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Media slant or total bias?
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Nismo

Joined: 31 Aug 2005

Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 1:58 pm Post subject:

northway wrote:

In the States, on the other hand, you've got to get to number Seven before you get into garbage: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_newspapers_in_the_United_States_by_circulation.

It looks like garbage from number 1, from my point of view. Laughing

northway

Joined: 05 Jul 2010

Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 2:01 pm Post subject:

Nismo wrote:

northway wrote:

In the States, on the other hand, you've got to get to number Seven before you get into garbage: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_newspapers_in_the_United_States_by_circulation.

It looks like garbage from number 1, from my point of view. Laughing

Where do you get your news? Honest question.

sml7285

Joined: 26 Apr 2012

Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 2:07 pm Post subject:

northway wrote:

sml7285 wrote:

northway wrote:

sml7285 wrote:

Swampfox10mm wrote:

From that time I realized that the media here is an absolute joke.

Though to be fair, the US has news stories like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzNhaLUT520

Regardless of your thoughts on news sensationalism anywhere, it's pretty funny once you understand not to take things at face value.

The issue is that it's mainstream newspapers doing it in Korea, and the higher the circulation the more likely it's basically a tabloid. In the States, on the other hand, you've got to get to number Seven before you get into garbage: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_newspapers_in_the_United_States_by_circulation.

True. However, I wonder about the differences in writing styles between the Korean and English versions of the articles. Also - even mainstream US papers have fair share of idiots who write articles. In fact the only paper that I can take seriously is the Christian Science Monitor.

I read the Times religiously, but their articles skew statistics in many cases and their opinion writers (Krugman especially on any subject other than International Economics) are idiots.

Please, Friedman is clearly the biggest idiot of them all. Very Happy

But yeah, fair points, though in the cases where I've had Koreans double check to see if the articles are the same, they always have been. Christian Science Monitor is a great paper, but the fact that they're Christian scientists does knock them down a peg, or at least it has for me ever since my high school buddy would rail anti-pain relief doctrine at us.

Haha I always get weird looks from people when I tell them that one of my primary sources of news is the CSM. The paper's Scientology background aside though, they're very, very unbiased/un-opinionated.

As for the Krugman/Friedman debate... I spent many years studying Krugman's economic theories (I'm an Econ major) and I found his work incredibly fascinating, but as soon as I started to read his opinion pieces in the NYT on baseball and swimming (led to some major facepalm moments), I lost respect immediately. As for Friedman, I loved his first book "Lexus and the Olive Tree" and then lost all respect after the sellout that was "The World is Flat".

Either way, both are hard to read these days, but all else equal, I'll take the slightly left of center, bipartisan Friedman over the lunatic neo-Communist nutjob that is Krugman.

fermentation

Joined: 22 Jun 2009

Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 3:30 pm Post subject:

Another thing about the news is that every major network seems to report on the exact same thing. You watch the 8pm news on SBS then watch the 9 o'clock one on MBC, it's the exact same stories just in different order. That's one of the more minor gripes I have. Oh well, I'd say you're an idiot if you only take in one news source and 100% believe in it. I was always told TV made you stupid, they just didn't mention it was the news that was the culprit.

Nismo

Joined: 31 Aug 2005

Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 5:01 pm Post subject:

northway wrote:

Nismo wrote:

northway wrote:

In the States, on the other hand, you've got to get to number Seven before you get into garbage: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_newspapers_in_the_United_States_by_circulation.

It looks like garbage from number 1, from my point of view. Laughing

Where do you get your news? Honest question.

Mostly BBC, although they have a lot of the same problems as the WSJ. But the WSJ is a ridiculous example of trying to justify the United States' hegemonic position through the promotion of a capitalist agenda. But, almost all U.S. papers do the same. Even the NY Times.

Steelrails

Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 10:20 pm Post subject:

fermentation wrote:

Another thing about the news is that every major network seems to report on the exact same thing. You watch the 8pm news on SBS then watch the 9 o'clock one on MBC, it's the exact same stories just in different order. That's one of the more minor gripes I have.

Oh well, I'd say you're an idiot if you only take in one news source and 100% believe in it. I was always told TV made you stupid, they just didn't mention it was the news that was the culprit.

You mean every single news station starts off their news report with some row between them and North Korea, a summit meeting with Obama, news on the Euro, a scandal involving some Seoul Council Member, an apartment fire that killed 6, weather, stocks, and sports?

