Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Dave Chance]

[slothrop]

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[Dave Chance]

[Times30]

I get confused by the Buddhists monks I see in this country. Cell Phones, baseball caps, and even one time I saw one with a laptop.

I think a lot of monks are just really lazy people who couldn't get a job or don't want to work. They haven't exactly internalized Buddhist teachings and it's just way too reminiscent of christian corruption.

This video does surprise me, especially that the "top" monks would even gamble. This world is really messed up. No one keeps their word and materialistic values are so persuasive that even the top spiritual leaders are tainted.

Society is messed up folks. Hard to feel safe in a world where people would gladly take your donations and do nothing but play with it.

[The Sultan of Seoul]

I agree witht he above post.

I have been to other buddhist countires and the monks seem genuine, peaceful and 'into it.'

All the ones I've seen in and around Korea seem miserable, anti social and I've often thought a few times 'they're faking it or they are ex cons who can't do anything else, but they're just not really into it.'

Intersting that I'm not the only one who has felt that. And the op confirms it.

[pegasus64128]

[falco]

Buddhist temples do get financial help from the govt in the upkeep of some temples and for the templestay program. This is viewed by the Korean govt more as preserving historical artifacts and traditions and supporting tourism, not as direct support for Buddhism. This came directly from the mouth of my meditation teacher who is a sunim. If your going to split hairs then ,yes, in an indirect way, some Korean monks get their accomodation (temples) maintained by the state. Its hardly getting your room and board paid for by the state though.

Some historical context to work with....

Starting in the 1950s, Syngman Rhee and others worked to further divide and weaken the Buddhist Sangha in the country. Rhee campaigned in 1954 against the so-called "Japanized Buddhists". Western education and scholarship, and the empowerment of women and the poor, caused divisions among Koreans. Specifically, a deep rift opened between married priests and celibate monks, an carryover from Japanese Buddhism. The differences were so great that fistfights over the control of temples became frequent. Monks, mostly belonging to the celibate Jogye order, threatened to kill themselves. Many of them were against the Japanized Buddhists. As the Buddhist riots continued, the influence of Buddhism lessened. Buddhism continued to lose followers to Christian missionaries, who were able to capitalize on these weaknesses.

From the 1960s onward, Buddhism has grown considerably, through the formation of independent lay associations (that is, not funded or affiliated to the main orders), with many focused on youths, particularly to propagate and evangelize Buddhist teachings, fellowship and spiritual development, based on the Protestant model.[12] These adaptations have modernized Buddhism in South Korea.[12] Moreover, the South Korean government began devoting substantial funds to restore and reconstruct historic Buddhist temples, helping to revive Buddhism in the country.[9] President Park Chung-hee unsuccessfully attempted during his rule (1961�1979) to settle the dispute by building a pan-national Buddhist organization. However, he did succeed in allying himself with the celibate faction, the Jogye Order.

In the 1980s, President Chun Doo-hwan, a Methodist, adopted anti-Buddhist policies and attempted to restrict Buddhist activities.[11] During his administration, many historic temples were converted into tourist resorts, which deprived temples of their autonomy, as these "national parks" were government-run.[11] Consequently, Buddhists, especially the Chogye Order, were highly critical of these measures. From 27 to 31 October 1980, during the Kyeongsin Persecution, the government raided major Buddhist temples throughout the country, including the headquarters at Seoul's Chogyesa, under the guise of anti-government investigations and an attempt to "purify" Buddhism.[11][13] 55 monks were arrested and many others were interrogated and tortured, including the abbot of Naksansa, who died from the abuses.[13] None of the investigated monks were ever charged, although many were sent to reeducation camps. Throughout the 1980s, the Buddhist community was kept under strict surveillance of government agents and many were prosecuted under false charges of supporting Communists or conspiracy.[11]

To Buddhists, the construct of a state-protecting Buddhism (護國佛敎, Hoguk Bulgyo) had vanished, which served to radicalize a generation of Buddhists, including monks and laity and propelled them to into a movement called Minjung Buddhism (민중불교 or 民眾佛教, "practical Buddhism" or "Buddhism for the masses").[13] This modernization emphasized ordinary people and was a reaction to aggressive Christian proselytization in Korea.[9]

[slothrop]

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[Dave Chance]

Your Minjung Buddhism and meditation teacher must be highly credible and influential in view of the gambling and folks' general negative impressions. And the monk who told me his job was to transcribe certain documents as prescirbed by the state (while ignoring those not given sanction) must have been lying.

