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rchristo10
Joined: 14 Jul 2009
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 Posted: Thu May 24, 2012 11:12 pm Post subject: Re: Media slant or total bias? |
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| KimchiNinja wrote: |
| rchristo10 wrote: |
| What kind of strange journalism is this? |
Foreigners have a bad reputation in Korea, and so that exists.
Writers use what exists and frame it into a story that appeals to the masses.
Questions?  |
Yes, just one: since when did "journalism" mean fiction? And all the while I thought they were different.  oh and, |
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KimchiNinja
Joined: 01 May 2012
Location: Gangnam
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| Posted: Thu May 24, 2012 11:32 pm Post subject: Re: Media slant or total bias? |
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| rchristo10 wrote: |
| Yes, just one: since when did "journalism" mean fiction? And all the while I thought they were different. oh and, |
Since the corporations took over humanity I guess; serious journalism gets subordinated to corporate profit. But cmon in America "the news" is total fiction where as the foreigners in Itaewon aren't exactly boy scouts.  |
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rchristo10
Joined: 14 Jul 2009
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| Posted: Thu May 24, 2012 11:46 pm Post subject: Re: Media slant or total bias? |
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| KimchiNinja wrote: |
| rchristo10 wrote: |
| Yes, just one: since when did "journalism" mean fiction? And all the while I thought they were different. oh and, |
Since the corporations took over humanity I guess; serious journalism gets subordinated to corporate profit. But cmon in America "the news" is total fiction where as the foreigners in Itaewon aren't exactly boy scouts. |
Definitely, I can see your point there. Yet, I'd have to argue against total fiction. I mean, come on, there are some pretty good reporters and reports out there in the US--news isn't totally washed up. And, true, Itaewon is not a playground, but if you get enough idiots in any place (there are surely many in Korea--not just Itaewon) then your bound to see some less-than-pristine behavior--regardless of nationality, race, or ethnic/ religious affiliation; idiots will be idiots.
To go at such lengths--connecting a random fight to drinking on one of the biggest holidays in the world to dark bars playing rap music (with no real linkage--at all!) to two random black guys (and mentioning the fact) hitting on two Korean girls (who could even be Gyopos) and ending with an attempted foreigner-on-Korean rape in a national report--is taking things a bit too far, no?
I mean sensationalism is one thing. Blatant irresponsible journalism and blunt racism and prejudice is just downright unethical.
Last edited by rchristo10 on Wed May 30, 2012 4:07 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Zyzyfer
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: who, what, where, when, why, how?
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2012 12:01 am Post subject: |
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| fermentation wrote: |
On a lighter note, here's a funny(or sad depending on how you look at it) Korean article and the responses from Korean netizens.
http://news.naver.com/main/hotissue/read.nhn?mid=hot&sid1=148&cid=845613&iid=31736031&oid=108&aid=0002148587&ptype=021
There's a picture of Cloe Moretz, Duna Bae and Lee Hyori standing together, and the title says that Hyori has a body "superior" to Moretz. Seeing how Moretz is like 15 or something, I cracked up and I just had to see the responses.
Some gems:
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Lee Hyori is the best! She's so pretty!
Chloe is so ugly!
Why are they the same height but Lee Hyori has shorter legs?
Are you serious, reporter? Chloe Moretz is born in 97! |
Some surprisingly anti-Korean:
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| Kimchi bitches have the smallest *beep* in all of Asia! |
The funniest:
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I see two squids standing next to a foreigner.
Is the reporters a pedophile? He should be in chains for that title.
Moretz is in 3rd year of Middle School. Noh Hyungyun(the reporter's name), are you trying to be like Ko Hyungwook (a celebrity who's been accused of having sex with a 14 year old)? |
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Hahah that's pretty funny. "Hey our resident ultra-hottie kicks this 15-year-old's ass! Yeah!" |
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Reggie
Joined: 21 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2012 12:05 am Post subject: |
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The inmates are running the asylum. With a clean FBI background check, I don't think I have enough street cred for the lawmakers who required the FBI background check. |
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hiamnotcool
Joined: 06 Feb 2012
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2012 3:24 am Post subject: |
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Here is an area with a lot of bars that is open all hours. People gather and get very drunk, there are fights here, and girls get harrassed.
This is not in anyway way unique to Itaewon, it describes pretty much every part of Seoul that is known for night life. They just add foreigners in the mix and pretend that is the cause. Yes, attributing something that is really due to alcohol and what I consider the typical nightlife culture to the presence of foreigners is biased. If they shipped us all out tomorrow, there would still be drunken fights, rape, and murder here, I would even go so far as to say the level wouldn't increase or decrease. So how is this related to foreigners?
