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alongway
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
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 Posted: Sat May 19, 2012 11:45 pm Post subject: |
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| sml7285 wrote: |
| wishfullthinkng wrote: |
| sml7285 wrote: |
| amoonbot wrote: |
| And yes, you can get military exemption, so that won't be an issue (although you might want to make sure since you were actually born in Korea). |
I'm an American-born dual citizen (Parents were Korean nationals when I was born and have since become naturalized US citizens.) and when I was looking at job offers in Korea, I asked around about getting a military exemption. Pretty much what I was told was that the only way any Korean male citizen (regardless of place of birth, foreign nationality, etc.) would be exempt from military service would be if he had suffered some sort of major injury that would prevent him from going through basic training - things like a torn ACL/MCL, loss of a limb, etc.
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this is not true. many young guys at my company work there instead of going to the military. if you are very skilled in a certain field you can work for a handful of well established and respected companies instead of going to the military. i think korea's thinking is that they'd rather not lose brilliant minds and have them dulled in the military if they are willing to work for a company that will make korea "better". |
And how wealthy are their parents exactly? Trust me - I've exhausted every single avenue when looking for a military exemption. I have nearly perfect SAT scores, attend (will graduate in three weeks) a top research university and have had my research work published as an undergraduate. Yet with these qualifications, I did not qualify for a military exemption.
My cousin who attended Yonsei and had issues with flat feet also didn't qualify for military exemption. He is extremely bright and had a legitimate medical reason for an exemption and yet didn't get one.
I'm not sure where you work, so I don't know the type of employees your company hires, but unless they are sons of politicians/chaebols, I'd be extremely shocked that they were able to get a military exemption for just being "very skilled in a certain field." |
They're not given military exemptions. They're given alternative service. My friend got one. He's an aerospace engineer who did some very high end experimentation and work for his masters. His service was to work for a company for 3 years, he just finished. He still had to go to basic training for 1 month, but that was it. |
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donathanlee
Joined: 19 Jan 2012
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 2:34 am Post subject: |
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| amoonbot wrote: |
What pkjh said is true about the age change. If you were born BEFORE May 1988, then it doesn't matter whether or not your parents were Korean citizens at the time. As long as you show proof that you are a descendant of a Korean citizen, you are eligible for an F-4 Visa.
Now, judging by your age, you were obviously born after 1988, which, unfortunately, does not qualify you for an F-4 Visa. I'm not sure why immigration decided to do this because it singles out a lot of future gyopos coming to Korea. The only way you'd be eligible for an F-4 Visa is if your father was a U.S. citizen at the time of your birth.
Now, if you still want to work in Korea, you still can. The only thing is that you wouldn't come to Korea on any visa but you'd have to actually register for dual citizenship. And yes, you can get military exemption, so that won't be an issue (although you might want to make sure since you were actually born in Korea).
What you'd have to do is apply for a Korean passport at your nearest consulate and you'd be put on the hojuk (family registry). When you come to Korea, you'd be considered a full Korean citizen and although it wouldn't affect your current U.S. citizenship, during your time of stay in Korea, you are subject to Korea's laws as any Korean citizen would. The biggest disadvantage of having dual citizenship is the difficulty of getting a job as an ESL teacher. Most public schools don't hire dual citizens because (1) They think of you as a Korean more than a foreigner OR (2) It could get complicated with visa issues OR (3) Both.
Your best bet would be to look into hagwons that take dual citizens or aim for a Korean company job. It really depends what kind of job you want and how long you want stay in Korea. If you plan on a one year trip then I don't recommend the hassle. However, if you plan on staying here for awhile, it may be worth it. Hope this helps. |
Thank you for the information. This cleared many things up. I would like to know what conditions need to be met for Korean males with similar conditions as me to be granted a military exemption. Will they consider my living in the States for over 19 years? If not, does one need to have a physical disability?
