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zasoukup
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
Location: Bucheon
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 Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 6:36 am Post subject: |
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So, now I'm getting fired the 16th of this month; contract is up the 7th of June. He told me in a meeting on the 16th of April he wanted to fire me, and I told him okay, give me my written notice so I can take it to the Labor Board. He never did and he's saying he doesn't have to cause telling me was good enough. He also told me on Friday, the 20th of April, that he was going to fire me on Monday. He never did.
Written notice is Korean law, is it not? This 'I told you so' is complete bs right? I'm going to the LB tomorrow morning.
Any INCHEONERS out there! Have you been to the board before? I've tracked down an office in Guwol-dong at the Arts Center station on the Incheon Metro line. Anyone know how the English is? A friend told me he worked with ATEK to track down an English speaking contact at the LB here in Incheon before. I've hit up ATEK several times but got no reply.
Finally this job is getting exciting! Thanks for the help all. |
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zasoukup
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
Location: Bucheon
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| Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 7:27 am Post subject: |
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I'm calling out the TTOMPATZ!
Boss has just today updated my release date to this Friday. My contract is up June 7th. I went to the Labor Board Monday morning and got the paperwork necessary to file a complaint. They told me I have to wait 2 weeks to file after I've actually been dismissed, which I thought was going to be May 16th based upon his threats 3 weeks ago. I still have not been given written notice of the dismissal date or the reasons for dismissal.
Monday afternoon my boss told me this is my last week, that he would be notifying kimmi of my status, that I would have only 2 weeks to leave Korea, and that if I wanted to get a lawyer, he already has one.
I'm being fired a week into my 11th month, nothing is in writing. What is my play here? Please give me advice! |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 8:05 am Post subject: |
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| zasoukup wrote: |
I'm calling out the TTOMPATZ!
Boss has just today updated my release date to this Friday. My contract is up June 7th. I went to the Labor Board Monday morning and got the paperwork necessary to file a complaint. They told me I have to wait 2 weeks to file after I've actually been dismissed, which I thought was going to be May 16th based upon his threats 3 weeks ago. I still have not been given written notice of the dismissal date or the reasons for dismissal.
Monday afternoon my boss told me this is my last week, that he would be notifying kimmi of my status, that I would have only 2 weeks to leave Korea, and that if I wanted to get a lawyer, he already has one.
I'm being fired a week into my 11th month, nothing is in writing. What is my play here? Please give me advice! |
If your contract is up June 7th, then tomorrow is the first day of your 12th month. This means that 30 days notice from today takes you through to almost the end of your contract - sounds like your boss was counting days so as not to fire you in the 12th month.
Will you have worked a full year on June 7th, or did you have a short contract period or arrive late into your contract period? It doesn't change your situation, but it's easier to discuss if the dates are straight.
It seems that your boss is trying to cheat you out of all of your end of contract payments: 1 month severance pay, final month's pay (or 30 notice pay), and return airfare. He's already cheated you out of your Pension and Health Insurance (unless you are a legal Independent Contractor, but it sounds like your boss lacks the finesse for that). It's also likely that your boss has withheld your income taxes at a rate higher than the 1.5% to 2% that would probably be where you fall in the progressive tax system, and further, it's quite likely that he's only paid in the exact minimum amount to the Tax office and pocketed the rest, or maybe he's pocketed all of it and reported nothing.
This means that you have a lot to report to the Labor Office, and unless there is some truly awful or illegal thing that you've done that you're not telling us, the Labor Office will get all over him. You can also turn him in to the Pension, Health Insurance and Income Tax offices.
All of this action you will want to take against your boss - and you will want to get started right away. But, you have a bigger problem. You will need a place to stay starting this Saturday morning at the latest. Your boss will probably make your life hell by then if you're not out of the free housing - and it's not worth the pounding, screaming, threats, breaking in, or finding your stuff thrown on the street. In fact, I would recommend being moved out before you go to teach on Friday. So, you need to find somewhere to move your stuff Thursday night or before. This will give you rest, peace of mind and security.
If you want to stay in Korea you will also need to get busy on finding a new job fast - documents, job search, check into a D10 or visa transfer with Immigration etc. You will want to land on your feet and begin working ASAP. Your case against your boss will take time and you need to have an income while you fight.
