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Tyshine
Joined: 04 Apr 2011
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 Posted: Wed May 16, 2012 10:04 pm Post subject: |
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| 3DR wrote: |
| warmachinenkorea wrote: |
| Otherside wrote: |
| warmachinenkorea wrote: |
| Weigookin74 wrote: |
| If she has a spare period or two why can't she just go to the bank and come back? If I do this to pay some bills, it's never counted as part of my time off. Why is her school being so @n@l? Is it like this over in the Daegu area? |
I can come and go as I please as long as I have my lessons done and back for class. Of course i don't abuse this. If i need to go to the bank then I tell my co-teacher and there's no problem. I've talked to other teachers in my area and some schools are real strict about it. In my first school here I was told I couldn't leave campus even for lunch. Now my teacher comes to me and says "We have no classes this afternoon so you can go home. See you tomorrow." |
If you want it to stay that way, I wouldn't post about it. Next some teachers will be complaining that they have a "friend" who can do this, and EPIK/GEPIK/WhicheverDistrictYouAreUnder will instruct all their schools that teachers are to be on school premises from 8:30-4:30 no matter what. Kinda like the ol' camp/vacation debacle. |
Been at this school for almost 4 years. It's semi-private and they kinda march to their own beat. There's a lot of give and take with us. I don't take advantage of them and they don't take advantage of me. |
Seriously keep it to yourself or you will regret it. |
I heard this was common, until it was ruined by too many people complaining once word got out. |
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YTMND
Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!
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| Posted: Wed May 16, 2012 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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| there is no "free" housing - the costs of housing for a teacher is all part of our salary |
No, it is a perk. You can work without housing, and you can work with housing allowance. You can also work without either. That's between you and your employer or "client".
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| they aren't getting their settlement allowance in a timely manner. |
What do you call it then when an employer pays 5,000-10,000 dollars for a security deposit to get you an apartment and pays for the rent above that amount, along with furnishing the apartment? I would rather they put 300,000 into the apartment total costs to get me a rice cooker, blankets, table, couch (which I have yet to see a school do, I grew up in a house with 5 couches and 4 couch chairs in 3 rooms), and the almighty fridge (not those small dorm room ones either). Then, I would happily expect 300,000 coming my way on the first pay day. Breathe fire then if you don't get it. That's all.
What, would this teacher rather not have 300,000 worth of furnishings and then have to go out and buy the stuff themselves? So far, I am not convinced. I have lived in Asia for 8 years (China, Japan, and Korea). I have never found it in the best interest of the teacher to complain in the beginning of a contract period about something they should get and the school acknowledges it. Especially when it's only 300,000 won.
It's better to wait the first paycheck.
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| if it's in a contract, then that's all there is to it. it's not like a freakin' tip or something |
Yes it is in the contract they are owed it, the school is not denying that they owe it. Now what?
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you're the stingy one for demanding to be paid what's promised in your contract! How unreasonable!
Seriously, have you ever worked a day anywhere in the world? |
Again, look back review. It helps. The school never denied owing the money. Crying over 300,000 which you will get eventually is not worth babying over. Enough said. I would think "worldly" workers would understand this concept.
Last edited by YTMND on Thu May 17, 2012 1:10 am; edited 1 time in total |
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luckylady
Joined: 30 Jan 2012
Location: u.s. of occupied territories
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| Posted: Wed May 16, 2012 11:06 pm Post subject: |
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| YTMND wrote: |
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| there is no "free" housing - the costs of housing for a teacher is all part of our salary |
No, it is a perk. You can work without housing, and you can work with housing allowance. You can also work without either. That's between you and your employer or "client".
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no, it is NOT a perk. I'm starting to doubt you've ever worked anywhere in your life, much less in Asia.
do you even know what a perk is? it's free tkts to the theatre, or museums in the city where you live, paid lunch, that sort of thing. some American employers provide commuter "checks" which employees can use for transit fares on buses and trains. that's a perk.
