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Who's Your Daddy?
Joined: 30 May 2010
Location: Victoria, Canada.
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 Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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| VTsoi wrote: |
| Julius wrote: |
| sml7285 wrote: |
I had one family experience that stood out and really changed my perceptions.
The American wife was out of the loop and seemed extremely uncomfortable at times. |
Duh of course she's going to be uncomfortable. Anyone would be if they are surrounded by people talking in a different language that they do not understand.
If you don't get this concept, then you really haven't travelled much in the world.
Your family are Americans, in America. You're supposed to learn English and integrate for pity's sakes. Not form ethnic enclaves to protect yourselves from reality. |
I imagine you operate in Korea like a fish swimming in water, chatting to adjumma in Korean about last night's variety shows and knocking back soju with the fellas over a plate of jokbal. Nope, you're certainly not hiding out in an enclave yourself. |
Please direct me to the enclave, I want to live there. There is no enclave, it's isolation mostly. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| . The problem though was that each night, when the kids all took off to play together and the men all hung out drinking and chatting, the women would get together as well, packing lunches for the next day and just gossiping in Korean. The American wife was out of the loop and seemed extremely uncomfortable at times. |
Maybe she was out of the loop and uncomfortable at the fact that the men and women separated into different groups to socialise like a scene in some nineteenth century country house. Men discussing politics over the cigars and port and women gossiping over their embroidery. is that what life is still like in the US?  |
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shostahoosier
Joined: 14 Apr 2009
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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This conversation always makes me scratch my head.
Do foreign men really think they are so exciting and exotic that Korean women fantasize about leaving their "stressful" life and culture behind?
I would think its similar to interracial dating back home. Some people wonder what it would be like and a few might even go for it. Then you have a small group that might prefer it, but the vast majority of people don't think about it on a daily basis.
I think foreigners tend to see things in a bubble where we think we're in the back of Korean's minds 24/7. This hasn't been the case with the Korean people I know. I know the negative news articles might make you feel otherwise, but I think the vast majorities of Koreans are worried about how they're going to get a good job so they can get married, have a kid, and get him into a good university so he can get a good job, get married, have a kid....you get the point. |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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| shostahoosier wrote: |
This conversation always makes me scratch my head.
Do foreign men really think they are so exciting and exotic that Korean women fantasize about leaving their "stressful" life and culture behind?
I would think its similar to interracial dating back home. Some people wonder what it would be like and a few might even go for it. Then you have a small group that might prefer it, but the vast majority of people don't think about it on a daily basis.
I think foreigners tend to see things in a bubble where we think we're in the back of Korean's minds 24/7. This hasn't been the case with the Korean people I know. I know the negative news articles might make you feel otherwise, but I think the vast majorities of Koreans are worried about how they're going to get a good job so they can get married, have a kid, and get him into a good university so he can get a good job, get married, have a kid....you get the point. |
By no means did I mean to take it to the degree Julius did, I merely wanted to point out that there are ways in which it's less stressful to be married to a foreigner, given the familial obligations of Korean family life. |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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I agree with the poster who said that while survey respondents say they would (Might?--Koreans have trouble with conditionals), most wouldn't have the courage and those that did might do it secretly. I've known several foreigners--male and female--who've had serious relationships with Koreans, or so they thought, only to be dumped unceremoniously when it came time to get serious about finding a spouse.
A taste for forbidden fruit does not a change in attitude make. |
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shostahoosier
Joined: 14 Apr 2009
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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| northway wrote: |
By no means did I mean to take it to the degree Julius did, I merely wanted to point out that there are ways in which it's less stressful to be married to a foreigner, given the familial obligations of Korean family life. |
Oh no worries, my point wasn't directed at your or really any one in particular as much as it was this whole phenomena of foreign men being "handsome" and "lusted after" by Korean models.