Hang in there. These end of contract firings are the worst. |
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luckylady
Joined: 30 Jan 2012
Location: u.s. of occupied territories
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| Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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yes, you definitely have to get your housing situation in order; try for a goshiwon which should do you until you get re-settled in a new position
*also* very important - when you DO move out, make sure the labor board AND your boss (until you are officially no longer an employee which means your visa has been canceled) BOTH have your new address - this is a legal requirement for your visa sponsor to know where you are and you don't want to make any mistakes at this point, i.e., he claims you actually pulled a runner or something
the labor board should also be very helpful - it's good you finally got over there and started the process - I'd be willing to bet they already have a file on your hakwon -
be sure and ask them what they think you should do - they might offer to telephone your boss, or just do it -which is good - don't worry about his "I have a lawyer" remark - he's just blowing hot air -
in the meanwhile, be prepared to show up for work next Monday (and every day afterwards), sit in the lobby/front if necessary, unless and until the Labor Board says otherwise.
they are really who you need to listen to right now - |
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zasoukup
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
Location: Bucheon
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 1:50 am Post subject: |
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My contract began June 7th, 2011. As of this Friday, my dismissal date, I have only 28 days left on my current contract. My dismissal date was the 16th of next week but he dialed it back to this Friday when I came into work on Monday.
I've already started moving my things and I have a couple of options on where to crash. Good friends. I'm looking for a new position as well.
I've heard both ways on what I should do next week. He hasn't given me anything in writing and I asked him twice this week to put it down on paper that he is letting me go this Friday. He's given me jack. Am I looking for an LOR here or just something that says he is firing me? And if he doesn't give it to me, should I just keep showing up to work?
Last bit. Yes, I've been taxed at 3.3%, no healthcare, no pension. Those will be my next phone calls after I wrap up things with kimmi and the Labor Board. |
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ghostrider
Joined: 27 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 4:10 am Post subject: |
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| zasoukup wrote: |
My contract began June 7th, 2011. As of this Friday, my dismissal date, I have only 28 days left on my current contract. My dismissal date was the 16th of next week but he dialed it back to this Friday when I came into work on Monday.
I've already started moving my things and I have a couple of options on where to crash. Good friends. I'm looking for a new position as well.
I've heard both ways on what I should do next week. He hasn't given me anything in writing and I asked him twice this week to put it down on paper that he is letting me go this Friday. He's given me jack. Am I looking for an LOR here or just something that says he is firing me? And if he doesn't give it to me, should I just keep showing up to work?
Last bit. Yes, I've been taxed at 3.3%, no healthcare, no pension. Those will be my next phone calls after I wrap up things with kimmi and the Labor Board. |
He can't make you leave before 30 days has passed. You might want to show him Article 32 of the Labor Standards Act:
"(1) An employer shall give an advance notice to a worker at least thirty days before dismissal(including dismissal for managerial reasons). If the notice is not given thirty days before the dismissal, normal wages for more than thirty days shall be paid to the worker, except in cases, prescribed by the Ordinance of the Ministry of Labor, where it is impossible to continue a business because of natural disaster, calamity, or other unavoidable causes, or where a worker has caused considerable difficulties to a business, or damage to properties on purpose. <Amended by Act No. 5885, Feb. 8, 1999>
(2) Deleted. <Act No. 5885, Feb. 8, 1999>"
http://wiki.galbijim.com/Labor_Standards_Act
"제32조 (해고의 예고) ①사용자는 근로자를 해고(경영상 이유에 의한 해고를 포함한다)하고자 할 때에는 적어도 30일전에 그 예고를 하여야 하며 30일전에 예고를 하지 아니한 때에는 30일분 이상의 통상임금을 지급하여야 한다. 다만, 천재�사변 기타 부득이한 사유로 사업계속이 불가능한 경우 또는 근로자가 고의로 사업에 막대한 지장을 초래하거나 재산상 손해를 끼친 경우로서 노동부령이 정하는 사유에 해당하는 경우에는 그러하지 아니하다. [개정 99�2�8]
②삭제 [99�2�8]"
http://wiki.galbijim.com/Labor_Standards_Act_(Korean) |
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escarole
Joined: 06 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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| OP, if the hagwon you're at has fewer than five "regular" employees, the Labor Board might not enforce the 30 day written notice requirement. |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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The SOB wants you to sign a new contract because that contract will stipulate a lower salary and then he can pretend, based on the new contract, that you did not work a full year.
