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Hoost
Joined: 12 Nov 2008
Location: Seoul
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 Posted: Sat May 26, 2012 3:38 am Post subject: |
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| djg11002323 wrote: |
| I work at a private university. From what I can deduce, our university receives several rather sizable government grants. I know people that work at national universities with bachelors and little to no experience. |
Yes private universities do receive government grants, but are not nearly as depended when compared to national universities (I have worked at both).
I am pretty sure that to become a full-time faculty member (tenure track) you need the qualifications laid out. I know that people with only a bachelor's degree can be hired as an adjunct or "contract-by-contract" basis.
So I guess the question for the OP is not whether he can get a job, but more of what kind of job does he want? Full-time status (and benefits) as a tenure-track professor or just an adjunct? |
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different
Joined: 22 May 2003
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| Posted: Sat May 26, 2012 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| TheTeacher.. wrote: |
| So I finish my MA in Applied Linguistics this September. I've got 3 years hagwon and 2 years Public School experience. How do I get 2 years uni/college experience if I can't get a job in a uni/college?? |
Work at a Unigwon.
Work at adult hakwons that deal mostly with university level students.
Work for a company where you teach adult learners. |
I don't know if that would count. Two years of experience with adult learners isn't the same as two years of uni/college experience. |
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different
Joined: 22 May 2003
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| Posted: Sat May 26, 2012 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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| jammo wrote: |
| Sounds good for the students! |
I don't think so. Presumably universities have always tried to hire the best overall candidates. This rule would just place a restriction on who universities could choose from. In general, university experience is a good thing for an instructor to have, and most universities would rather hire MA holders anyway. But to make a hard and fast rule would automatically eliminate some promising applicants, and therefore could actually be bad for the students. |
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bobbybigfoot
Joined: 05 May 2007
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sun May 27, 2012 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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| 12ax7 wrote: |
Bill Gates, for example, wouldn't be able to teach a business or computer class because he never graduated. |
Would his honorary degrees count? |
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slothrop
Joined: 03 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Sun May 27, 2012 7:35 pm Post subject: |
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edit
Last edited by slothrop on Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:57 am; edited 1 time in total |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Mon May 28, 2012 4:10 am Post subject: |
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Ok now calm down sloth...Gates did change the world of computers but calling him a god is a bit much.  |
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Hoost
Joined: 12 Nov 2008
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2012 11:18 pm Post subject: |
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| different wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| TheTeacher.. wrote: |
| So I finish my MA in Applied Linguistics this September. I've got 3 years hagwon and 2 years Public School experience. How do I get 2 years uni/college experience if I can't get a job in a uni/college?? |
Work at a Unigwon.
Work at adult hakwons that deal mostly with university level students.
Work for a company where you teach adult learners. |
I don't know if that would count. Two years of experience with adult learners isn't the same as two years of uni/college experience. |
This is not true.
The way that a public university counts "experience" is on a scale. For example, if you work at a hakwon with only little children, they will give you 20-50% credit toward it being relevant work experience.
It does NOT have to be just teaching either... as universities focus more upon research than teaching.
Your best bet is to focus on publishing some research in order to land a good university full time job. Part of the 2 year requirement can be RESEARCH oriented positions.
When I applied for my university position, I had published 3 articles in journals, published a textbook, and spoke at a variety of International Symposiums. When I applied, they didn't really ask me much about my teaching philosophies or what not. They cared more about my research efforts.
Few people realize that university positions are NOT about teaching, but more about research. |
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different
Joined: 22 May 2003
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 10:15 am Post subject: |
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That may be what some universities have been doing, but I don't know what the government's rule is or might be. So I don't know if adult hagwon experience would count. Maybe it would count, I don't know.
Are university instructor positions about research? I'm not talking about tenure track positions, I mean just English teacher positions. |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 8:03 pm Post subject: |
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The government has budgeted millions (and millions) of dollars for universities to hire more full-time professors who are producing publishable research in an effort to get at least one Korean university into the top 10 internationally. The hiring of Nobel laureate Thomas Sargent at SNU for more than a cool million per annum is part of this effort.
The great majority of English professors/instructors don't publish in internationally recognized journals and thus don't qualify for tenure-track positions. Of course, with the teaching load most have, they don't really have time for research.
And that's the problem Korean universities are facing, private as well as public since the government controls all education. They can't afford to hire enough Ph.d.'s at salaries high enough to attract that many and give them the lesser teaching loads needed by professors doing research. And the government is squeezing them to do just that, all for the rankings.
So those teaching English with fairly slim credentials or at the wrong university at the wrong time could find themselves in a tight spot. |
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hellofaniceguy
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: On your computer screen!
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| Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 10:34 am Post subject: |
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| 12ax7 wrote: |
It's definitely not a government requirement, nor will it ever be.