Gee that's a shocker!

fermentation

Joined: 22 Jun 2009

Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 10:47 pm Post subject:

Steelrails wrote:

It's more like what people wear now that's warmer, some slant on foreigners, slant on Chinese, how awesome a foreign born Korean/quarter-Korean is because he/she did something in a western country, then sports.

Seriously, with 3 major news networks and with all that goes around in the world, you'd think there be at least some difference. I'd get they'd cover the big stories but they even do the same shitty reports about how the leaves are changing with the seasons. Then they rehash this shit every year.

I mean, wow really? The leaves change as the season does? And people wear different clothes to adjust to the temperature? I had no idea!
Sarcasm out.

Steelrails

Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 11:19 pm Post subject:

fermentation wrote:

Steelrails wrote:

You mean like "10 Tips to beat the heat AND save on your electric bills" You mean those kind of stories? (#1 Make sure all windows are closed when running the A/C") or "Hunting Season is here but some animal rights activists are crying foul! See why at 11" Or the post 9-11 "Local residents upset over Muslim Activity X".

fermentation

Joined: 22 Jun 2009

Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 11:49 pm Post subject:

Steelrails wrote:

No, more like, "People are wearing shorter skirts now that it's hotter." Type stories.

Not sure why you're getting your panties in a bunch man. Better never criticize the Korean media since the western media is shit too!

rchristo10

Joined: 14 Jul 2009

Posted: Mon May 21, 2012 1:12 am Post subject:

Steelrails wrote:

The news report would be biased if the Korean news media fails to ever report on dangerous areas in Korea that Koreans are involved in.

The other thing to consider is the fact that Itaewon doesn't have the greatest reputation even amongst foreigners. That's not to say its a total scuzz bucket place and doesn't have spots that are populated by tourists and professionals or is a great place to shop and dine in the daytime and early evening, but even amongst foreigners its sometimes viewed as drawing out the worst in people.

But truth be told, one of the fun things is to drink rooftop and watch what craziness happens below. I don't do that from the 5th floor of a bar in Hongdae, Gangnam or anywhere else.

Put it another way, if you had a choice, which 3AM shift at McDonald's would you rather work- Itaewon or one in Jamsil? Or Gangnam? Or Myeongdong?

I generally like your comments, but also know (being from da hood) that such thinking is quite dangerous. Especially your generalizing about working at McDonald's and where you'd prefer.

Anyways, I think that the poor image of Itaewon does have a lot to do with the reputation created, not simply by its inhabitants and visitors, but also by the media. Avoiding the chicken or the egg gambit, I think we can agree that such media blurring neither helps the situation nor does it correctly inform the people, i.e. its irresponsible journalism.

I see no need to stereotype the area, b/c believe me there are plenty of fight-districts in Korea amongst Koreans--you're just not there to see them. Yangachi areas are just as rambunctious (Recommendations: Certain back alleys in Jongno, Changnyangni, Yeongdongpo, Yeonshinae, Oijeongbu, Daegu/Kwangju--seen some nice fights there).

I guess my biggest gripe is that these areas are being tied to foreigners and inappropriately linked to violence with no better reason than nationalist fervor and discrimination.

It's not just a case of perception and stereotyping by people who know no better. They're teaching discrimination and perpetuating false images using unethical media tactics against the newest, undesirable ethnicity: Non-Korean.

**We should start writing books on our new Imagined Communities and bring meaning to our new ethnicity. I've already had problems explaining to Americans back home and Gyopos here that I'm not really black or white, I'm non-Korean.*** Hello!!! Wink

***cf. Koreans use 외국+인, often euphemistically translated as foreigner though it seems to carry more of a meaning of non-Korean than simply "foreigner" meaning non-national. I don't understand why they don't make it more direct word like 비(한)민족인 [非(韩)民族人]in Korean and shorten it to 비인 (or brute, beast, or~~again euphemistically "non-person") since that's clearly what they often mean.

Steelrails

Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

Posted: Mon May 21, 2012 3:01 am Post subject:

fermentation wrote:

Steelrails wrote:

Look at the bolded part. Can you imagine why a TV station might want to show such a news story? Come on, it isn't that hard...