The very second you're into your last month of the original contract term, get up at the crack of dawn and get yourself to the pension office that covers the area where your hagweon is located. Take with you your contract, your bank books for the entire year, and pay slips if any. It does not matter that the contract does not mention pension. Pension is required by law. If he wants to fire you during your 12th month there, he'll be facing a losing battle at the Labor Board.
What about the apartment? Are you registered as living there? I mean, is the apartment address the one liste don your Alien Registration Card? If so, and he threatens to fire you, inform him that he will then have to take legal action to evict you. You have changed the locks/access code and will not vacate the place voluntarily. Then tell him that his financial interest is in him honoring the contract with you, not trying to cheat his way out of it. |
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zasoukup
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
Location: Bucheon
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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We have 8 employees as of right now. He has never given me pay slips, but I do have all my bank books. The apartment address is on my registration card.
I went to the Pension and Tax Office this morning. I got a document from NPS stating that I was never registered to pay into or recieve a pension. Also, and I think this is the big one, they had no record of me at the Tax Office. I got a document from them as well showing that I have no tax record. And as I mentioned before, he never gave me Healthcare; Korean law and in my contract.
I'm going back to the Labor Board tomorrow morning and filing the paperwork I got Monday. I think I have enough to force the issue and I'm not waiting until the 25th. |
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zasoukup
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
Location: Bucheon
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| Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 1:54 am Post subject: |
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Ok, the Labor Board is sticking with the 2 weeks period of time I need to wait before I submit my complaint.
Today, I got a letter from my boss. Addressed to me at the school, from him (same address) - dated yesterday, May 9th, 2012 Of course it's in Korean, no English, but I think I got the jist of it. He's finally giving me my 30 days notice.
He's citing the meeting we had April 16th when I told him if he wanted to fire me then I wanted my 30 day notice, IN WRITING. I've asked multiple times since then and he never gave it to me, until today. What he's saying is that he gave me a verbal notification and that I agreed to it, so good enough. In fact, he asks me to keep my promise to quit next week on the 15th (30 days). The balls on this guy. He even has the teachers who were in the room down as witnesses. I've downloaded the Labor Standards Act from the MOEL website and I believe Articles 26 and 27 of Chapter 2 clearly prohibit this. Or am I looking at the wrong thing?
He has also gathered his reasons. Most of them were brought to my attention for the first time in our meeting April 16th. The rest of them that he mentions were all things he harrassed me about the following week while he followed me around the school; April 23rd to the 27th. After that Friday, the 27th, I didn't see him again until this Monday. Like I said before, I have never had a single meeting with my boss, prior to April 16th, concerning any of the issues he is now using to justify my dismissal.
Thoughts? |
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luckylady
Joined: 30 Jan 2012
Location: u.s. of occupied territories
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| Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 10:43 am Post subject: |
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| zasoukup wrote: |
Ok, the Labor Board is sticking with the 2 weeks period of time I need to wait before I submit my complaint.
Today, I got a letter from my boss. Addressed to me at the school, from him (same address) - dated yesterday, May 9th, 2012 Of course it's in Korean, no English, but I think I got the jist of it. He's finally giving me my 30 days notice.
He's citing the meeting we had April 16th when I told him if he wanted to fire me then I wanted my 30 day notice, IN WRITING. I've asked multiple times since then and he never gave it to me, until today. What he's saying is that he gave me a verbal notification and that I agreed to it, so good enough. In fact, he asks me to keep my promise to quit next week on the 15th (30 days). The balls on this guy. He even has the teachers who were in the room down as witnesses. I've downloaded the Labor Standards Act from the MOEL website and I believe Articles 26 and 27 of Chapter 2 clearly prohibit this. Or am I looking at the wrong thing?
He has also gathered his reasons. Most of them were brought to my attention for the first time in our meeting April 16th. The rest of them that he mentions were all things he harrassed me about the following week while he followed me around the school; April 23rd to the 27th. After that Friday, the 27th, I didn't see him again until this Monday. Like I said before, I have never had a single meeting with my boss, prior to April 16th, concerning any of the issues he is now using to justify my dismissal.
