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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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 Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 5:54 am Post subject: |
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But you're missing the point. (I'm not disagreeing by the way)
The Korean smugness is not that they consider themselves modern,
although it may appear that way. It is that they managed to maintain their
Koreaness in the face of the wave of foreign influences.
Korea takes pride in the fact that they had such a rapid
industrialization process and feel this shows their superiority in some ways.
What they fail to recognize is that is Western money and influence that enabled them in this process.
In their eyes, they may not have invented much, but they do feel that they have adapted things and made them work in a Korean way.
It can be argued that many things in Korea do work better than in the West. (at least for Koreans)
Look at the low crime rates for example. I am not saying I agree with this sentiment,
just that I understand it.
PS: I wonder how Korean society will change if the current no-punishment
in schools policy is allowed to continue. I hope they come to their senses
and bring back corporal punishment. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 3:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Smithington wrote: |
| MHS wrote: |
| [On a side note, I thought the other post mentioning racism was interesting. When will this type of thing change? When will Korea realize that they are trying to emulate Western culture? How did we manage to get pushed to the back of the bus? |
This is one thing that drives me nuts about Korea. Its modernity - in its entirety - is a Western product. Without the West this country would still be in the stone age. It contributed nothing to its own modernity - except learning how to copy the West. They invented nothing, and have contributed nothing to humanity's combined accumulation of knowledge. Not a single invention of note. Not a single nobel prize - not even a nomination. It's all from the West. Yet they engage in demonizing Westerners in Korea, engage in anti-American rhetoric, and generally show incredible ingratitute for all that the West has handed to them....Sometimes I wish I had a magic wand. I'd wave it and return Korea to its pre-Western contact days. Just for one day. That would knock some of the arrogance out of them. |
Actually it was their hard work that contributed to its own modernity the most. There are plenty of other countries that have received money and aid from the West which are still rather 'backwards" to use a non PC term.
Besides which unless someone here contributed something of the above to Korea...Korea doesn't own Westerners anything. And that was about 60 years ago. Get over it.
Plus which it could be argued that Korea "paid" for Western help with the division of their country and millions of their countrymen killed. |
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Smithington
Joined: 14 Dec 2011
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| Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Actually it was their hard work that contributed to its own modernity the most. |
Um, you can work as hard as you want. You're not going to accomplish much with your donkey and water catcher. Western science, technology, and education are what made Korean a modern economy. Not hard work. Without Western contact they could have still worked hard - and got absolutely nowhere (as with their previous 5000 years). Everything they have - everything - is because of the West. You can dance around this fact all you want. After the dance is over, however, you still have to deal with that stubborn fact.
Modern Korea is a Western success story! |
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young_clinton
Joined: 09 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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| This would be worse than the creation of EPIK and GEPIK. More of the same superficial reasons in the selection process, many of the reasons previously mentioned. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Smithington wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Actually it was their hard work that contributed to its own modernity the most. |
Um, you can work as hard as you want. You're not going to accomplish much with your donkey and water catcher. Western science, technology, and education are what made Korean a modern economy. Not hard work. Without Western contact they could have still worked hard - and got absolutely nowhere (as with their previous 5000 years). Everything they have - everything - is because of the West. You can dance around this fact all you want. After the dance is over, however, you still have to deal with that stubborn fact.
Modern Korea is a Western success story! |
Sure the West gave them some help. But hard work is what made them a success story...as compared to most other countries that received even more aid.
Anyone who says different is just trolling. Bye. |
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Smithington
Joined: 14 Dec 2011
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| Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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| some waygug-in wrote: |
Korea takes pride in the fact that they had such a rapid industrialization process and feel this shows their superiority in some ways. |
What a lark! Tell me. How did Korea manage to industrialize faster than the West did? The answer surely should be obvious to anyone with a brain. Western countries had to invent everything as they went along. The industrialization process required that things be invented. That takes time. Korea industrialized faster two centuries later because Westerners had already invented everything for them. Koreans invented none of it. It was handed to them on a silver platter.
