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Junior in HS planning to ESL/International teach in S.Korea?
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The ESL Wannabe



Joined: 19 Mar 2012

PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 12:55 pm    Post subject: Junior in HS planning to ESL/International teach in S.Korea? Reply with quote

Hi, I'm currently in 11th grade and I'm planning to teach abroad. I plan on double majoring in college, Biology and Education (Most likely Science Ed.). I was wondering, if I complete a Bachelors degree or high in this field, would it be relatively easy for me to obtain a job for a few years ESL'ing throughout various schools? I also heard that if you major in Education your Bachelors degree you wouldn't need to get a TEFL, is this true? And, after I finish teaching English for a few years I would like to go to teach Science, would it look good that I taught in general and would it in-able me to get a secure job as an international teacher either in S. Korea or Japan?


Also, any tips on becoming a ESL teacher in the future would be nice, thanks!
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tardisrider



Joined: 13 Mar 2003
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The general answer to all of your questions is "yes"--though you're still about 5 or so years away from being able to teach legally (in Korea) and there's no telling what the situation will be like by that time.

Regarding a degree in education negating the need for a TEFL--currently, you really don't need either to get a job in Korea--any kind of BA or BS would do. That being said, theoretically having an education background and/or TEFL cert should help you get a better job than you'd otherwise get, though there's no guarantee of that, especially if you are working for a hagwon. I'd shoot for public school jobs if I were you. Having an education background would likely be of more benefit when searching for those jobs, but that's by no means guaranteed. Assuming the situation is the same as it is now, you'll get a job, I just don't know if your major will affect the job you get that much.

You talk about wanting to teach science after you teach English. If you are a licensed teacher in your home country (since you discuss being in the 11th grade, I'm going to assume that you're either American or Canadian) the experience might help you get a job at an international school--those jobs are generally highly competitive, and a combination of both degrees and international experience will be helpful. There are no guarantees.

I don't know how your Korean teaching experience would affect getting a science teaching job in your home country, though if you do it for one or two years there should be no hugely negative repercussions. Some people do say that teaching abroad for a long period of time negatively affects job prospects back "home." A year or two in Korea (or elsewhere) can certainly look good on a grad school application in your home country, particularly if you are applying to a program in education or other related field.

And just for the record, it's "enable", not "in-able".
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The ESL Wannabe



Joined: 19 Mar 2012

PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the quick reply! And about the 'in-able' mistake, I was typing quickly and made a spelling error.

I have a few more questions if you don't mind:

How many years do you recommend ESL'ing in general?
Can people hope to retire off such a payment if they choose to pursue ESL'ing for a long time?
Should I start off teaching for a year or two in my home country before going out and applying for international teaching position, or would be teaching experience in a different field be acceptable? (Stupid question, I know.)
Could you give me a few reputable ESL companies? I've heard of Footprints and CCI (Which I've heard go off of the EPIK program (?))

Thanks again!
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tardisrider



Joined: 13 Mar 2003
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The ESL Wannabe wrote:
Thanks for the quick reply! And about the 'in-able' mistake, I was typing quickly and made a spelling error.


No worries.

Quote:
I have a few more questions if you don't mind:

How many years do you recommend ESL'ing in general?


That's totally dependent upon what you want to do--you can do it for a year or you can make a career of it. But the field is wide open and you're able to do what you want. I know people who've started their own schools, people who've taught ESL in a gazillion countries, people who've returned to their home countries and taught there, both at the uni level and privately. Now, if the question is "How long should you do it if you don't want to make a career of it and are only doing it for a lark before moving on to other things?" Well, I guess no more than 3 to 5, but there's no magic number. It's up to you.

Quote:
Can people hope to retire off such a payment if they choose to pursue ESL'ing for a long time?

If you're talking about just teaching for hagwons in Korea, it's extremely unlikely. But as I wrote above, there are too many options to simply suggest one "yes" or "no" answer to your question. Education in general isn't thought of as a particularly lucrative field, but I know people (in Korea and other countries as well) who have been able to retire after running their own schools, teaching ESL long-term at universities, etc. Of course, there are all sorts of factors to consider, just like there are for people going into any field.

Quote:
Should I start off teaching for a year or two in my home country before going out and applying for international teaching position, or would be teaching experience in a different field be acceptable? (Stupid question, I know.)


Remember, there aren't stupid questions, only stupid people. Wait, let me take that back, there are stupid questions, but yours isn't one of them. It is pretty vague, though. Should you? If you're going to try to get into international schools either in Korea or in other countries, then experience teaching in your home country would be highly beneficial. If you're thinking of teaching EFL in Korea at a hagwon or public school...the experience would be personally helpful in that you'd have experience, it might not necessarily affect your job search one way or another. It couldn't hurt, but it might not necessarily help.

Quote:
Could you give me a few reputable ESL companies? I've heard of Footprints and CCI (Which I've heard go off of the EPIK program (?))


I would certainly suggest that you look into Cambridge's CELTA program for (what I believe is) the most reputable certification for ESL/EFL teaching; I'm sorry, but I'm at a university and don't know much about recruiters or the EPIK program, though I've no doubt that others will be able to give you information.