Korea - and many other places who hire expat teachers - provide housing out of the necessity that there wouldn't be any other way to recruit those teachers otherwise. |
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luckylady
Joined: 30 Jan 2012
Location: u.s. of occupied territories
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| Posted: Wed May 16, 2012 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Yes some/many schools are lax or permissive...but some schools go strictly by the book. She got a strict school is all but they are not violating the contract...not based on the info in the OP's post. |
I seriously doubt there's anything in the contract about her having to take a personal day to set up a bank account.
I also seriously doubt the Korean teachers have to take personal days to make a run to their banks - most, if not all, public schools allow for all teachers to sign out when they leave the school premises and sign back in when they return, including if they leave during their lunch hours.
OP, doesn't your gf get off at 4:30? she should try and make it over to a bank directly afterwards. I've been in banks several times with business that took time past closing; they will finish business with their customers before shutting the doors - they just don't let new customers in a 5 (or whenever closing time is.) Some even close late on certain days - try and find out the hours in her school's neighborhood. |
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YTMND
Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!
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| Posted: Thu May 17, 2012 1:15 am Post subject: |
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| no, it is NOT a perk. I'm starting to doubt you've ever worked anywhere in your life, much less in Asia. |
Ask yourself that. Have you worked in Japan? Do they normally pay for your apartment? I am not saying it is impossible.
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| do you even know what a perk is? it's free tkts to the theatre, or museums in the city where you live, paid lunch, that sort of thing. |
WRONG. A perk can be other things. Here is an example:
http://www.ehow.com/info_8761739_settlement-allowance.html (What a coincidence!! We were just talking about settlement allowance, and in Korea too, my oh my.)
They used the word "benefits", if that is what you are griping about then just change it, but google has no problem using perks and benefits synonymously.
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| Korea - and many other places |
What other places? Show us, make me eat crow. China doesn't do this settlement stuff. And they don't usually give as good reimbursement for airfare. Those are just 2 perks an experienced teacher would know about. |
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NYC_Gal 2.0
Joined: 10 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Thu May 17, 2012 2:06 am Post subject: |
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Look, these things that you consider perks are just part of the salary package, but divided into different categories. I opted for the housing stipend, because I like having my own apartment. It's part of my salary. It's a benefit, just as health insurance and pension are. I had health insurance, profit sharing, and pension funds back home, as well as a set limit of money for business purchases. They were perks, but they were all negotiated when I was hired. I considered them part of my salary. Had I not had these things, I'd have gone for a much higher salary than what I had. I was actually given the choice, but I chose to compartmentalize them, in order to help me save and plan more efficiently. It's all semantics. If it's given to you for your work, it's not free, no matter how job postings and recruiters phrase it.
Your apartment or housing stipend isn't free. You work for it. The settlement allowance isn't free. You work for it. The flights aren't free. You work for them. My husband actually doesn't get a housing stipend or settlement allowance. He just gets a higher salary. It's the same thing. Stop spouting this drivel that these things are free. They aren't. |
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YTMND
Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!
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| Posted: Thu May 17, 2012 2:44 am Post subject: |
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| I considered them part of my salary. Had I not had these things |
Sounds like someone has been drinking the paranoid juicy juicy.
The school agrees they owe it. Wait till the first friggin pay day will ya? Are you that greedy?
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| Had I not had these things, I'd have gone for a much higher salary |
Which you wouldn't get until your :::drum roll::: first pay day.
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| Your apartment or housing stipend isn't free. You work for it. |
Convince your home country of that "pilgrim".
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| The settlement allowance isn't free. You work for it. |
So, work for it, and then get your first month's pay. What is so hard to understand about this?
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| My husband actually doesn't get a housing stipend or settlement allowance. |
Hmm, sounds like it isn't a norm then huh Norm?