They have nothing to be boastful about. The only thing they ever invented was the "copier." |
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goreality
Joined: 09 Jul 2009
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| Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 11:38 pm Post subject: |
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Lol I don't think Koreans are boasting to nations that are already developed about their successes in bench marking. They are feeling superior to the undeveloped nations still in the process.
I don't think their colonial past and divisions make them more deserving of development than any other countries, nearly the entire African continent can make that claim.
If you look into the required tools for successful development Korea had them all.
Just look at how hard poor people work before you claim it just came down to hard work. The poor in developing nations aren't like the welfare people in developed countries, they simply lack opportunity.
Korea had access to credit and foreign markets on a level that was unparalleled to other developing countries. They had a strong and business orientated dictatorship that helped fostered the current business system. I would argue their location, lack of natural resources and political history actually helped them and didn't hinder them. Developing the south became a strategy to avoid them falling into chaos and being absorbed by communism. By the time of the collapse, they were well on their way.
I'm not saying it's unimpressive, I'm just saying the conditions were right unlike in many other developing countries. |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 5:46 am Post subject: |
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| Smithington wrote: |
| some waygug-in wrote: |
Korea takes pride in the fact that they had such a rapid industrialization process and feel this shows their superiority in some ways. |
What a lark! Tell me. How did Korea manage to industrialize faster than the West did? The answer surely should be obvious to anyone with a brain. Western countries had to invent everything as they went along. The industrialization process required that things be invented. That takes time. Korea industrialized faster two centuries later because Westerners had already invented everything for them. Koreans invented none of it. It was handed to them on a silver platter.
They have nothing to be boastful about. The only thing they ever invented was the "copier." |
You seem a bit upset at my post. I wonder if you actually read all of it?
I didn't say I agreed with their sentiments, I was just explaining how they
feel and think. Not agreeing with it at all.
Happy now? |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 8:46 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Smithington wrote: |
| MHS wrote: |
| [On a side note, I thought the other post mentioning racism was interesting. When will this type of thing change? When will Korea realize that they are trying to emulate Western culture? How did we manage to get pushed to the back of the bus? |
This is one thing that drives me nuts about Korea. Its modernity - in its entirety - is a Western product. Without the West this country would still be in the stone age. It contributed nothing to its own modernity - except learning how to copy the West. They invented nothing, and have contributed nothing to humanity's combined accumulation of knowledge. Not a single invention of note. Not a single nobel prize - not even a nomination. It's all from the West. Yet they engage in demonizing Westerners in Korea, engage in anti-American rhetoric, and generally show incredible ingratitute for all that the West has handed to them....Sometimes I wish I had a magic wand. I'd wave it and return Korea to its pre-Western contact days. Just for one day. That would knock some of the arrogance out of them. |
Actually it was their hard work that contributed to its own modernity the most. There are plenty of other countries that have received money and aid from the West which are still rather 'backwards" to use a non PC term.
Besides which unless someone here contributed something of the above to Korea...Korea doesn't own Westerners anything. And that was about 60 years ago. Get over it.
Plus which it could be argued that Korea "paid" for Western help with the division of their country and millions of their countrymen killed. |
Actually, after MacArthur landed at Incheon, Korea was united. But the Chinese decided they wanted a divided Korea and sent in troops to prop up the North Koreans and so the stalemate today. Don't blame the west for the division of your country, blame the Russians and the Chinese (who continue to prop up the North even now).
After the war, America gave lots of aid to Korea. |
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Smithington
Joined: 14 Dec 2011
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| Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 9:50 pm Post subject: |
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^ In response to Urban Myth's silly post, you refer to Korea as "your country". Is Urban Myth Korean? Nothing wrong with that of course, but it would explain an awful lot of his posts. He is, to put it politely, very predictable in his postings and his defence of all things Korean at all times under all circumstances without hesitation or doubt, regardless of the....