Well, better not to believe what you see, just trust your meditation teacher.

And the huge lantern parade next weekend? Not financed by the government in the least, of that we can all believe. And since the gov't doesn't finance these huge events and temple stay programs, we can all be sure they have no say in what goes on in the temples, either.

Ah yes, Korean buddhism, spreading the true word of inner contentment and wisdom. Why, we can see it all around us, can't we?

http://theunlikelyexpat.blogspot.com/2012/02/why-korean-buddhism-is-not-what.html

She went to a Buddhist temple and talked to a monk that she trusted. He had given her good advice before.

And what was the sage advice? Somehow try to peacefully resolve the conflict? Seek mediation with the insane boss?

No. He told her that it was her obligation to do everything the boss wanted all the time. Not only that, but to do more. To work even harder for him to show her obedience and devotion. And to do all that with a smile. He told her she needed to smile all the time and manifest the physical expression of happiness.

Now, on some level it may sound tempting to venerate this advice as some deep mystical wisdom. It is good to smile and try to find happiness in adverse circumstances. And it can be a good thing to turn the other cheek when someone is attacking you.

But basically what the monk was saying amounted to sanctioning labor abuse. Not just sanctioning, but enabling it. The woman was supposed to go back to work, at a job that was totally ruining her mental health, and throw herself joyfully into a career that was breaking her down and making her miserable. For a boss that was hellbent on squeezing more work out of his employees than he had any right to. Because that level of submission is how one achieves true enlightenment.

After I read through the handout the nun came in and gave a talk about the story, and the principles it illustrated. I was so frustrated with the moral lesson she was preaching - submission to abusive authority figures - that I honestly had a hard time listening to her. It reminded me of every sad story I had ever heard from Korean friends, coworkers, and acquaintances.

People are expected to sacrifice so much of themselves so endlessly in Korean culture. Their lives revolve around obligations and duties that most Westerners would find fairly oppressive. Many young people find their choices of schools, majors, partners, spouses, careers, and the like dictated to them by their parents. And after they enter the workforce bosses reign with near-total authority. No one is even allowed to give constructive criticism when the team isn�t working efficiently or productively - which is how my office functions (or doesn�t) every day of the week. Because no one can criticize or disobey someone of higher status. Ever. And this Buddhist nun was telling me that if I wanted to achieve spiritual enlightenment I had to blindly accept all that, submit to the yoke of abusive authority, and try to smile as hard as I could while I grabbed my ankles and waited to be anally penetrated.

Well, if u ever take a shower in the vicinity if your teacher, whatever u do don't drop your soap.

[slothrop]

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[Dave Chance]

^^ +1

Yes, as with other religions the core philosophy is more than worthy, it's when it turns into an organization subject to state mandates that good ideas go astray.

[falco]

[The Cosmic Hum]

[falco]

Damn...time spent replying to posts on Daves can be time consuming!...lol

Ermm....I'm not your 'sweetheart'. Who's being condescending now? Just calling me by my name will be quite sufficient thanks.

You can see my darker side on an internet website? You must truly have greater powers than even the greatest Buddhist master. Yep, I quite often make an ass of myself. No surprise there. I often even surprise myself how much of an ass I can be.

I didnt mean I was making something of myself. That idea faded many years ago....lol. I meant its easy to mock others, like monks for example, who take a somewhat alternative route in life and try to make to make a success of their lives in their chosen profession. I didnt mean people have to share my religion to be a success. Hell... I dont even consider what I believe to be a bloody 'religion'.

For what its worth, I'd be surprised if I came out with something inspiring too!....but I always live in hope....lol.

[The Cosmic Hum]