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| Stop spouting this drivel that these things are free. |
It was never stated they are "free" in your imaginary world. It was stated to wait for first pay. Reread, comprehend. It helps. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Thu May 17, 2012 3:01 am Post subject: |
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| luckylady wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Yes some/many schools are lax or permissive...but some schools go strictly by the book. She got a strict school is all but they are not violating the contract...not based on the info in the OP's post. |
I seriously doubt there's anything in the contract about her having to take a personal day to set up a bank account.
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I also seriously doubt there's anything in the contract about her NOT having to take a personal day to set up a bank account.
Bottom line: If it is not stated or implied in the contract it is usually up to the school/employer's discrection. Yes it sucks that her school is being "anal". No they are not doing anything flat-out illegal that I can tell |
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NYC_Gal 2.0
Joined: 10 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Thu May 17, 2012 5:21 am Post subject: |
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| YTMND wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I considered them part of my salary. Had I not had these things |
Sounds like someone has been drinking the paranoid juicy juicy.
The school agrees they owe it. Wait till the first friggin pay day will ya? Are you that greedy?
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| Had I not had these things, I'd have gone for a much higher salary |
Which you wouldn't get until your :::drum roll::: first pay day.
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| Your apartment or housing stipend isn't free. You work for it. |
Convince your home country of that "pilgrim".
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| The settlement allowance isn't free. You work for it. |
So, work for it, and then get your first month's pay. What is so hard to understand about this?
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| My husband actually doesn't get a housing stipend or settlement allowance. |
Hmm, sounds like it isn't a norm then huh Norm?
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| Stop spouting this drivel that these things are free. |
It was never stated they are "free" in your imaginary world. It was stated to wait for first pay. Reread, comprehend. It helps. |
Have you been hitting the sauce a bit early?
1. How is considering these things salary "paranoid juicy juicy"? What the heck does that even mean?
2. My accountant back home factors my housing stipend, flight money, and other perks into my taxes, so yes, it is counted as salary, "pardner."
3. You're the one talking about a time table. I never once mentioned that the settlement allowance had to be paid immediately. I just said that it is part of the salary package. Now, I will defend those who say it should be given early on. I was lucky my first year here, and received an envelope my second day, in order to set up house. It's called a settlement allowance so that people can settle in. What's the point of making someone wait up to 6 weeks for their first paycheck? Not everyone is fortunate enough to have brought a few thousand dollars to set up. I did, but there are plenty of people coming here to pay off loans that don't have that luxury. At least change the name from settlement allowance (which implies that it's used to set up house�you know, buying a few pots and pans, some dishes and cutlery, groceries, bedding, possibly some furniture) to "starting bonus" or something. It's not being greedy.
You're lecturing ME on critical reading skills? |
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YTMND
Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!
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| Posted: Thu May 17, 2012 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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| How is considering these things salary "paranoid juicy juicy"? |
It means worrying about not getting paid before your first pay date is rather excessive. We use the word "paranoid" to describe this behavior.
What will a person do about the other 11 pay dates? Yes, it sure is paranoia.
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| My accountant back home factors my housing stipend, flight money, and other perks into my taxes, so yes, it is counted as salary, "pardner." |
That's interesting, then that makes a stronger argument that the employee should wait until the agreed pay date to receive their "salary". You just argued my case.
Also, what your accountant does or doesn't do in your home country has nothing to do with what Korea does. You can't enforce laws (if there were other laws influencing this accountant's actions) in one country on another country.
Read up please, "Perquisite means a gain or profit made incidentally from employment in addition to the regular salary or wages. Perquisite is taxable under the head salary only if it is allowed by an employer to his employee in the course of employment and results in some personal advantage to the employee." - http://www.rediff.com/money/2006/dec/04tax.htm
Regular salary wouldn't include these perks.
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| I never once mentioned that the settlement allowance had to be paid immediately. |
The original poster appears to want the settlement allowance earlier than reasonable. A few other posters seem to share in this position. If you aren't one of those, then just move on. Feel free to give your position if you want.