You get my point. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 10:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Smithington wrote: |
| ^ In response to Urban Myth's silly post, you refer to Korea as "your country". Is Urban Myth Korean? . |
I never said any such thing. Making up false claims when one can easily scroll back and see who said what is a silly thing to do. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Weigookin74 wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Smithington wrote: |
| MHS wrote: |
| [On a side note, I thought the other post mentioning racism was interesting. When will this type of thing change? When will Korea realize that they are trying to emulate Western culture? How did we manage to get pushed to the back of the bus? |
This is one thing that drives me nuts about Korea. Its modernity - in its entirety - is a Western product. Without the West this country would still be in the stone age. It contributed nothing to its own modernity - except learning how to copy the West. They invented nothing, and have contributed nothing to humanity's combined accumulation of knowledge. Not a single invention of note. Not a single nobel prize - not even a nomination. It's all from the West. Yet they engage in demonizing Westerners in Korea, engage in anti-American rhetoric, and generally show incredible ingratitute for all that the West has handed to them....Sometimes I wish I had a magic wand. I'd wave it and return Korea to its pre-Western contact days. Just for one day. That would knock some of the arrogance out of them. |
Actually it was their hard work that contributed to its own modernity the most. There are plenty of other countries that have received money and aid from the West which are still rather 'backwards" to use a non PC term.
Besides which unless someone here contributed something of the above to Korea...Korea doesn't own Westerners anything. And that was about 60 years ago. Get over it.
Plus which it could be argued that Korea "paid" for Western help with the division of their country and millions of their countrymen killed. |
Actually, after MacArthur landed at Incheon, Korea was united. But the Chinese decided they wanted a divided Korea and sent in troops to prop up the North Koreans and so the stalemate today. Don't blame the west for the division of your country, blame the Russians and the Chinese (who continue to prop up the North even now).
After the war, America gave lots of aid to Korea. |
"Your country"?
What ARE you on about? I am neither Korean or have any Korean ancestry. I'm 100% WASP (to the best of my knowledge).
If America had withdrawn the county would be united...sure it would be under the control of a megalomaniac family...but it would be united.
Korea was the proxy ground for a conflict between the great powers at the time...China and Russia on one side and America on the other...although to be fair Russian aid was limited to mainly things like logistics and some air support.
At least that is the theory in some circles which begs the question what does Korea have exactly to be grateful for that they haven't paid off in one way or another. |
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comm
Joined: 22 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| At least that is the theory in some circles which begs the question what does Korea have exactly to be grateful for that they haven't paid off in one way or another. |
60 years of the best national security force that money can buy. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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| comm wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| At least that is the theory in some circles which begs the question what does Korea have exactly to be grateful for that they haven't paid off in one way or another. |
60 years of the best national security force that money can buy. |
Then they should be grateful to those specific people. They certainly don't own ESL teachers any gratitude. |
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The Sultan of Seoul
Joined: 17 Apr 2012
Location: right... behind.. YOU
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| Posted: Wed May 16, 2012 12:16 am Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Smithington wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Actually it was their hard work that contributed to its own modernity the most. |
Um, you can work as hard as you want. You're not going to accomplish much with your donkey and water catcher. Western science, technology, and education are what made Korean a modern economy. Not hard work. Without Western contact they could have still worked hard - and got absolutely nowhere (as with their previous 5000 years). Everything they have - everything - is because of the West. You can dance around this fact all you want. After the dance is over, however, you still have to deal with that stubborn fact.
Modern Korea is a Western success story! |
Sure the West gave them some help. But hard work is what made them a success story...as compared to most other countries that received even more aid.
Anyone who says different is just trolling. Bye. |
Oh BS. They were forced to make their country in it's current image by the yanks and aided by yank dollars and you know it.
Remember that thing called the Korean war? You think if it weren't for the yanks, this place wouldn't be some socialist hell hole ruled by the Kim clan? You think the yanks ever would have let that happen or let the society take the shape of one any other than what it has become?
Discussion over.
Delusional, you are. Good, it is not for you. |
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