"Are breast implants on the rise? Stay tuned for our in-depth, look at these ladies who say they're just fine with anding a little 'bump' to their profile. Oh yes and three kids were gunned down on Rosa Parks Blvd. We'll see you after the break."

Oh I agree the KMedia is garbage and sensationalistic, but that's the media. Of course the media is going to have "Well Duh" Filler stories on slow news days.

Quote:

I see no need to stereotype the area, b/c believe me there are plenty of fight-districts in Korea amongst Koreans--you're just not there to see them. Yangachi areas are just as rambunctious (Recommendations: Certain back alleys in Jongno, Changnyangni, Yeongdongpo, Yeonshinae, Oijeongbu, Daegu/Kwangju--seen some nice fights there).

Yeah, but none of those are exactly touristy areas or represent the international community or serve as the spot for Koreans to go get a taste of the outside world in Korea.

Gangnam and Apgujeong and Myeongdong are advertised to tourists. So is Itaewon, especially Itaewon. And it happens at times to get a bit over the top. I'd feel fine taking my parents to a pub in Itaewon at 11:00. But if my parents came across a bunch of street fights and GIs looking to start fights they'd tell me to take them to another area. They can handle drunks who just pass out or puke like in Gangnam, but places where people are antagonistic are a definite no-no. I think a lot of people feel that way, especially those of the older married family type.

I don't think it's only K-media that would be a little exasperated by this. I can imagine international corporations and government types, both Korean and foreign, that are more than a little exasperated with the fact that with the biggest foreign neighborhood they'd have to give guests words of warning.

Quote:

I generally like your comments, but also know (being from da hood) that such thinking is quite dangerous.

Unlike the ghetto, the majority of visitors to Itaewon have stable jobs, many in the white collar sector, so its baffling why it should end up like it does on occasion. Again, the 'won is a roll of the dice, some days its super laid back and normal, completely non-violent. Random nights it just becomes a free-for-all.

I mean, come on, if I'm in Itaewon and in front of me is a KBS Crew, I'm not crossing the street because I'm worried for my physical safety. Now if its a group of people talking smack to everyone that passes and trying to pick a fight, I am. And that is not the rarest of events in Itaewon. "Runnnnn. It's KBSNews!!!! KBS News isn't going to fling a half full plastic bottle of Hite at random people."

I mean what, should the KMedia NEVER do stories that portray foreigners in a negative light? Do they only show negative stories? Are there never positive ones? Do they show only positive stories about Koreans or do they show negative ones as well? Do we want to be treated the same, as in we get both positive and negative stories, or do we wanted to be treated differently, one way or the other?

Quote:

I guess my biggest gripe is that these areas are being tied to foreigners and inappropriately linked to violence with no better reason than nationalist fervor and discrimination.

I'll agree with the second part when foreigners themselves stop associating Itaewon with foreigners and violence. Again, can we really blame Koreans if many foreigners themselves feel that way about Itaewon?

It's kind of like being outraged at Koreans thinking we all do drugs, but get a bunch of foreigners together and talk about drugs and someone who's never smoked pot will invariably get "REALLY? You've NEVER tried it?" What do you expect if we ourselves are surprised at people who have never done drugs? And sorry, but you know there is some idiot teacher in the past who told his Co-Teacher "Oh yeah, back home EVERYONE smokes pot."

I dunno, though, that being all said, a lot of stuff about the 'won being dangerous and all is really overblown. I mean as far as dangerous and dirty neighborhoods are going, if Itaewon is the most dangerous and dirty neighborhood you've ever been in, you've lucked out in life. If my car breaks down in Itaewon, I ain't crapping my pants and hoping the cops drive by. If I was driving down the road, I wouldn't do it Detroit style and just slow down for red lights and blow on through. And yeah, there are probably way crappier and violent neighborhoods in parts of Korea that are filled only with Koreans.

northway

Joined: 05 Jul 2010

Posted: Mon May 21, 2012 4:45 am Post subject:

Quote:

But if my parents came across a bunch of street fights and GIs looking to start fights they'd tell me to take them to another area. They can handle drunks who just pass out or puke like in Gangnam, but places where people are antagonistic are a definite no-no. I think a lot of people feel that way, especially those of the older married family type.