Thoughts? |
what exactly is Labor telling you to wait 2 weeks for? that sounds like if you aren't paid, which is usually a grace period for the employer to pay the employee. you can file a complaint immediately for any number of things if an employer has acted against you, the employee.
with your boss gathering witnesses against you - and that's no surprise, the other Korean employees don't want to lose their jobs - your focus needs to be on what exactly you want at this point. generally that's a figure of funds that you are deemed owed to you.
figure this out, write it down and detail what it's for. the tax office is pretty much useless when it comes to asking for them to do anything against a hakwon but you can insist on a record of your pay from your boss with details and he is obliged to provide it, tho it will probably be a fight to get it.
insurance will just cost you money because at this point, if you haven't been paying into it, and you are about to leave, what's the point? they will charge you pro-rata all those months you never paid whereas if you leave the country for whatever reason (holiday, visa run) and start a new position, you will be charged from the point you re-entered Korea on the next go-round, which is financially in your favor.
pension is another story since the employer owes you his contribution, so hold firm on this - the pension office should help get this for you but they'll want your contribution as well, again, it will be backtracked for the prior months.
back to labor, they can't help you for an illegal firing until you are actually fired. that's not going to happen until the date actually passes that your boss is claiming you both agreed on that you would leave - and it's very likely even with a miscommunication claim, he will prevail due to the other employees claiming witness.
again, think about a number in terms of money owed and what would be agreeable to you - is it worth it to continue this for another couple of months? that's a LOT of stress and energy - but maybe it's worth it to you - chances are your boss will settle - or not - I don't know - but it is time to start making a decision as to what exactly it is you want and expect to get out of all this.
please don't misunderstand or take this the wrong way, but a lot of your posts have been less than clear in several ways as to what you want and/or expect. I can't help but wonder if it's the same with the labor board and your boss. I'm saying this only to help you clarify your communications.
take notes when you are at the Labor board and don't leave until you've recapped everything and are perfectly clear on both your options and what you need to do next as well as did they answer all your questions - which you should have a list with you when you go.
same for dealing with your boss. the fact that you worked there all that time and never received a detailed payment receipt is a sign that you really weren't aware - or were too lax - on these kinds of details that are pertinent in all jobs, not just in Korea. now you know better, so make this a learning experience and move up your communication in professional situations to a higher level - ok? it will serve you better in the future.
hang in there - in a few months, it will all be history and you'll be the wiser/stronger for whatever the outcome is. |
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zasoukup
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
Location: Bucheon
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| Posted: Sun May 13, 2012 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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lucklady...
I believe the 2 weeks is for exactly that. A grace period for my employer to pay anything he owes me.
You're right on the insurance and I wasn't planning on getting into that this late in the game.
The pension though I'd be totally willing to register for, backpay my own contributions, then let them go after my boss for his contributions.
I understand what your saying about concerning the actual date of dismissal. He isn't even claiming a miscommunication but that I flat out agreed to leave 30 days from the 16th of April. That's just a lie. Whether my head teacher and co-teacher will back him up, I really can't know. I haven't seen my head teacher since the Friday the 4th, I believe he had her take last week off so he could try and fire me last Friday, the 11th, which he tried to do when he came into work on Monday the 7th.
I'm really unconvinced of his certainty that this strategy will work. This letter he sent me is laughable. He said it would be from his lawyer yet I witnessed him writing it when he came to the school on Wed afternoon. That was only the second time I saw him last week and the last.
He also mailed the letter to me at the school the following afternoon, Thurs. I think he made a mistep by not giving me the notice himself. He wasn't at the school Thur or Fri, the vice president didn't arrive until after I had the letter, and as I said my head teacher is MIA. I'm not even sure if she'll be back this week.
He threatened to fire me the 23rd of April. Last Monday he said I was finished the 11th of May. Then he dissapears but mails me a letter, in Korean, calling for my resignation the 15th of May. The way I see it, I never got that letter. I get many pieces of Korean mail and as I don't know the language, they usually go in the trash. I'm going into work this week disregarding his "firing" of me last Friday. With just 24 days left on my contract, I'm not accepting any 30 days notice. He'll have to fire me on the spot and pay me the one month's salary he owes me according to the provisions laid out in the LSA. He hasn't legally fired me and that's the exact same thing I've been saying since April 16th. If I leave now, he wins.