Fortunately, I believe the majority of Koreans don't buy into this stuff. The Koreans that do buy into it are better kept away from Itaewon anyway, I hope they stay as far away from me as possible.
I'm not even sure who thinks this story ISN'T biased though...who doesn't think it is biased? that is the original question. Who cares if it happens in other countries, anywhere it happens it is wrong, and this story is almost comical it is so overblown. I never cease to be amazed at the things people will demonize in other countries and accept here - and the funny thing is most Korean people don't even accept it.
Also, there are plenty of stories demonizing Koreans. Tons of undercover shows where they expose prostitution rings, drugs, etc. However, these sometimes have some relation to Japan or China. But to be fair, I have to say S Korea is critical of Koreans WHEN IT IS WARRANTED. The Itaewon story is just stupid and unwarranted.
I consider revealing people's faces and taking cameras into clubs as kind of an intimidating way to say "we are watching you" try going to a club in gangnam or apkujeong and pulling out your camera. Bouncers will stomp that out fast. Nobody wants to be on seen on national television at their most inebriated on new years eve with harrowing music and an unsolved mysteries style voice talking about them. |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2012 3:38 am Post subject: Re: Media slant or total bias? |
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| KimchiNinja wrote: |
| rchristo10 wrote: |
| Yes, just one: since when did "journalism" mean fiction? And all the while I thought they were different. oh and, |
Since the corporations took over humanity I guess; serious journalism gets subordinated to corporate profit. But cmon in America "the news" is total fiction where as the foreigners in Itaewon aren't exactly boy scouts. |
TV news is fictional, there's still plenty of great print and online journalism out there. |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2012 7:24 am Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| rchristo10 wrote: |
| Adventurer wrote: |
| Well, I do agree that Itaewon can be quite violent. I haven't seen violence when I was there except once, but I heard of so many incidents, and one of my friends was in a fight that involved foreigners. One Western guy was super aggressive with a Western girl, and someone pushed him and it escalated from there. However, in Korea, racism sells just like in America sex sells. Focusing on how non-Koreans can be inferior is unfortunately out there no matter how people may want to deny it. If we focused so much on negative things Asians did in North America, people would rightfully say the media was promoting racism. The Korean media does promote xenophobia, IMHO. |
Thanks, Korean media does promote xenophobia and to be honest they do it in a brashly unethical way. (Why Steelrod keeps talking about Itaewon--he can't speak Korean and doesn't understand a word about the first case...unfortunately, Itaewon has nothing to do with the post...and he still hasn't really gotten that in his thick skull--a jellyfish, is a jellyfish, let it be...talking about economic equality as a resolution to the Jim Crow Laws...dat be da type of ignorant (blank) we should just keep in the US, if that's where it came from. I can here him already, "Women? Rape? Prejudice? What discrimination?? They have economic equality, so I don't understand what all the fuss is about!" Jellyfish...Jellyfish).
It's surprising just at what lengths mainstream media services will go at making any and every situation involving non-Koreans an issue specifically concerning their ethnicity, race, or nationality. |
I keep mentioning Itaewon because the article was about Itaewon. If you want to move the discussion into broader territory fine. I'd be more apt to agree with you there. But to say the Korean media is biased because of this report on Itaewon (and their failure to report on a single cell phone video in Apgujeong) is a bit of a stretch. For one, as I keep on saying, if foreigners themselves share this perception of the place, can we condemn the Korean media for sharing that view?. The second point is whether or not the Korean media refuses to do negative stories about Koreans and only does negative stories about foreigners, not stories about foreigners in generally positive terms?
In order to establish a case for bias, you have to prove that their view is not shared by foreigners, and that they only print negative stories about one group and don't print positive stories about another group.
If you cannot demonstrate that, its hard to prove bias.
| Quote: |
| It's surprising just at what lengths mainstream media services will go at making any and every situation involving non-Koreans an issue specifically concerning their ethnicity, race, or nationality. |
And those op-ed pieces that Koreans write about Koreans that collectively blame Korean people for certain Korean behaviors for negative outcomes are a myth?
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| So you've seen one fight in Itaewon and that is enough to make a judgment on the place? As I've said many times before: yes, there are fights there, but in all my nights there, I can't say that there are any more than every other drinking/clubbing district I've ever been to, including those in Korea. I really think that the reputation of Itaewon as a violent place comes mostly from people who have never spent time in the nightlife district of a big city before. |
I agree that as far as "bad neighborhoods", if Itaewon is someone's idea of a bad neighborhood, that's just silly.
