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Dave Chance
Joined: 30 May 2011
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 Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 7:21 am Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| motiontodismiss wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
Curious to see how these two countries will deal with this ageing population issue. |
Korea will just release a bunch of propaganda encouraging people to have kids or import more Southeast Asians, most likely. |
We live in Ontario and there is some support for young families but across the border in Quebec they took this a lot further and it did spark what they called a mini-birth boom. My friend who lives in Montreal has a child with his Korean wife. They got a lot of support from the government. Daycare is 7$ per day (waiting list however), they also get 100$ per month from the Federal Government and based on their family income they get something like 250$ per month from Fed and Prov government. On top of that they get tax breaks for lots of things like daycare costs, sports activities for their kids and so on. At the end of the year it adds up! Also, she (his wife) got 50 weeks of paid maternity leave (70% of income for the first 20-some weeks and then 55% till the end), he got 5-weeks of paternal leave at 75% of his income.
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Good things can happen when people receive genuine support |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 9:14 am Post subject: |
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| Dave Chance wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| motiontodismiss wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
Curious to see how these two countries will deal with this ageing population issue. |
Korea will just release a bunch of propaganda encouraging people to have kids or import more Southeast Asians, most likely. |
We live in Ontario and there is some support for young families but across the border in Quebec they took this a lot further and it did spark what they called a mini-birth boom. My friend who lives in Montreal has a child with his Korean wife. They got a lot of support from the government. Daycare is 7$ per day (waiting list however), they also get 100$ per month from the Federal Government and based on their family income they get something like 250$ per month from Fed and Prov government. On top of that they get tax breaks for lots of things like daycare costs, sports activities for their kids and so on. At the end of the year it adds up! Also, she (his wife) got 50 weeks of paid maternity leave (70% of income for the first 20-some weeks and then 55% till the end), he got 5-weeks of paternal leave at 75% of his income.
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Good things can happen when people receive genuine support |
Sure but it does have a cost. In this case it means highest taxes in North America (Quebec). Nothing is free. |
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Dave Chance
Joined: 30 May 2011
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| Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 9:50 am Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| Dave Chance wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| motiontodismiss wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
Curious to see how these two countries will deal with this ageing population issue. |
Korea will just release a bunch of propaganda encouraging people to have kids or import more Southeast Asians, most likely. |
We live in Ontario and there is some support for young families but across the border in Quebec they took this a lot further and it did spark what they called a mini-birth boom. My friend who lives in Montreal has a child with his Korean wife. They got a lot of support from the government. Daycare is 7$ per day (waiting list however), they also get 100$ per month from the Federal Government and based on their family income they get something like 250$ per month from Fed and Prov government. On top of that they get tax breaks for lots of things like daycare costs, sports activities for their kids and so on. At the end of the year it adds up! Also, she (his wife) got 50 weeks of paid maternity leave (70% of income for the first 20-some weeks and then 55% till the end), he got 5-weeks of paternal leave at 75% of his income.
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Good things can happen when people receive genuine support |
Sure but it does have a cost. In this case it means highest taxes in North America (Quebec). Nothing is free. |
Ya gotta give to get. |
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motiontodismiss
Joined: 18 Dec 2011
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| Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| motiontodismiss wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
Curious to see how these two countries will deal with this ageing population issue. |
Korea will just release a bunch of propaganda encouraging people to have kids or import more Southeast Asians, most likely. |
Possible that the government puts forth policies to increase procreation. They would not be the first government to try! All sorts of measures can be proposed to potential parents from tax-breaks to financial help to cheaper daycare. These are all valid measures if a government wishes to encourage a higher birth rate. Still, the trend will be hard to reverse.
In fact the K-government has alreadry implemented and tried to enact policies to encourage more births:
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As much as I'd love to think it IS possible to reverse, I think this trend won't reverse until the population goes down to some sustainable level. And any effort on the government's part to convince people to have more kids will fall on deaf ears. I personally know quite a few Korean friends who can never be convinced to procreate regardless of the support given i.e. made up their mind to never have kids.
IMO Korea has way too many people and the population should go down. Down to something like 10 or 20 million. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Wed May 16, 2012 1:20 pm Post subject: |
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Population going down to 10-20 million in Korea would be catastrophic....and it won`t happen unless a major disaster hits the country.
Lets not make too much of urban density. The issue in Korea is not the number of people living there but rather the age pyramid or the demographic breakdown by age group.
Korean families are having fewer kids or one or none at all. The reasons for this are numerous and include financial pressures (increased cost of living), changes in the status and level of education of women....this is typical of a modernizing and increasingly wealthy nation. So, down the road Korea will have to deal with the issue of increased immigration if it wishes to remain economically competitive.
Either that or unification happens. |
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motiontodismiss
Joined: 18 Dec 2011
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| Posted: Wed May 16, 2012 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
Population going down to 10-20 million in Korea would be catastrophic....and it won`t happen unless a major disaster hits the country.
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I disagree. That's all that this tiny country can sustain. There could be problems while the population is declining to that level, but once it's there I don't see any economic disaster happening. You can't reverse the decline of the population until the fundamental problem of overpopulation is resolved. |
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Spartacist
Joined: 18 Feb 2012
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| Posted: Thu May 17, 2012 2:57 pm Post subject: Re: Japanese going extinct! |
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| ontheway wrote: |
Transition to a lower population level that is sustainable may be desireable. It doesn't have to be an economic problem at all. Only our socialistic governments cause population adjustments to be financially painful because of their foolish, deleterious policies. If we change to a free market system, every individual will be able to make the adjustment without the government imposed costs.
In a free market we would hit the optimum population level based on the rational decision making of each individual. The aggregate of those decisions will represent the optimum outcome.
However, under our socialist system, there is no way for anyone to make the "best" choice, no way for individuals to make decisions based on the facts because of the socialized elements and creation of socialized externalities, so no one can determine the best choice nor the optimum level. As a result, the socialized aggregate diverges widely from the optimum due to the impossibility of rational decisionmaking. |
China's doing a pretty good job of reducing their population through state planning though. |
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motiontodismiss
Joined: 18 Dec 2011
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| Posted: Thu May 17, 2012 3:41 pm Post subject: Re: Japanese going extinct! |
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| Spartacist wrote: |
| ontheway wrote: |
Transition to a lower population level that is sustainable may be desireable. It doesn't have to be an economic problem at all. Only our socialistic governments cause population adjustments to be financially painful because of their foolish, deleterious policies. If we change to a free market system, every individual will be able to make the adjustment without the government imposed costs.
In a free market we would hit the optimum population level based on the rational decision making of each individual. The aggregate of those decisions will represent the optimum outcome.
However, under our socialist system, there is no way for anyone to make the "best" choice, no way for individuals to make decisions based on the facts because of the socialized elements and creation of socialized externalities, so no one can determine the best choice nor the optimum level. As a result, the socialized aggregate diverges widely from the optimum due to the impossibility of rational decisionmaking. |
China's doing a pretty good job of reducing their population through state planning though. |
It's one of the only things I'll admit that China's doing well lol. China would have been a disaster economically speaking if all of its citizens reproduced with reckless abandon. Perhaps a one-child policy is what Korea needs. You can't keep growing the pie forever-that means to get a bigger slice you need to reduce the number of people eating it. |
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