The strange thing is, searching for information on how to apply for an F-4 visa doesn't mention the May 1988 stipulation. Is there a reason why many sources for information (including the consulate websites) do not state this? |
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amoonbot
Joined: 29 Jul 2009
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 2:40 am Post subject: |
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If you give a call to the military offices in Korea or immigration, you can definitely get an exemption, especially if you were born in another country and continually lived there for a long period of time. Unfortunately, the way Korea is, you will get different answers from the same government entity.
You really have to look at your case individually. It looks like the OP may be eligible for military exemption due to the sole fact that he was born in Korea and held a green card for a few years. Although he became a naturalized U.S. citizen, he still had Korean citizenship all those years and most likely still does. While Korea won't do anything when he is in another country, coming back to Korea may trigger a military obligation. I would contact the military office or immigration office directly and give them a clear explanation of your situation. Also, call at least three different people to get a more clear answer. Sometimes, you won't get the best answer.
To those who were born overseas and lived there for most of their lives, they are exempt. If you were put on the hojuk though, you may run into some issues. However, I have heard many cases where due to the fact that they were born and raised in another country, the Korea government took them off the hojuk and granted them exemption.
As far as the information about the date change goes, a lot of times, they don't put up these updates and surprise you at the end. It's really shitty but can't be helped. Anyways, the best of luck to you! |
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sml7285
Joined: 26 Apr 2012
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 5:24 am Post subject: |
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| alongway wrote: |
| sml7285 wrote: |
| wishfullthinkng wrote: |
| sml7285 wrote: |
| amoonbot wrote: |
| And yes, you can get military exemption, so that won't be an issue (although you might want to make sure since you were actually born in Korea). |
I'm an American-born dual citizen (Parents were Korean nationals when I was born and have since become naturalized US citizens.) and when I was looking at job offers in Korea, I asked around about getting a military exemption. Pretty much what I was told was that the only way any Korean male citizen (regardless of place of birth, foreign nationality, etc.) would be exempt from military service would be if he had suffered some sort of major injury that would prevent him from going through basic training - things like a torn ACL/MCL, loss of a limb, etc.
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this is not true. many young guys at my company work there instead of going to the military. if you are very skilled in a certain field you can work for a handful of well established and respected companies instead of going to the military. i think korea's thinking is that they'd rather not lose brilliant minds and have them dulled in the military if they are willing to work for a company that will make korea "better". |
And how wealthy are their parents exactly? Trust me - I've exhausted every single avenue when looking for a military exemption. I have nearly perfect SAT scores, attend (will graduate in three weeks) a top research university and have had my research work published as an undergraduate. Yet with these qualifications, I did not qualify for a military exemption.
My cousin who attended Yonsei and had issues with flat feet also didn't qualify for military exemption. He is extremely bright and had a legitimate medical reason for an exemption and yet didn't get one.
I'm not sure where you work, so I don't know the type of employees your company hires, but unless they are sons of politicians/chaebols, I'd be extremely shocked that they were able to get a military exemption for just being "very skilled in a certain field." |
They're not given military exemptions. They're given alternative service. My friend got one. He's an aerospace engineer who did some very high end experimentation and work for his masters. His service was to work for a company for 3 years, he just finished. He still had to go to basic training for 1 month, but that was it. |
I'm not really familiar with the alternative service, but I don't think the OP was asking for or would qualify for an alternative service (I'm assuming a professional level of Korean would be required along with other skills).
Many things changed with the passing of the 2010 Nationality Law Revision. A cousin of mine who's in law school told me that it was passed to prevent mainly to prevent males from renouncing their Korean citizenship until after they had served their two years. This was a bill 10 years in the making since Steve Yoo fled Korea and became a naturalized US citizen. |
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alongway
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 5:27 am Post subject: |
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| sml7285 wrote: |
I'm not really familiar with the alternative service, but I don't think the OP was asking for or would qualify for an alternative service (I'm assuming a professional level of Korean would be required along with other skills).