At the same time, as I said, would you rather work the 3AM McDonald's counter in Hongdae/Gangnam/Myeongdong/Sinchon or Itaewon? Be real. |
You don't have a quarrel with me about the idea that a lot of trashy behavior is seen in Itaewon and bad behavior. There's no doubt about it. I was speaking in general terms that, as a foreigner, you get used to the Korean media putting foreigners constantly under the spot light. I think Itaewon can be a dangerous place at times. A friend of mine got involved in a fight recently because some guy kept on bothering a Western girl and didn't know how to leave her alone and things escalated. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2012 8:10 am Post subject: |
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| So your erudite view is that only the haves deserve the priviledge of responsible journalism. |
No, but that's the way things are. Laws are meaningless without enforcement, and enforcement is highly dependent on influence.
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| Koreans don't "treat" Koreans per se in the newspapers or on the news very often. They discuss issues for what they are, which usually has nothing to do with being Korean or not being Korean. When it comes to reporting similar issues and the culprit happens to be a non-Korean they make a point of not only mentioning it without due reason, but also making racist connections and generalizations (as you see in Case 1) that often have nothing to do with the issues at hand. That's called biased, unethical reporting.True, it's triggered at increasing sales and getting that all-too-well-known CNN Effect, but that doesn't make it right. |
Are you sure? Usually when Koreans write op-ed articles about things Koreans need to change they speak in pretty broad terms.
Remember Cho Seung-Hui? Remember how many Koreans felt the need to apologize and felt they deserved some sort of blame?
So yes, when a group gets blamed, the Koreans are treating you "fairly" in the sense that they are applying the same standards to you as themselves.
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| IRRESPONSIBLE JOURNALISM |
There's a redundancy.
Journalism sources that aren't pushing some kind of an agenda are few and far between. Most journalism sources are either state-run or driven to make a profit, those few that aren't are highly dependent on stable readership and/or funding. If they don't write things that sell, they don't last long.
That's wrong, but that's the way it is. In order to change that you have to change human nature. You have to make it so that people aren't turned on by stories of sex and gore and scandal.
Plus the sad thing is that a media source of integrity is probably going to have a hard time getting some stories, interviews, and leads. Those that it does get will be leaked by people with an agenda who quite likely are masking the full circumstances behind things. Why is anyone going to bother to read that media source if they don't have any breaking stories?
Do we really want responsible journalism or do we actually want the "Pro-Foreigner Mouthpiece"? |
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Reggie
Joined: 21 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2012 8:28 am Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
Remember Cho Seung-Hui? Remember how many Koreans felt the need to apologize and felt they deserved some sort of blame?
So yes, when a group gets blamed, the Koreans are treating you "fairly" in the sense that they are applying the same standards to you as themselves. |
A few did, but most were saying he was actually American! In order to be held to the same standards they apply to other Koreans, if I was to go on a mass murder rampage at a Korean university, they would need to say, "Since Reggie has lived years of his life in Korea, he should be considered Korean now, not American." Do you actually think they would consider me Korean the same way so many considered Cho to be American, Steelrails? |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2012 8:50 am Post subject: |
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Journalism sources that aren't pushing some kind of an agenda are few and far between. Most journalism sources are either state-run or driven to make a profit, those few that aren't are highly dependent on stable readership and/or funding. If they don't write things that sell, they don't last long.
That's wrong, but that's the way it is. In order to change that you have to change human nature. You have to make it so that people aren't turned on by stories of sex and gore and scandal.
Plus the sad thing is that a media source of integrity is probably going to have a hard time getting some stories, interviews, and leads. Those that it does get will be leaked by people with an agenda who quite likely are masking the full circumstances behind things. Why is anyone going to bother to read that media source if they don't have any breaking stories? |
Like I said though, the newspapers with wide readership in the States are the ones that actually abide by journalistic ethics. People read the Times, WaPo, and WSJ because they can trust those newspapers to avoid total hack jobs, for the most part. This isn't to say that those papers don't have their own biases, but most educated readers would give them credit as being generally solid, regardless of which side of the aisle they're on. The same isn't true of Chosunilbo, and that's a problem (one that many Koreans who have lived in the West and read real newspapers acknowledge). Generally speaking, the Korean papers with the highest circulation are a lot closer to the New York Post than they are to the New York Times. The quality really is lower.