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| What's the point of making someone wait up to 6 weeks for their first paycheck? Not everyone is fortunate enough to have brought a few thousand dollars to set up. |
See how much of an exaggeration that is? If a few thousand dollars were necessary, then how is a lowly 300,000 won settlement allowance going to achieve that? You would still need more, at least 2,700,000 won. Why don't you just use a credit card and then pay back after your first pay? Sounds simple and wise. In the end you still get it.
When you apply for financial aid at colleges, they often still require you to pay full tuition around the time of the registration period. You get the actual financial aid later on in the school year. So, the idea behind financial aid is not to help you pay when you don't have the money at all. It's to help you manage your savings.
If you don't have savings to manage, then maybe you shouldn't be going to school (depending on them at least) or the other side of the world with only a 300,000 won promise.
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| You're lecturing ME on critical reading skills? |
No, I think you read fine. Your practical use of what you read seems to be unrealistic.
That 300,000 won settlement allowance could easily be erased by the school not providing 1 or 2 of the furnishings in the apartment. The teacher could get the 300,000 and then have to go out and buy stuff on their own. This again addresses money management.
You should try to get whatever you can and hold out on the contractual obligations of the school. You will get more in the end.
When you have savings (in this case a simple credit card would solve the trick), then you don't need the 300,000 won immediately. You can later get the money on your first pay date. The rest of the world knows how to do this. I suggest you and anyone else with similar viewpoints look into this. |
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NYC_Gal 2.0
Joined: 10 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Thu May 17, 2012 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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| YTMND wrote: |
It means worrying about not getting paid before your first pay date is rather excessive. We use the word "paranoid" to describe this behavior.
What will a person do about the other 11 pay dates? Yes, it sure is paranoia. |
I wasn't worrying about the pay date in my earlier posts. I was just stating that the perks aren't free, as some posters had said.
| YTMND wrote: |
| That's interesting, then that makes a stronger argument that the employee should wait until the agreed pay date to receive their "salary". You just argued my case. |
Nope. When I got cash for business expenses, I was whenever it was needed. I was meeting a photographer for lunch? I got the company credit card that day. I was going to a sample sale to get some clothes for a shoot? I got cash (many sample sales only took cash.) I was working later than the last train home (when I lived outside of the city)? I got cash for a car home (part of my contractual agreement.) I didn't have to wait until payday.
| YTMND wrote: |
| Also, what your accountant does or doesn't do in your home country has nothing to do with what Korea does. You can't enforce laws (if there were other laws because of this accountant's actions) in one country on another country. |
Actually, I referenced my accountant at home because you were the one who brought up my home country. I said "Your apartment or housing stipend isn't free. You work for it." and you said:
| YTMND wrote: |
| Convince your home country of that "pilgrim". |
| YTMND wrote: |
Read up please, "Perquisite means a gain or profit made incidentally from employment in addition to the regular salary or wages. Perquisite is taxable under the head salary only if it is allowed by an employer to his employee in the course of employment and results in some personal advantage to the employee." - http://www.rediff.com/money/2006/dec/04tax.htm
Regular salary wouldn't include these perks. |
It may not be regular salary, but it is part of our salary package, nonetheless. Semantics, my dear.
| YTMND wrote: |
| See how much of an exaggeration that is? If a few thousand dollars were necessary, then how is 300,000 won going to achieve that? You would still need more. |
I didn't need much of the few thousand. I was just fortunate to have it at my disposal, in case of emergency. I probably spent about 500,000 won in my first two weeks just setting up house, and I was far from finished. 300,000 won sure does make a difference if you don't have it.