I think it's great that you're thinking ahead and I don't mean to be discouraging at all, but the situation in Korea is too fluid for you to be getting bogged down with details about particular recruiters and requirements right now--I'm sure things will change in five or so years.

Since you're obviously interested in teaching ESL, you might want to get a small taste of what it's like by volunteering with a local organization in your hometown. Especially if you're in a city with many immigrants, there are usually local non-profits (and churches and the like) which have English classes and need volunteers. And it might look good on your university applications, as well. Just an idea.
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luckylady



Joined: 30 Jan 2012
Location: u.s. of occupied territories

PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The ESL Wannabe wrote:

Can people hope to retire off such a payment if they choose to pursue ESL'ing for a long time?



haven't you heard ? only the 1%'rs get to retire any more. everyone else works until. we. die.
Shocked
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The ESL Wannabe



Joined: 19 Mar 2012

PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So you basically think the ESL opportunities are going to be going down quite a bit by the time I try to apply for a position?

Also, does teaching in a University bring in more money than the schools? (I'm not in it for the money, just curious)

Sadly, there aren't any such things in my neighborhood or local areas, however I do plan on trying to study abroad in South Korea or Japan while in college. If that helps at all haha.
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plchron



Joined: 26 Feb 2011
Location: Korea

PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you are going to get certified and have a specialty in science then try hitting up either the international schools or the middle eastern gigs. That is where you make the money to retire.
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tardisrider



Joined: 13 Mar 2003
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The ESL Wannabe wrote:
So you basically think the ESL opportunities are going to be going down quite a bit by the time I try to apply for a position?


Down? I don't know if that will be the case, but the situation in terms of expectations, job requirements, visa requirements, costs of living/salaries, etc will likely be different. Will there be an EPIK? Who knows, but if it's still around, it won't be the same as it is today. It's too early to tell what the situation will be like and far too early to be putting the entirety of your avian embryos into one woven container, so to speak. I'm not saying don't plan or look forward--just don't expect that everything will be the same in 2017 or whatever.

Quote:
Also, does teaching in a University bring in more money than the schools? (I'm not in it for the money, just curious)


In general, good university jobs offer more money, better conditions, far fewer teaching hours and more holiday than other jobs. The key word in the preceding sentence is "good". There are terrible university jobs as well, and while I can't give a definitive answer, most people whom I know would prefer to work in a university--though since most EFL teachers I know already do work in a university, it's not exactly an unbiased sample. It's also quite difficult (not impossible with the right connections and qualifications) to get a university job from outside of Korea, especially if you haven't worked in Korea before.

Quote:
Sadly, there aren't any such things in my neighborhood or local areas, however I do plan on trying to study abroad in South Korea or Japan while in college. If that helps at all haha.


It won't hurt anything.
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Modernist



Joined: 23 Mar 2011
Location: The 90s

PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

11th grade and you're already trying to prepare to do THIS? This joke of a 'profession'? This work that anyone comfortable with boredom, acting like a fool, and endless repetition of the least interesting subjects/topic/words imaginable could manage? This job that the vast majority of its practitioners, including me, get with almost no teaching experience whatsoever?

Wait, why? WHY? My God, if you really want to be a teacher then for the love of all that's holy, get a quality teaching qualification from a first-rate Western school of education and find a proper job teaching in your home country. If you want to teach science and are good at that subject, you'll have no trouble doing it. Why waste any of your professional life slagging away in this dump of a country teaching English? If you aren't careful it will melt your brain through its absolute vacuousness.

Ah, I know. Are you one of those Asia-phile people? Like soomin? Just desperate to be here in the magical East? What is it, the tech? The cars? The food [I hope not]? The language? The women? What? I notice references to Japan also. Is that the real goal--to live in the land of the Rising Manga? But, what, you think it's too hard to get work there, Korea is easier for EFL? And then you'll swing that around and get hired to teach science at an American school in Tokyo and be living the otaku dream?

Like I said before, I find this species, if that's what the OP is, quite fascinating.

Also, NONE of us here, NONE WHATSOEVER, could possibly tell you what the ESL market will look like in 5 years, in Korea, Japan, Asia, or anywhere. It's impossible. We don't even know what's going to happen to value of our salaries over the next 6 months, as another thread here amply proves. There's not a person alive who could project with any basis the job market that far out.

If you've got your fixation on living in Asia for whatever reason, the best thing you could do in college is grow up and lose it. However, failing that, study hard, get good grades, pick up some good recommendations from your faculty, get some experience through tutoring or things like that, practice saying how much you love Korea ['I've been preparing for SIX YEARS now!'] and then go ahead and apply. You won't have too much trouble 'qualifying,' I can assure you.
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northway



Joined: 05 Jul 2010

PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
If you've got your fixation on living in Asia for whatever reason, the best thing you could do in college is grow up and lose it. However, failing that, study hard, get good grades, pick up some good recommendations from your faculty, get some experience through tutoring or things like that, practice saying how much you love Korea ['I've been preparing for SIX YEARS now!'] and then go ahead and apply. You won't have too much trouble 'qualifying,' I can assure you.