Many things changed with the passing of the 2010 Nationality Law Revision. A cousin of mine who's in law school told me that it was passed to prevent mainly to prevent males from renouncing their Korean citizenship until after they had served their two years. This was a bill 10 years in the making since Steve Yoo fled Korea and became a naturalized US citizen. |
I know he wasn't originally. But the conversation evolved to talk about people who were working in a company instead of going to the military. There seemed to be some confusion over terminology. It was referred to as an exemption, when that situation is alternative service. |
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sml7285
Joined: 26 Apr 2012
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 5:53 am Post subject: |
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| alongway wrote: |
| sml7285 wrote: |
I'm not really familiar with the alternative service, but I don't think the OP was asking for or would qualify for an alternative service (I'm assuming a professional level of Korean would be required along with other skills).
Many things changed with the passing of the 2010 Nationality Law Revision. A cousin of mine who's in law school told me that it was passed to prevent mainly to prevent males from renouncing their Korean citizenship until after they had served their two years. This was a bill 10 years in the making since Steve Yoo fled Korea and became a naturalized US citizen. |
I know he wasn't originally. But the conversation evolved to talk about people who were working in a company instead of going to the military. There seemed to be some confusion over terminology. It was referred to as an exemption, when that situation is alternative service. |
Yeah I know. I guess my advice to the OP is to not expect options outside of conscription. By all means look around and ask around, but don't expect to be given a waiver for alternative service or and exemption.
Having been born in Korea, your name is almost definitely in your family's hojuk, and even if you renounced your Korean citizenship upon naturalization in Canada, there's a chance that the renunciation was nullified with the passing of the 2010 Naturalization Law Revision. (Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer, but my cousin is in law school in Korea and this is what he got out of case studies.) |
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wishfullthinkng
Joined: 05 Mar 2010
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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| alongway wrote: |
They're not given military exemptions. They're given alternative service. My friend got one. He's an aerospace engineer who did some very high end experimentation and work for his masters. His service was to work for a company for 3 years, he just finished. He still had to go to basic training for 1 month, but that was it. |
yes, it's not an exemption. they must work at the same company for however long they were supposed to serve in the military, so if they end up at a crappy company it could theoretically be as bad as serving in the military. the military guys even have to clock in and out every time they enter or leave the premises. they have to be at work by a certain time and leave at a certain time, whereas i can come and go as i please (or as long as i don't raise the ire of my superiors). these are highly specialized fields that the military guys are working for though. the wealth of their parents have nothing to do with it. i'm sure the extremely wealthy have other avenues they can take. |
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dsun1226
Joined: 27 May 2010
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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| sml7285 wrote: |
| dsun1226 wrote: |
I was born and raised in the US (before 1988) to parents that were still Korean citizens at the time. They have become naturalized citizens but didn't actually renounce Korean citizenship until recently. I have the paperwork from the Korean Embassy in the US saying they renounced (or applied to renounce) so hopefully next week I can change my visa from an E-2 to an F-4 without much problem.
My father says that since his entire side of the family immigrated to the US years before I was born, meaning I am not in the family registry in South Korea anyways. |
Depends on whether or not you were listed in your family's Hojuk at birth. Many people have grandparents who register them at birth. This may have been overlooked when you registered for an E-2 visa, so MAKE SURE that you are not listed in your family's hojuk (have a relative call in ahead of time) before going in with your documentation to try and get bumped up to an F-4 visa... you may find yourself being conscripted into the military instead. |
Thanks for the information. I asked my parents numerous times and they're adamant I was never registered in the hojuk. My maternal grandmother and paternal grandfather were the only ones alive when I was born and they already immigrated to the US beforehand. |
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slasher
Joined: 24 May 2012
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| Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 9:55 am Post subject: |
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If you are born in Korea, but got foreign citizenship later on, you lose your Korean citizenship on the spot as Korea does not allow dual citizenship except in very limited cases. That means you are not RENOUNCING your Korean citizenship, you are REPORTING your loss of nationality (those are the titles on the forms you need to fill out). After that, you may get your F4.
Since you are not Korean citizen, you do not have any military obligation. Although, you need documents to support your case to convince stubborn military clerks.
Now, if you are born outside of Korea, you may indeed have dual nationality and that is a different matter...
Source: went through the administrative hell myself to sort this out. |
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