I think there are definitely curious Koreans (I know a few) but I think like most cultures, in the end people will prefer to stay with their own because despite the stress, it's still what they'll find the most comfortable. |
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The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
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| Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 6:18 am Post subject: |
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| sml7285 wrote: |
I was born in the States and have lived here for 23 years. Like most minorities growing up, I went through several identity crises. Still, after all that, I can almost guarantee you that I will marry a Korean woman.
"Why?" you might ask. If I have dated predominantly white females while in the States, shouldn't I be more open to interracial marriage? |
Because, despite the fact that you had the opportunity to be raised in America...and think of yourself as American...you see yourself as Korean?
It really isn't much of a stretch.
That little story of yours paints kind of a sad story on culture integration. |
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comm
Joined: 22 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:21 am Post subject: |
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| sml7285 wrote: |
| Julius wrote: |
Duh of course she's going to be uncomfortable. Anyone would be if they are surrounded by people talking in a different language that they do not understand.
If you don't get this concept, then you really haven't travelled much in the world.
Your family are Americans, in America. You're supposed to learn English and integrate for pity's sakes. Not form ethnic enclaves to protect yourselves from reality. |
We do. Did I ever say we didn't? My parents have been in the States for close to 30 years. My dad is a tenured professor of Journalism and received a Fulbright Grant a few years ago to teach in Singapore. You don't get those by "[forming] ethnic enclaves to protect yourselves from reality." My mom regularly attends and volunteers for a Presbyterian non-Korean church. I have one Korean friend. All my other friends are of different races. |
Actually SML, I'm pretty sure that Julius was referring primarily to your family members. You know, the part where you said
| sml7285 wrote: |
| The American wife was out of the loop and seemed extremely uncomfortable at times. Though my mom tried to include her in the conversations, the language barrier at times between the group was too much at times. |
It shouldn't be unreasonable for them to be capable of holding the majority of their conversations in English if they've spent years in the U.S. and are in mixed-language company. It's great that your dad is a tenured professor of Journalism, but he obviously wasn't the problem here. |
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sml7285
Joined: 26 Apr 2012
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| Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:38 am Post subject: |
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| comm wrote: |
| sml7285 wrote: |
| Julius wrote: |
Duh of course she's going to be uncomfortable. Anyone would be if they are surrounded by people talking in a different language that they do not understand.
If you don't get this concept, then you really haven't travelled much in the world.
Your family are Americans, in America. You're supposed to learn English and integrate for pity's sakes. Not form ethnic enclaves to protect yourselves from reality. |
We do. Did I ever say we didn't? My parents have been in the States for close to 30 years. My dad is a tenured professor of Journalism and received a Fulbright Grant a few years ago to teach in Singapore. You don't get those by "[forming] ethnic enclaves to protect yourselves from reality." My mom regularly attends and volunteers for a Presbyterian non-Korean church. I have one Korean friend. All my other friends are of different races. |
Actually SML, I'm pretty sure that Julius was referring primarily to your family members. You know, the part where you said
| sml7285 wrote: |
| The American wife was out of the loop and seemed extremely uncomfortable at times. Though my mom tried to include her in the conversations, the language barrier at times between the group was too much at times. |
It shouldn't be unreasonable for them to be capable of holding the majority of their conversations in English if they've spent years in the U.S. and are in mixed-language company. It's great that your dad is a tenured professor of Journalism, but he obviously wasn't the problem here. |
So you're saying that even among family, that we, as a successfully integrated family, should all speak English because of the one single non-Korean speaking person among 25-30 people?
The fact of the matter is that most of the people there did speak English to her. Pretty much all the kids (me included) speak English to each other, but speak Korean to the adults. The adults can speak English, but prefer Korean. Imagine how you would feel if you were among people who spoke a language other than English and they had to change the tongue they were speaking in every time you entered the room. Most people would feel like an inconvenience.