And please, spare me the rant about my Korea bashing, as I've been at your side defending Korea and Koreans on more than one occasion. |
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rchristo10
Joined: 14 Jul 2009
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2012 3:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
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| So your erudite view is that only the haves deserve the priviledge of responsible journalism. |
No, but that's the way things are. Laws are meaningless without enforcement, and enforcement is highly dependent on influence.
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| Koreans don't "treat" Koreans per se in the newspapers or on the news very often. They discuss issues for what they are, which usually has nothing to do with being Korean or not being Korean. When it comes to reporting similar issues and the culprit happens to be a non-Korean they make a point of not only mentioning it without due reason, but also making racist connections and generalizations (as you see in Case 1) that often have nothing to do with the issues at hand. That's called biased, unethical reporting.True, it's triggered at increasing sales and getting that all-too-well-known CNN Effect, but that doesn't make it right. |
Are you sure? Usually when Koreans write op-ed articles about things Koreans need to change they speak in pretty broad terms.
Remember Cho Seung-Hui? Remember how many Koreans felt the need to apologize and felt they deserved some sort of blame?
So yes, when a group gets blamed, the Koreans are treating you "fairly" in the sense that they are applying the same standards to you as themselves.
| Quote: |
| IRRESPONSIBLE JOURNALISM |
There's a redundancy.
Journalism sources that aren't pushing some kind of an agenda are few and far between. Most journalism sources are either state-run or driven to make a profit, those few that aren't are highly dependent on stable readership and/or funding. If they don't write things that sell, they don't last long.
That's wrong, but that's the way it is. In order to change that you have to change human nature. You have to make it so that people aren't turned on by stories of sex and gore and scandal.
Plus the sad thing is that a media source of integrity is probably going to have a hard time getting some stories, interviews, and leads. Those that it does get will be leaked by people with an agenda who quite likely are masking the full circumstances behind things. Why is anyone going to bother to read that media source if they don't have any breaking stories?
Do we really want responsible journalism or do we actually want the "Pro-Foreigner Mouthpiece"? |
Gosh...I was having fun too...no need to respond to these though...
~~jellyfish -_-
But I will address one:
| Steelrails wrote: |
Are you sure? Usually when Koreans write op-ed articles about things Koreans need to change they speak in pretty broad terms. |
Answer: Yes. How do I know? Because I spend more time learning Korean than doing Dave's (and learning Korean is not my profession). I put in the hard work so that I don't have to rely on guessing and BSing my way through life. You should try it too, so that you can at least have some background in what you're TRYING to write to the public.
It's still hard to imagine a person who can't understand Korean news professing to know what goes on in it.  Steelrails, you are an aberration--an aberration, but I'll still try to treat you as an equal. But like you said, if I don't, you can always flaunt your money, show me your aristocratic livelihood (paper's showing your princehood perhaps) and throw your strong fiscal influence my way...who knows, perhaps then you'd get that respect you're looking for. I'd say don't hold your breath, but well...being a jellyfish and all...
You couldn't even understand the WRITTEN description of the Apgujeong video (I posted) that explained what was going on in the video (whether your "mute button was on" or off is irrelevant--jellyfish). But, like I said, as a Master Guessturer, you found no problem slamming your fist on the desk and writing as forcefully (about something you didn't even understand) as you could.
Lying to us and the reading public is one thing, but you should at least have the integrity to stop lying to yourself. YOU HAVE NO CLUE WHEN IT COMES TO KOREAN NEWS CUZ YOU CAN'T EVEN UNDERSTAND IT! Jellyfish.
You made the distinction above between state-run newspapers and newspapers dependent on readership (mostly tabloids), but did you ever pick up on the fact that I'm talking about mainstream newspapers--none of which need to rely on sensationalism? Try reading the posts more clearly. I've said mainstream papers/ news in several of them. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Sat May 26, 2012 1:36 am Post subject: |
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Answer: Yes. How do I know? Because I spend more time learning Korean than doing Dave's (and learning Korean is not my profession). I put in the hard work so that I don't have to rely on guessing and BSing my way through life. You should try it too, so that you can at least have some background in what you're TRYING to write to the public.
It's still hard to imagine a person who can't understand Korean news professing to know what goes on in it. Steelrails, you are an aberration--an aberration, but I'll still try to treat you as an equal. But like you said, if I don't, you can always flaunt your money, show me your aristocratic livelihood (paper's showing your princehood perhaps) and throw your strong fiscal influence my way...who knows, perhaps then you'd get that respect you're looking for. I'd say don't hold your breath, but well...being a jellyfish and all...