| YTMND wrote: |
| When you apply for financial aid at colleges, they often still require you to pay full tuition before the registration date. You get the actual financial aid later on in the year. So, the idea behind financial aid is not to help you pay when you don't have the money at all. It's to help you manage your savings. |
I wouldn't know about financial aid. I worked a full-time job (and two freelance part time jobs as a copyeditor and tutor) and had a partial scholarship, as well as savings from having worked in high school.
| YTMND wrote: |
| If you don't have savings to manage, then maybe you shouldn't be going to school (depending on them at least) or the other side of the world with only a 300,000 won promise. |
It's way more than a promise. Some people depend on it. It's called a settlement allowance. If they want to change the name, so that it doesn't imply that it's for use during the settlement time (you know, those first few weeks) then that's fine. Until then, it should be given in a timely manner. That's not greedy. That's practical.
| YTMND wrote: |
| No, I think you read fine. Your practical use of what you read seems to be unrealistic. |
We'll have to agree to disagree. I think that you're being purposefully obtuse.
| YTMND wrote: |
That 300,000 won settlement allowance could easily be erased by the school not providing 1 or 2 of the furnishings in the apartment.
The teacher could get the 300,000 and then have to go out and buy stuff on their own. This again address money management. |
Well, not the furnishings stated in the contract, but sure. If they rewrite the contract, of course. That's how contracts work. As it is at present, we get both furnishings (good or bad) and a settlement allowance.
| YTMND wrote: |
| When you have savings, then you don't need the 300,000. You can save it, and then later get the money. The rest of the world knows how to do this. I suggest you and anyone else with similar viewpoints look into this. |
Again, I came here with thousands in cash, in the event of an emergency. I do, however, have friends who came here with next-to nothing, were in debt up to their eyeballs, and could barely afford rice and eggs for their first few weeks, due to their schools d*cking around with getting them what was promised.
Not everyone is as lucky as I was to have the savings to be able to come here with no worries about buying groceries/basic kitchen supplies for a month and a half. That 300,000 can go a long way for some.
Either way, I'm through explaining this to you. It's like lecturing my dog on why trying to drink water from a dirty puddle isn't a good idea. He just isn't going to get it, so I just tug his leash to pull him away. Adieu. |
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YTMND
Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!
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| Posted: Thu May 17, 2012 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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| I got the company credit card that day. |
I see, so long as it is someone else's credit card, you understand money management?
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| I didn't have to wait until payday. |
This school is most likely not giving the teacher a credit card either. You are comparing 2 very different things, even in the same country.
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| It may not be regular salary, but it is part of our salary package, nonetheless. Semantics, my dear. |
The topic is when you should get your settlement allowance. If you were using the label "salary" to argue for immediate transfer of those funds, then I was showing where I disagreed. That's why I referenced the site. Again, I don't really see you state your position. We are bickering about side issues.
Do you think the original poster should get a settlement allowance before their first pay date? Stick to the topic (both of us).
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| It's way more than a promise. Some people depend on it. It's called a settlement allowance. If they want to change the name, so that it doesn't imply that it's for use during the settlement time (you know, those first few weeks) then that's fine. Until then, it should be given in a timely manner. That's not greedy. That's practical. |
If you depend on 300,000 won, that is like an unemployed person with no money depending on welfare checks to get their next hit of ____ (add whatever drug you want). This is not very smart to come to Korea with only a promise (yes it is a promise) of 300,000 won. If you really need it, YEA, it's a P-R-O-M-I-S-E
If you have savings though, it's a contractual obligation and you will still get it. Calling it a "settlement" allowance doesn't mean you get it when you arrive. It's nice if the employer does give it early on, but the settlement allowance is money you WILL get. It doesn't state when you will get it. In one EPIK contract I read, it did include providing the settlement allowance before the the first pay. However, I would suggest not fighting it until the first pay date. There really is no good out of problems early on in the contract period. Make sure you have enough for 1.5 months, get paid and then see where things lie. If you don't get it after the first month's pay, then cause a stink.