Here's the thing though: there really aren't that many fights in Itaewon. I know we've been down this road before, but I've spent countless weekend nights there and I haven't seen any more fights there than in Hongdae. Moreover, I've seen a fair number of fights in my upscale, suburban neighborhood. Again, as we've discussed before, most of the foreigners claiming that Itaewon is a cage fight are the foreigners who turn their noses up at the place regardless (possibly because they watch too much Korean television). Itaewon is dangerous in the same way Ansan is dangerus: it's not.

rchristo10

Joined: 14 Jul 2009

Posted: Mon May 21, 2012 5:35 am Post subject:

Steelrails wrote:

Yeah, but none of those are exactly touristy areas or represent the international community or serve as the spot for Koreans to go get a taste of the outside world in Korea.

Ah, we agree! Media and their over-embellished caricature of reality is the problem! But since when did targeted consumerism become the backdrop for the lives of the people who happen to shop there? I mean, I've heard that Tacos are Mexican, but I don't see much point of going to Taco Bell (or a less-bastardized version) to learn about the Mexicans. Honestly, I'm still a bit shocked at how you were able to continue writing after asserting (even remotely) that Itaewon "represent(s) the international community." Diversity is one thing, representing its components another; it's a mall man, not a cultural enclave.

Steelrails wrote:

Gangnam and Apgujeong and Myeongdong are advertised to tourists. So is Itaewon, especially Itaewon. And it happens at times to get a bit over the top.

But Steelrails, that's the point. There are plenty of fights in Gangnam, Myeongdong, and yes, even Apgujeong--on both a weekly and monthly basis. And, you'll notice that the reason for visiting these places are different and thus different clientele. People are generally shopping in Myeongdong, drinking (& shopping?) in Gangnam, and sightseeing (& drinking) in Apgujeong--or at least that's how they're advertised. And these places all have fights too, but being that there are fewer foreigners there, the fights are usually amongst and between Koreans. Here's one in Apgu that didn't make the news: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCCxtUGkhso

**To be honest, I don't see your point with the above comment or with the odd hypothetical of your parents that follows it. How does it somehow legitimize irresponsible journalism?

Steelrails wrote:

I don't think it's only K-media that would be a little exasperated by this. I can imagine international corporations and government types, both Korean and foreign, that are more than a little exasperated with the fact that with the biggest foreign neighborhood they'd have to give guests words of warning.

So you think that the poor journalism above was aimed at what exactly? A rant? The Korean news targeted Itaewon to rant to the public about a problem that companies want to rant about because it bothers their relations with clients? Shocked

Steelrails wrote:

Unlike the ghetto, the majority of visitors to Itaewon have stable jobs, many in the white collar sector, so its baffling why it should end up like it does on occasion.

See what I mean about being careful? First, the ghetto also has many people with stable jobs. What's more, the "white collar sector" (+ the expectations & decorum that are typically tagged to its laborers) is an extremely relative notion, especially when you consider cross-cultural differences. I have nothing against ESL teachers or soldiers, but I wonder if you can safely assume that the same white collar status & decorum that comes with the job would apply across the board & over the borders.

Steelrails wrote:

I mean, come on, if I'm in Itaewon and in front of me is a KBS Crew, I'm not crossing the street because I'm worried for my physical safety. Now if its a group of people talking smack to everyone that passes and trying to pick a fight, I am. And that is not the rarest of events in Itaewon. "Runnnnn. It's KBSNews!!!! KBS News isn't going to fling a half full plastic bottle of Hite at random people."

Now you're just being silly. Laughing

(Hmm...or maybe not: Did someone fling a half full plastic bottle of Hite at you?)

Steelrails wrote:

I mean what, should the KMedia NEVER do stories that portray foreigners in a negative light? Do they only show negative stories? Are there never positive ones? Do they show only positive stories about Koreans or do they show negative ones as well? Do we want to be treated the same, as in we get both positive and negative stories, or do we wanted to be treated differently, one way or the other?

If it means shirking their responsibilities and professionalism, I'd say they should NEVER portray foreigners in a negative light. Extreme bias and unethical journalism aside, burn the bastards! Foreigners deserve just as much criticism as the non-foreigners, but also the same fortitude when it comes to ethical practices.

Steelrails wrote:

Circular logic? Shocking. Especially from you! Not like your usual. Anyways, from the way you generalize about the ghetto and the "'won," I'd have to say you've already joined the ranks of the media that hopes desperately to burn you at the stake. But, logically speaking, if you think foreigners should stop associating Itaewon with foreigners and violence, then wouldn't commonsense also tell you to agree with me--since that's what I'm clearly trying to do? Instead, you seem to be perpetuating (on some unconscious level perhaps) your own biases against Itaewon and projecting them onto others, no? As is, you seem to be betwixt and between journalistic integrity and its yellow other half.