You couldn't even understand the WRITTEN description of the Apgujeong video (I posted) that explained what was going on in the video (whether your "mute button was on" or off is irrelevant--jellyfish). But, like I said, as a Master Guessturer, you found no problem slamming your fist on the desk and writing as forcefully (about something you didn't even understand) as you could.
Lying to us and the reading public is one thing, but you should at least have the integrity to stop lying to yourself. YOU HAVE NO CLUE WHEN IT COMES TO KOREAN NEWS CUZ YOU CAN'T EVEN UNDERSTAND IT! Jellyfish.
You made the distinction above between state-run newspapers and newspapers dependent on readership (mostly tabloids), but did you ever pick up on the fact that I'm talking about mainstream newspapers--none of which need to rely on sensationalism? Try reading the posts more clearly. I've said mainstream papers/ news in several of them. |
Dude, if you have dreams of starting a newspaper, and apparently if a numbskull such as myself can reduce you to this sort of writing style, then you really aren't cut out for the gig...
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| YOU HAVE NO CLUE WHEN IT COMES TO KOREAN NEWS CUZ YOU CAN'T EVEN UNDERSTAND IT! Jellyfish. |
At least I don't live in some fantasy land where the media exists to uphold some sort of journalistic principal and understand that it's driven by profits, serves as a mouthpiece, and is dependent upon advertising. I also understand the saying "if it leads, it bleeds".
What good does knowing Korean do if you don't even understand the nature of a business.
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| but did you ever pick up on the fact that I'm talking about mainstream newspapers--none of which need to rely on sensationalism? |
No, but they do need to rely on sources and access. Those sources and the people that grant access have an agenda and have expectations when they become a source and grant access. What you think the journalists there are strict followers of some sort of journalism Hippocratic Oath?
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| People read the Times, WaPo, and WSJ because they can trust those newspapers to avoid total hack jobs |
You mean that WSJ that helped trumpet the case for invading Iraq because of WMDs? That non-hack job? |
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rchristo10
Joined: 14 Jul 2009
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| Posted: Sat May 26, 2012 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
Dude, if you have dreams of starting a newspaper, and apparently if a numbskull such as myself can reduce you to this sort of writing style, then you really aren't cut out for the gig... |
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| YOU HAVE NO CLUE WHEN IT COMES TO KOREAN NEWS CUZ YOU CAN'T EVEN UNDERSTAND IT! Jellyfish. |
Your poor reading skills at work again? I said, if anything, it would be written in Korean--not English (yes, you are a numbskull apparently...but you called it).
| Steelrails wrote: |
At least I don't live in some fantasy land...
What good does knowing Korean do if you don't even understand the nature of a business. |
Are you sure about that Jellyfish? Do you even know how ridiculous this sounds. "What good does knowing Korean do if you don't even understand the nature of the business." Despite the obvious grammatical mess, do you even think that it makes any logical sense. That's just hilarious.
| Steelrails wrote: |
| Quote: |
| but did you ever pick up on the fact that I'm talking about mainstream newspapers--none of which need to rely on sensationalism? |
No, but they do need to rely on sources and access. |
Is that what sensationalism means to you? You're off topic again. You really do have a reading problem. My point has very little to do with sources and access--two factors that you've lumped together as if they have anything to do with one another. Do you think anything that we've written or posted (even from the OP) has anything to do with sources and access? I can't for the life of me even figure out what you're going on about. Sorry, but I don't speak Jellyfish.
You clearly "understand the nature of [the] business." Goodness me. Are you purposely trying to make yourself look like an idiot, Jellyfish? Comic relief perhaps?
| Steelrails wrote: |
| Quote: |
| People read the Times, WaPo, and WSJ because they can trust those newspapers to avoid total hack jobs |
You mean that WSJ that helped trumpet the case for invading Iraq because of WMDs? That non-hack job? |
After seeing that you pretty much reply to everyone about everything despite how comic and nonsensical your ideas, I'm wondering if you really do have a problem. At first, I reduced it to sheer boredom caused by lack of friends, now I'm thinking you're a bit off. And, the scary thing is that you're likely a teacher here as well.
Have you ever considered thinking about what you're writing before you press the Submit button; rereading your comments (both for grammar and logical cohesion) could help? |
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komerican
Joined: 17 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Sun May 27, 2012 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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| The media in the West is not any more unbiased than Korean media. For example, there are about 5 or 6 massive corporations that control most of the media in the US (Comcast, Disney, Viacom, CBS, News Corp., Time Warner, etc.) You get basically the same homogenized news day in day out. There are lots of Westerners who are open minded but most actually live in what are essentially racially/culturally segregated communities and the media of course reflects that. |
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