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| Well, not the furnishings stated in the contract, but sure. If they rewrite the contract, of course. That's how contracts work. |
Even the furnishings stated in the contract. You can't just barge into a school like the US military going in to get Osama and demand a couch, TV, or rice cooker. The school can make it harder on you to get what you want. If you complain to labor board upon arrival, they are NOT going to come to your rescue because there is no table near the kitchen or a bed mattress is missing.
These are significant annoyances that would NOT be enough to take legal action on. I am saying, use common sense here.
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| As it is at present, we get both furnishings (good or bad) and a settlement allowance. |
Glad you brought that up. The condition of the furnishings can be worse if you get your settlement allowance. Since the school would have less money to work with. Not a lot, but if they have to give this to every teacher, then they will be looking for the cheapest things to give teachers.
If the teacher puts in 1 month's work, then well, that should translate into more money for everyone.
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| could barely afford rice and eggs for their first few weeks, due to their schools d*cking around with getting them what was promised. |
Ok, so you do admit it is a promise. Good. Now, how about the credit card solution? Buy what you need, don't splurge and on pay day you will get salary plus settlement allowance.
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| That 300,000 can go a long way for some. |
Yes, it can. I didn't go to Korea with much either. However, I brought with me a credit card and a debit card from back home. I spent about the same as a settlement allowance. I could have used the credit card if necessary.
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| It's like lecturing my dog on why trying to drink water from a dirty puddle isn't a good idea. He just isn't going to get it, so I just tug his leash to pull him away. |
And for me, it's like telling a dog to stop pissing into the wind. You'll get your first pay, just wait until your first pay date. Bring a credit card, you'll be fine. |
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warmachinenkorea
Joined: 12 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Thu May 17, 2012 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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There is no arguing this fact with YTMND.
He thinks we all sign a contract for our salary and when we arrive in Korea the hagwons or public schools say, "Hey, we'll give you a place to stay and a settlement allowance. How's that sound? In return we expect you to do some extra work and a few other things for it."
He doesn't seem to grasp the concept that many people come to Korea because they offer, not only a salary but, flights, housing, insurance, pension and vacation.
He brings ups working in our home countries like we left the comforts, security, familiar surroundings, family, and friends to come to Korea. We should treat living and working here exactly like we would at home.
Housing, pension, insurance, flights, settlement allowance, and severance are all part of the package.
How many of us would stay here if those things weren't in the contract? |
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YTMND
Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!
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| Posted: Thu May 17, 2012 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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| In return we expect you to do some extra work and a few other things for it. |
Which is paid monthly. Did you miss that part?
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| He doesn't seem to grasp the concept that many people come to Korea because they offer, not only a salary but, flights, housing, insurance, pension and vacation. |
How exactly do I not grasp that concept because I am willing to wait until my first pay date? That's why it's called the FIRST pay date.
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| He brings ups working in our home countries |
Actually, other posters brought it up first. I replied to the context of their examples.
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| Housing, pension, insurance, flights, settlement allowance, and severance are all part of the package. |
That was never in dispute. The question was WHEN to receive the settlement allowance.
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| How many of us would stay here if those things weren't in the contract? |
You think that by me waiting 1 month to get the settlement allowance it magically disappears from the contract and the school is no longer obligated to provide the settlement allowance? I never stated people shouldn't get it. I am stating that we should wait until the FIRST pay date. Go back, reread. |
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Tyshine
Joined: 04 Apr 2011
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| Posted: Thu May 17, 2012 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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| I can't believe someone is still arguing about the timing of the settlement allowance. While I think it should be paid early that was never the issue. We have enough money to get by just fine, and if it was that bad we have credit cards. We were more upset about how her school is treating her. They not only said she has to take a personal day to set up an account, but her coteacher most go with her during school hours. That was always the issue and its even been pointed out by others on here that this was the issue. Why some guy is arguing for worse treatment of employees is beyond me. Why even argue with a guy like that? |
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