asian" friend circle they hang out with, then add that many are involved in Churches that tend to draw Protestant immigrants from around the globe, and tend to be active in Academic-based organizations that tend to also draw immigrant students from around the globe, and in fact their diversity may be significantly greater.
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| I am sure you realise that American culture comes from European culture |
Actually, REAL American culture comes from Native Americans, so if we're talking about looking "American", I'd say that Asians look far more "American" than Anglo-Americans.
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| hey are un-American because they are not white and because they distance themselves from white people |
Who says they distance themselves? Again, were any of the posters actual friends of the players?
Are white people who hang out with other white people distancing themselves from blacks, Hispanics, and Asians? Why are we not debating whether the Betas are open-minded and distancing?
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| When your average Korean thinks of America, which race do they associate with America? |
Probably black because of Obama, the most famous American in the world and the representative of America. Is he un-American because he is not white?
Heck after Bill Gates at number 2, in the top 5, you'd probably get Tiger Woods, Michael Jordan, and...well...Michael Jackson. The next closest being Steve Jobs, Lincoln, Einstein, and maybe Madonna or Hillary Clinton.
"The principle on which this country was founded and by which it has always been governed is that Americanism is a matter of the mind and heart; Americanism is not, and never was, a matter of race or ancestry"
- Franklin D. Roosevelt
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| Meh, someone shouts 'USA' at you; if that's the worst of your problems, consider yourself lucky. Don't get so wound up, grow a thicker skin. |
This is true, especially when its a bunch of drunken frat boys. Though the fact that it was a group incident as part of a crowd pushes it more towards soccer fan racial taunts level than some school kid saying hello.
In their defense, they would probably taunt the Special Olympics volleyball champions, so they are equal opportunity offenders. |
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Patrick Bateman
Joined: 21 Apr 2009
Location: Lost in Translation
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| Posted: Sun May 06, 2012 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
Absolutely.
It's a shame that not all people can have an ethnic student union. It's also a shame that people are so narrow minded that they can't accept that it's possible for someone to be part of an ethnic student union and still consider themselves part of the greater whole.
The underlying problem is still this- Asian-American, Indian-American, and Arab-American students especially were somehow not considered American, for what reason? |
Why can't everyone have an ethnic student union? Going even farther, what exactly are the merits of having an ethnic student union? Is Asian an ethnicity?
The fact of the matter is, after 1st generation, you are just an American. I know there's debate about whether or not "American" is an ethnicity, but if anything, that just illustrates the lunacy of the whole conception of ethnic pride.
I know people like to feel part of a community, and I know that people like to feel special and have pride, but it's all just a bunch of invisible and unnecessary boxes.
If you like to hang out with people that look, think, and/or act like you, fine, I have no problem with that. Just don't make a big stink about it. |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Sun May 06, 2012 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Patrick Bateman wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
Absolutely.
It's a shame that not all people can have an ethnic student union. It's also a shame that people are so narrow minded that they can't accept that it's possible for someone to be part of an ethnic student union and still consider themselves part of the greater whole.
The underlying problem is still this- Asian-American, Indian-American, and Arab-American students especially were somehow not considered American, for what reason? |
Why can't everyone have an ethnic student union? Going even farther, what exactly are the merits of having an ethnic student union? Is Asian an ethnicity?
The fact of the matter is, after 1st generation, you are just an American. I know there's debate about whether or not "American" is an ethnicity, but if anything, that just illustrates the lunacy of the whole conception of ethnic pride.
I know people like to feel part of a community, and I know that people like to feel special and have pride, but it's all just a bunch of invisible and unnecessary boxes.
If you like to hang out with people that look, think, and/or act like you, fine, I have no problem with that. Just don't make a big stink about it. |
The ethnic student unions at my uni were social and cultural clubs. Anyone could join, and white kids would join for discounted club entry and dimsum. Some groups would bring speakers to campus to discuss issues of particular interest to their specific regions of focus. Really, I fail to see what the problem is (especially hailing from the New England where every other car has a shamrock on it). |
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Patrick Bateman
Joined: 21 Apr 2009
Location: Lost in Translation
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| Posted: Sun May 06, 2012 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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| northway wrote: |
| Patrick Bateman wrote: |
If you like to hang out with people that look, think, and/or act like you, fine, I have no problem with that. Just don't make a big stink about it. |
Some groups would bring speakers to campus to discuss issues of particular interest to their specific regions of focus. Really, I fail to see what the problem is (especially hailing from the New England where every other car has a shamrock on it). |
There isn't a problem per se, as I already mentioned. I was addressing ethnicity at large.
I'm also not singling out non-Caucasian ethnic groups as my thoughts and opinions are equally applicable to "European" Americans. |
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alljokingaside
Joined: 17 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 2:16 am Post subject: |
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| Patrick Bateman wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
Absolutely.
It's a shame that not all people can have an ethnic student union. It's also a shame that people are so narrow minded that they can't accept that it's possible for someone to be part of an ethnic student union and still consider themselves part of the greater whole.