Or go the non-lazy rout, bust your ass and learn Chinese, allowing you to do pretty much whatever you want in China once you get out. There are plenty of good jobs for Westerners in Asia, they just aren't very accessible if you don't have language skills (or other skills, for that matter). An international business focus combined with Chinese ability could take you far.
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Modernist



Joined: 23 Mar 2011
Location: The 90s

PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Or go the non-lazy rout, bust your ass and learn Chinese, allowing you to do pretty much whatever you want in China once you get out. There are plenty of good jobs for Westerners in Asia, they just aren't very accessible if you don't have language skills (or other skills, for that matter). An international business focus combined with Chinese ability could take you far.

Astute as always, northway. However, I really doubt this OP is at all interested in China. For some reason, these people are all about Japan. Korea is acceptable because in their fevered imaginations it's not THAT different from Japan [better not mention that part to the locals...]. And more importantly, they think, it's SO CLOSE BY. They can, they think, live in Daegu or Ulsan and just pop over to the promised land on the weekends, apparently.

We've all read about those people who work for nothing for the dispatch companies in nowhere Hokkaido, just to be there. Besides JET, there's nothing like a cushy teaching gig there like you can find here, AFAIK. And certainly you never hear about people doing anything or taking any job just so they can live in China, do you?

This thing with Japan is pretty rare. I think maybe only France, Russia, Israel, possibly places in some of the Arab world, and to some extent parts of India/South Asia can match it, in drawing non-native people willing to sacrifice a lot just to experience life in that country/culture. Personally, while I do intend to check out Nippon on the way out of here, I really haven't been too focused on seeing it. Besides the works of Tadao Ando, I can't think of much I'm passionate about seeing there. I mean, what exactly is it that the Asia-philes are so desperate to experience anyway? I have never understood it. Anyone care to enlighten me?
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DejaVu



Joined: 27 Jan 2011
Location: Your dreams

PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Modernist wrote:
Besides the works of Tadao Ando, I can't think of much I'm passionate about seeing there. I mean, what exactly is it that the Asia-philes are so desperate to experience anyway? I have never understood it. Anyone care to enlighten me?


If you're choosing your areas of destination based on the nationality of architects, you're doing it wrong.

By the detailed manner in which you speak of this phenomenon (of having an idealistic view of another country), I guess you also felt this notion at some point in your life? You must have "overcome" this notion and now yell out at others with the same idea because you've had to label it as immature as it is in your past.

If not, you at least must have had many intimate discussions with people that fit this description.

Yet, you still can't figure it out? Why should one "grow up" and lose it?

Your rant is nice because I see that you're trying to help the OP. But, there are many who would be happy to live in ignorance even after they've landed.
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hogwonguy1979



Joined: 22 Dec 2003
Location: the racoon den

PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 12:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

this is a great troll, somebody out there is laughing their you know what off
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matthews_world



Joined: 15 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 2:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the OP were from the States and considering teaching in their own country, then they might find the market to be glutted about now.

Also, with the uni teaching, the Korean government is now requiring it's foreign ESL teachers to start to be hired with a Master's degree only starting in September of this year. This is for the non-tenure classroom positions.

It is possible to teach in academies sponsored by the university held on their individual campuses with a 4-year degree.
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ttompatz



Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea

PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 3:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Queries:
i) Can you make a career in EFL/ESL?

ii) can you make a decent living in EFL/ESL?

iii) is there a future in EFL/ESL?

iv) will I forever be doomed to the future as foretold by Modernist above?
Modernist wrote:
This work that anyone comfortable with boredom, acting like a fool, and endless repetition of the least interesting subjects/topic/words imaginable could manage? This job that the vast majority of its practitioners, including me, get with almost no teaching experience whatsoever?


v) After a long career in EFL will you be able to retire in comfort?

i) yes.

ii) yes.

iii) yes. Currently, in the midst of a "global recession" (as professed by our friends from the Indebted States of America), while America was laying off workers in their millions ESL in Asia alone continues to absorb some 150,000 new teachers every year (along with jobs in other sectors for those with the wherewithal and skills to get out there and get them).

China alone (SAFEA numbers) is forecasting a minimum need of 50,000 new teachers every year for the next decade. Korea absorbs some 20,000, Taiwan 5000, Japan 5.000-10,000, Thailand 15,000 legal and (estimated) 15,000 illegal PLUS all the other countries from Turkey to eastern Indonesia looking for teachers as well.

ADD to that the 2015 ASEAN integration (English is the declared language of ASEAN) and there will be no shortage of work for the next generation or so.

iv) No, UNLESS you refuse to continue with your professional development. If you stagnate at the entry level with no continued development then yes, you will be doomed to stare at the glass ceiling while you languish at the entry level.

v) yes, it certainly is possible. I, as a lowly worker in ESL have over the last 16 years managed to live comfortably, travel extensively, buy (mortgage free) 2 homes (one in my home country and one in Asia) and have some savings tucked away. It also looks as though I will continue to be employed for as long as I want to stay working.
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