Still, I can't grasp why you would see legitimacy in this type of journalism despite admitting in the end that Itaewon is not such a dangerous place. Isn't news supposed to inform people about the realities, not simply feed them untrue fodder?

Steelrails

Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

Posted: Mon May 21, 2012 2:03 pm Post subject:

Quote:

I'm still a bit shocked at how you were able to continue writing after asserting (even remotely) that Itaewon "represent(s) the international community."

It represents it by default. It IS the closest thing to a cultural enclave here. To suggest that it's not the area most associated with foreigners, both by foreigners and Koreans, is to be disingenuous.

Quote:

People are generally shopping in Myeongdong, drinking (& shopping?) in Gangnam, and sightseeing (& drinking) in Apgujeong--or at least that's how they're advertised.

Yes, but often those fights are amongst Koreans who already know each other, not strangers, and certainly not involving random people trying to pick a fight.

Quote:

What's more, the "white collar sector" (+ the expectations & decorum that are typically tagged to its laborers) is an extremely relative notion, especially when you consider cross-cultural differences. I have nothing against ESL teachers or soldiers, but I wonder if you can safely assume that the same white collar status & decorum that comes with the job would apply across the board & over the borders.

If you took someone from back home to the 'won at 2AM and sat em on a rooftop and watched the hijinks that sometimes happen, you don't think they might say "And half these people are TEACHERS?"

Put it this way- I don't think you're going to be watching exposes about foreigner violence in the new Incheon international business district.

On the flip side, that place won't be near as fun and probably feature overpriced mediocre foreign restaurants.

Quote:

(Hmm...or maybe not: Did someone fling a half full plastic bottle of Hite at you?)

No, but saw it happen.

Look, I've been there enough to know its not THAT dangerous and people make it out to be a scuzzhole. Some nights I've gone there and its been the touristy-business crowd having a cocktail on a summer night. Everyone who is in the area, from all walks of life, is out for a good time and would do the nicest things they could.

I've also been there on nights where you can tell its fight night and some people are just looking for a fight and there's a definite air to the place that says "Mos Eisley Cantina".

Quote:

Foreigners deserve just as much criticism as the non-foreigners, but also the same fortitude when it comes to ethical practices.

I'd submit that foreigners are treated equally crappy by an equally shoddy and sensationalistic Korean media. What, do you think the Korean media abides by journalistic principles and avoids sensationalism when dealing with Koreans?

Quote:

Still, I can't grasp why you would see legitimacy in this type of journalism despite admitting in the end that Itaewon is not such a dangerous place. Isn't news supposed to inform people about the realities, not simply feed them untrue fodder?

What I'm trying to get at is the "real" part of things. Let's be real, Itaewon can be a scuzzhole at times. There is a reason for its image and isn't the Korean media. When even some foreigners go "uhhhhh" at the idea of a night out in Itaewon, there's something there. And like it or not, Itaewon is associated with foreigners and represents us. That's not fair or logical, but that's the way it is. Actions speak louder than words, through time, the international amalgamation has turned Itaewon into what it is, for better and for worse.

And again, being real, anyone would rather work in McD's in Gangnam or Myeongdong or Hongdae at 3AM than Itaewon.

At the same time, let's be real and agree that to portray Itaewon as some sort of ghetto is ludicrous. It can be a great spot, even at 3AM with a festive atmosphere you won't find anywhere else and certainly a better place to be walking down the street than those neighborhoods you listed.

In other words, the story gets it wrong and is over-the-top, but that doesn't mean there isn't an issue there. All the same, just because there is an issue doesn't make it newsworthy, but that's the media. Take borderline stories and turn them into sensationalistic reports. What does one expect from an agency that competes for ratings and revenue?

fermentation

Joined: 22 Jun 2009

Posted: Mon May 21, 2012 3:12 pm Post subject:

Steelrails wrote:

Oh I agree the KMedia is garbage and sensationalistic, but that's the media. Of course the media is going to have "Well Duh" Filler stories on slow news days.

That was exactly my point. Not sure why you're always so defensive dude.

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