The underlying problem is still this- Asian-American, Indian-American, and Arab-American students especially were somehow not considered American, for what reason? |
Why can't everyone have an ethnic student union? Going even farther, what exactly are the merits of having an ethnic student union? Is Asian an ethnicity?
The fact of the matter is, after 1st generation, you are just an American. I know there's debate about whether or not "American" is an ethnicity, but if anything, that just illustrates the lunacy of the whole conception of ethnic pride.
I know people like to feel part of a community, and I know that people like to feel special and have pride, but it's all just a bunch of invisible and unnecessary boxes.
If you like to hang out with people that look, think, and/or act like you, fine, I have no problem with that. Just don't make a big stink about it. |
Well, maybe it's because society informs you that you are an "Other," regardless of your actual "ethnicity" or background. Maybe, it's because the hyphenation wasn't self-afflicted like a suicide, but aggravated like a murder. Rather, normalized. That you haven't even had the respect to have been told explicitly, but rather through institutional mechanisms that you aren't an American, but a _______-American. A half-breed bastrd bubbled in.
Maybe, because a set of genes expressed itself with ch**** eyes, or ni*** lips, or va** skin, and rendered you moot and alien to the "wide eyed." That you are not now nor ever will be an American. "How ethnic." That integration is internal and mfkas are silly and superficial. That despite utter integration, that folk outside of your circle may and will still see you as "exotic," "primitive," "inscrutable," etc. if you dare venture out. That those boxes to which you refer aren't always built by the dwellers' hands, but forged from external pressures. That those walls are the leeside of a blowhard wind. That those boxes aren't boxes, but tenements. Encasement. Quarantine.
Maybe because the American President himself has had and still has a frighteningly strong contingent/crusade riled against him by reason of "ethnicity" alone. Maybe, it's because a set of dead white men set up the rules by reason of force that has trickled down and against non-whites and cohesiveness is needed to level the playing field. (And please do not espouse that libertarian nonsense, read bootstrap BULL****, that all fields of play are level.)
Maybe it's just cuz they need others in their social circles who "understand."
Maybe it's because you need some recognition of the difference in personal history that does exist. That not everyone was reared in a white bread household like the Keatons with the crust cut out.
Maybe its' because the printed t-shirts and sweats look even more fantastic with a hyphen thrown in the mix. (Though, honestly, it's pretty hard to make any sweat look good.)
Maybe we make a "stink" because socio-cultural purgatory and hell, the flung bullshit, the pressurizing stinks and we'd just like to be open and share.
Here's to me sharing. |
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Patrick Bateman
Joined: 21 Apr 2009
Location: Lost in Translation
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| Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 2:59 am Post subject: |
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| alljokingaside wrote: |
Here's to me sharing. |
Share away.
There's little doubt that there are some serious issues with race perception in the U.S. I think having an open and honest discussion about them is a lot better than unnecessarily dividing ourselves, pretending to embrace multiculturalism, or raising a fuss over nothing.
You have passion, I'll give you that. Just seems misdirected. You're also mighty focused on extremes. It's not a white vs. non-white issue. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 6:08 am Post subject: |
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| Patrick Bateman wrote: |
| It's not a white vs. non-white issue. |
Clearly was to this poster-
| metalhead wrote: |
| As for your last comment, I am sure you realise that American culture comes from European culture, therefore white culture, so of course white Americans are not going to look un-American, so yes, they are un-American because they are not white and because they distance themselves from white people. |
Now in his balance it is not a "white" issue in a sense because this kind of thing happens in non-white countries as well.
But clearly some people are just not going to play the game and say "frankly, you're not as American because you aren't white".
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| If you like to hang out with people that look, think, and/or act like you, fine, I have no problem with that. Just don't make a big stink about it. |
On a more humorous note, as I said before, seems there is one ethnicity out there that gets everyone claiming them, from all races, no matter how dubious their claim is- That's Irish ancestry, especially come St. Paddy's. Suddenly that guy whose 2nd cousin's grandfather was Irish, is talking in some ridiculous accent and singing Clancy Brothers songs. Seriously, you'd find some Syrian guy talking about how he received a blood transfusion from an Irish guy and now has Irish blood.
I guess the key to being loved and accepted is to have a holiday that is famous solely for drinking obscene amounts of booze and has obvious colors associated with it (why Mexicans aren't as loved for Cinco de Drinko). |
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The Sultan of Seoul
Joined: 17 Apr 2012
Location: right... behind.. YOU
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| Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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| I guess the key to being loved and accepted is to have a holiday that is famous solely for drinking obscene amounts of booze and has obvious colors associated with it |
Yeah, green looks good on most people. |
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Patrick Bateman
Joined: 21 Apr 2009
Location: Lost in Translation
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| Patrick Bateman wrote: |
| It's not a white vs. non-white issue. |
Clearly was to this poster- |
I don't share that opinion.
Regarding Cinco de Drinko, I say give it time. Given the quality of Mexican food and alcohol, it's got a lot of promise. It just needs more festivities/things to do like St.Patty's in order to really take off. |
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