That's what I want right now. Then I'll take him to the Labor Board for the rest of it. Should make for one hell of an akward week at work! |
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zasoukup
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
Location: Bucheon
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| Posted: Sun May 13, 2012 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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lucklady...
I believe the 2 weeks is for exactly that. A grace period for my employer to pay anything he owes me.
You're right on the insurance and I wasn't planning on getting into that this late in the game.
The pension though I'd be totally willing to register for, backpay my own contributions, then let them go after my boss for his contributions.
I understand what your saying about concerning the actual date of dismissal. He isn't even claiming a miscommunication but that I flat out agreed to leave 30 days from the 16th of April. That's just a lie. Whether my head teacher and co-teacher will back him up, I really can't know. I haven't seen my head teacher since the Friday the 4th, I believe he had her take last week off so he could try and fire me last Friday, the 11th, which he tried to do when he came into work on Monday the 7th.
I'm really unconvinced of his certainty that this strategy will work. This letter he sent me is laughable. He said it would be from his lawyer yet I witnessed him writing it when he came to the school on Wed afternoon. That was only the second time I saw him last week and the last.
He also mailed the letter to me at the school the following afternoon, Thurs. I think he made a mistep by not giving me the notice himself. He wasn't at the school Thur or Fri, the vice president didn't arrive until after I had the letter, and as I said my head teacher is MIA. I'm not even sure if she'll be back this week.
He threatened to fire me the 23rd of April. Last Monday he said I was finished the 11th of May. Then he dissapears but mails me a letter, in Korean, calling for my resignation the 15th of May. The way I see it, I never got that letter. I get many pieces of Korean mail and as I don't know the language, they usually go in the trash. I'm going into work this week disregarding his "firing" of me last Friday. With just 24 days left on my contract, I'm not accepting any 30 days notice. He'll have to fire me on the spot and pay me the one month's salary he owes me according to the provisions laid out in the LSA. He hasn't legally fired me and that's the exact same thing I've been saying since April 16th. If I leave now, he wins.
That's what I want right now. Then I'll take him to the Labor Board for the rest of it. Should make for one hell of an akward week at work! |
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zasoukup
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
Location: Bucheon
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| Posted: Sun May 13, 2012 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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lucklady...
I believe the 2 weeks is for exactly that. A grace period for my employer to pay anything he owes me.
You're right on the insurance and I wasn't planning on getting into that this late in the game.
The pension though I'd be totally willing to register for, backpay my own contributions, then let them go after my boss for his contributions.
I understand what your saying about concerning the actual date of dismissal. He isn't even claiming a miscommunication but that I flat out agreed to leave 30 days from the 16th of April. That's just a lie. Whether my head teacher and co-teacher will back him up, I really can't know. I haven't seen my head teacher since the Friday the 4th, I believe he had her take last week off so he could try and fire me last Friday, the 11th, which he tried to do when he came into work on Monday the 7th.
I'm really unconvinced of his certainty that this strategy will work. This letter he sent me is laughable. He said it would be from his lawyer yet I witnessed him writing it when he came to the school on Wed afternoon. That was only the second time I saw him last week and the last.
He also mailed the letter to me at the school the following afternoon, Thurs. I think he made a mistep by not giving me the notice himself. He wasn't at the school Thur or Fri, the vice president didn't arrive until after I had the letter, and as I said my head teacher is MIA. I'm not even sure if she'll be back this week.
He threatened to fire me the 23rd of April. Last Monday he said I was finished the 11th of May. Then he dissapears but mails me a letter, in Korean, calling for my resignation the 15th of May. The way I see it, I never got that letter. I get many pieces of Korean mail and as I don't know the language, they usually go in the trash. I'm going into work this week disregarding his "firing" of me last Friday. With just 24 days left on my contract, I'm not accepting any 30 days notice. He'll have to fire me on the spot and pay me the one month's salary he owes me according to the provisions laid out in the LSA. He hasn't legally fired me and that's the exact same thing I've been saying since April 16th. If I leave now, he wins.
That's what I want right now. Then I'll take him to the Labor Board for the rest of it. Should make for one hell of an awkward week at work! |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Sun May 13, 2012 10:42 pm Post subject: |
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| If your employment began on June 7, 2011, then the final day of the year-long contract is not June 7, 2012; it's June 6, 2012. That's what's known as the inclusive date. Length of contract is determined using inclusive dates, not anniversary dates. |
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