Bill Gates, for example, wouldn't be able to teach a business or computer class because he never graduated. |
How much do you want to bet...that if Gates was to come to korea and wanted to teach English....he would get special permission to teach without having a degree! And he would not need a CRC! |
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Whitey Otez
Joined: 31 May 2003
Location: The suburbs of Seoul
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 6:39 am Post subject: |
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| atwood wrote: |
So those teaching English with fairly slim credentials or at the wrong university at the wrong time could find themselves in a tight spot. |
We are seeing this at the adult hagwon level now. Applicants are coming in from university jobs (that they presumably lost to not having a MA), asking what kind of deal we have for them. They don't want the hours or the low pay or the pressure of having to produce real-world results. It's like going from flying first class to coach for them. I expect a lot of them will end up getting on at a uni in the boonies come August when the properly qualified applicants settle on the good universities. There's always China for the ones brave and free enough to give it a shot. |
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Hoost
Joined: 12 Nov 2008
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 6:20 am Post subject: |
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I don't know where you get all this misinformation. There is so much misinformation coming hearsay.
| atwood wrote: |
The great majority of English professors/instructors don't publish in internationally recognized journals and thus don't qualify for tenure-track positions. Of course, with the teaching load most have, they don't really have time for research. |
I've had coworkers hired with absolutely nothing published in any journals whatsoever. Also, general tenure-track hours are 6-9 hours a week of instruction. Even contracted full-time faculty (lecturers) usually require usually around 12 hours a week. Personally, I teach 9 hours a week, get paid quite well, and have plenty time for research. Not to mention, I get 5 months paid vacation.
| atwood wrote: |
| And that's the problem Korean universities are facing, private as well as public since the government controls all education. |
No. There are private universities.
| atwood wrote: |
They can't afford to hire enough Ph.d.'s at salaries high enough to attract that many and give them the lesser teaching loads needed by professors doing research.
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Starting salaries for many tenure-track positions range from 40million-60million depending on university and department. I know. I have applied for these positions. This is not so different than starting salaries for tenure-track professors in the US. |
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liveinkorea316
Joined: 20 Aug 2010
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Starting salaries for many tenure-track positions range from 40million-60million depending on university and department. I know. I have applied for these positions. This is not so different than starting salaries for tenure-track professors in the US. |
40million = USD 40,000 per annum. That is extremely low for a professor even entry level. Most countries a professor would start bare bones on 60k upwards with healthy raises.
That is was Atwood was talking about. Apart from a few belated attempts Korea does not seem interested in paying the money that professors demand. A professor who started on 60k would be on 120k after 5 years. Then South Korean universities would not want him/her. But this would be a regular young up and coming professor. Professor with famous publications to their name requires a cool million.
Korean universities, according to atwood are not willing to pay international market rated to get international faculty in anything except hard sciences as far as I can see because hard sciences are a dime a dozen from India and they will take 40k per year. |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 4:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Hoost wrote: |
I don't know where you get all this misinformation. There is so much misinformation coming hearsay.
| atwood wrote: |
The great majority of English professors/instructors don't publish in internationally recognized journals and thus don't qualify for tenure-track positions. Of course, with the teaching load most have, they don't really have time for research. |
I've had coworkers hired with absolutely nothing published in any journals whatsoever. Also, general tenure-track hours are 6-9 hours a week of instruction. Even contracted full-time faculty (lecturers) usually require usually around 12 hours a week. Personally, I teach 9 hours a week, get paid quite well, and have plenty time for research. Not to mention, I get 5 months paid vacation.
| atwood wrote: |
| And that's the problem Korean universities are facing, private as well as public since the government controls all education. |
No. There are private universities.
| atwood wrote: |
They can't afford to hire enough Ph.d.'s at salaries high enough to attract that many and give them the lesser teaching loads needed by professors doing research.
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Starting salaries for many tenure-track positions range from 40million-60million depending on university and department. I know. I have applied for these positions. This is not so different than starting salaries for tenure-track professors in the US. |
Private universities are regulated by the government in a number of ways. That's not misinformation.
You've misunderstood parts of my post. I'm saying that they can't afford to replace all the current instructors/adjuncts they currently use with full-time tenure track people. The general tenure track conditions you refer to apply to only approximately 50% of instructors/professors at Korean universities. At one SKY university only 35% of professors are full-time.
The government is dedicating a lot of money to change that situation, but it won't be enough for all universities to replace so many instructors/adjuncts with full-time tenure track people. |
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Konglishman
Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Location: Nanjing
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| Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Hoost wrote: |
I don't know where you get all this misinformation. There is so much misinformation coming hearsay.
| atwood wrote: |
The great majority of English professors/instructors don't publish in internationally recognized journals and thus don't qualify for tenure-track positions. Of course, with the teaching load most have, they don't really have time for research. |
I've had coworkers hired with absolutely nothing published in any journals whatsoever. Also, general tenure-track hours are 6-9 hours a week of instruction. Even contracted full-time faculty (lecturers) usually require usually around 12 hours a week. Personally, I teach 9 hours a week, get paid quite well, and have plenty time for research. Not to mention, I get 5 months paid vacation.
| atwood wrote: |
| And that's the problem Korean universities are facing, private as well as public since the government controls all education. |
No. There are private universities.
| atwood wrote: |
| They can't afford to hire enough Ph.d.'s at salaries high enough to attract that many and give them the lesser teaching loads needed by professors doing research. |
Starting salaries for many tenure-track positions range from 40million-60million depending on university and department. I know. I
have applied for these positions. This is not so different than starting
salaries for tenure-track professors in the US. |
In fact, even private universities fall under the control of the Ministry of Education. Of course, I guess that depends on how you define "control". Anyways, just to give an example, when a professor (including non-tenure track) leaves a university, the university in question is required to give a reason saying why the professor is leaving... Now, obviously some universities may actually lie to the Ministry of Education as a matter of convenience with regards to why a given professor is leaving.
Also, with regards to private universities, the law requires that you are given a four month notice of nonrenewal if your work contract is not being renewed. Further, if you so wish have a right to appeal your nonrenewal. And if your appeal is unsuccessful, you can then appeal to the Ministry of Education. Of course, in many cases, private universities may not bother to inform foreign professors of their right to appeal. |
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