This isn't a matter of integrating. Pretty much all of the members of my extended family are able to speak English and are integrated into the idea of America in whatever cities they live in. However, at home and among other Koreans, they speak Korean. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
| Quote: |
| . The problem though was that each night, when the kids all took off to play together and the men all hung out drinking and chatting, the women would get together as well, packing lunches for the next day and just gossiping in Korean. The American wife was out of the loop and seemed extremely uncomfortable at times. |
Maybe she was out of the loop and uncomfortable at the fact that the men and women separated into different groups to socialise like a scene in some nineteenth century country house. Men discussing politics over the cigars and port and women gossiping over their embroidery. is that what life is still like in the US? |
Try men talking about football and drinking beer and women shopping or talking about TV.
I don't think too many women are keen on discussing Mel Kiper, Jr.'s Big Board |
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Malislamusrex
Joined: 01 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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| I've conducted my own research. From my random sample, 100% of foreigners who move to Korea get married. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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Try men talking about football and drinking beer and women shopping or talking about TV.
I don't think too many women are keen on discussing Mel Kiper, Jr.'s Big Board |
Sexist |
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different
Joined: 22 May 2003
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| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 6:31 am Post subject: |
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| KimchiNinja wrote: |
The 72% of women "would like to date a foreigner" statistic doesn't sound real.
Perhaps in some secret fantasy world they have, but the average Korean woman 1) has no understanding of other cultures or relating, and 2) is very influenced by what society thinks of her, thus would never actually do it in real life.
Agree with the 18% have actually done it, that sounds about right. |
I thought 18% sounded high, especially if that's an average between Korean men and women. Who was in the survey sample? |
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byrddogs
Joined: 19 Jun 2009
Location: Shanghai
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| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 6:39 am Post subject: |
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| The Cosmic Hum wrote: |
| sml7285 wrote: |
I was born in the States and have lived here for 23 years. Like most minorities growing up, I went through several identity crises. Still, after all that, I can almost guarantee you that I will marry a Korean woman.
"Why?" you might ask. If I have dated predominantly white females while in the States, shouldn't I be more open to interracial marriage? |
Because, despite the fact that you had the opportunity to be raised in America...and think of yourself as American...you see yourself as Korean?
It really isn't much of a stretch.
That little story of yours paints kind of a sad story on culture integration. |
While I can appreciate your decision on your future wife choice, I am curious as to how much, if any, influence you are getting from the 20-30 group gathering crowd of your kin to do so. |
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Zyzyfer
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: who, what, where, when, why, how?
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| Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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| different wrote: |
| KimchiNinja wrote: |
The 72% of women "would like to date a foreigner" statistic doesn't sound real.
Perhaps in some secret fantasy world they have, but the average Korean woman 1) has no understanding of other cultures or relating, and 2) is very influenced by what society thinks of her, thus would never actually do it in real life.
Agree with the 18% have actually done it, that sounds about right. |
I thought 18% sounded high, especially if that's an average between Korean men and women. Who was in the survey sample? |
18% is ridiculously high considering the percentage of foreigners that make up the country's population.
| sml7285 wrote: |
| So you're saying that even among family, that we, as a successfully integrated family, should all speak English because of the one single non-Korean speaking person among 25-30 people? |
Well I'd frame it differently. Imagine if a Korean spouse of an American goes to a party and there are tons of other Westerners there. The Korean spouse isn't all that hot at English, but the Westerners can manage to speak Korean. Still, the Westerners don't bother all that much, and the Korean spouse ends up sitting there with not much to say or do.
It's not a very inviting atmosphere for the Korean spouse.
And since you chalked the issue up to a language barrier in your first post, I suspect there's a bit more going on there, it's more likely that the American wife just didn't click with the group overall. I wouldn't go so far as to say your family should straight up speak English for the sake of one person, but some of them making a point to converse more than briefly with the woman would have gone a long way.
I take issue with this particular topic because I've brought my girlfriend to friends' parties and she just ended up sitting around because no one made a proper effort to make her feel welcome. Because of that, she decided not to go to these parties, and I in turn stopped bothering to ask her. Then my friends start asking why they never see her, and I just shake my head.
The American woman's husband probably had to pull her leg to get her to come in the first place, so of course when she's stuck sitting around with her thumb up her ass, she's going to want to go home. |
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