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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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 Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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Published: May 18, 2012 at 2:38 PM
SEOUL, May 18 (UPI) -- Tens of billions of won have been discovered in a bank account linked to deceased South Korean President Roh Moo-hyun's older brother, prosecutors said Friday.
The discovery comes amid allegations Roh Geon-pyeong accepted $801,360 in bribes to influence the award of a land reclamation contract while his younger brother served as president. |
Corruption is as Korean as kimchi. |
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matthews_world
Joined: 15 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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Confucianism is detremental to modern Korean society. It keeps its citizens in their place, overregulates businesses (that's why there are chaebol's, governmentally regulated pricing system, etc.) and creates a Big Brother-type atmostphere - just look at all the CCTV's.
Living in Korea these days feels possibly similar to North Korea. |
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earthquakez
Joined: 10 Nov 2010
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 9:17 pm Post subject: |
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Edited double post.
Last edited by earthquakez on Thu May 31, 2012 9:30 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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earthquakez
Joined: 10 Nov 2010
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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Edited because of triple posting.
Last edited by earthquakez on Thu May 31, 2012 9:28 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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earthquakez
Joined: 10 Nov 2010
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 9:23 pm Post subject: |
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| atwood wrote: |
| Quote: |
Published: May 18, 2012 at 2:38 PM
SEOUL, May 18 (UPI) -- Tens of billions of won have been discovered in a bank account linked to deceased South Korean President Roh Moo-hyun's older brother, prosecutors said Friday.
The discovery comes amid allegations Roh Geon-pyeong accepted $801,360 in bribes to influence the award of a land reclamation contract while his younger brother served as president. |
Corruption is as Korean as kimchi. |
Corruption exists where human beings exist. It's hardly confined to Korea although the cultural expression is different from that in western countries, for example.
In the UK politicians claimed for rental expenses and renovation expenses that never existed because they were staying free of charge elsewhere, they also ran up huge bills for travel and other means of junketing. When the former Prime Minister of Australia, Kevin Rudd, went to a big Global Warming Conference he took a record number of family friends, relatives, hangers on etc as did his staff. UK politicians have done similar but none come near to this nothing to be proud of Rudd 'record'.
Corruption is inbuilt to the US Senate/Congressional system by the sweetheart deals of politicians and lobbyists. American politicians take money and gifts from donors in exchange for favours - it's just done differently from in Korea.
In the US dangerous chemicals are allowed into food and beverages as well as household goods because of the influence of big corporations over the FDA while small and middle farmers have to shoot their pigs because of a small similarity to a wild pig that the health authorities deem dangerous, and suffer heavy financial losses. These farmers are being driven to bankruptcy and in a few cases, suicide, by Federal raids.
Farmers who produce raw milk that is perfectly safe have been forced at gunpoint (literally, not figuratively) by Federal Agents to pour out all the milk and ruin themselves financially.  Middle and small farmers are being driven to ruin by new regulations enforced at gunpoint while corporations thrive despite independent scientists, researchers and medical practitioners questioning the safety of their products.
If this is not corruption designed to help corporate allies of politicians, I don't know what it is.
And did you ever hear about the former politician now talkshown host in the south of the US who had a murdered assistant in his office? The media blacked out that case. When finally some news emerged she supposedly suffered a 'heart attack' while in fact she had injuries consistent with being fatally attacked. This did not go to court. Sounds corrupt to me.
Oh and the UK has far more CCTV cameras than Korea. |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 10:29 pm Post subject: |
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| earthquakez wrote: |
| atwood wrote: |
| Quote: |
Published: May 18, 2012 at 2:38 PM
SEOUL, May 18 (UPI) -- Tens of billions of won have been discovered in a bank account linked to deceased South Korean President Roh Moo-hyun's older brother, prosecutors said Friday.
The discovery comes amid allegations Roh Geon-pyeong accepted $801,360 in bribes to influence the award of a land reclamation contract while his younger brother served as president. |
Corruption is as Korean as kimchi. |
Corruption exists where human beings exist. It's hardly confined to Korea although the cultural expression is different from that in western countries, for example.
In the UK politicians claimed for rental expenses and renovation expenses that never existed because they were staying free of charge elsewhere, they also ran up huge bills for travel and other means of junketing. When the former Prime Minister of Australia, Kevin Rudd, went to a big Global Warming Conference he took a record number of family friends, relatives, hangers on etc as did his staff. UK politicians have done similar but none come near to this nothing to be proud of Rudd 'record'.
Corruption is inbuilt to the US Senate/Congressional system by the sweetheart deals of politicians and lobbyists. American politicians take money and gifts from donors in exchange for favours - it's just done differently from in Korea.
In the US dangerous chemicals are allowed into food and beverages as well as household goods because of the influence of big corporations over the FDA while small and middle farmers have to shoot their pigs because of a small similarity to a wild pig that the health authorities deem dangerous, and suffer heavy financial losses. These farmers are being driven to bankruptcy and in a few cases, suicide, by Federal raids.
Farmers who produce raw milk that is perfectly safe have been forced at gunpoint (literally, not figuratively) by Federal Agents to pour out all the milk and ruin themselves financially. Middle and small farmers are being driven to ruin by new regulations enforced at gunpoint while corporations thrive despite independent scientists, researchers and medical practitioners questioning the safety of their products.
If this is not corruption designed to help corporate allies of politicians, I don't know what it is.
And did you ever hear about the former politician now talkshown host in the south of the US who had a murdered assistant in his office? The media blacked out that case. When finally some news emerged she supposedly suffered a 'heart attack' while in fact she had injuries consistent with being fatally attacked. This did not go to court. Sounds corrupt to me.
Oh and the UK has far more CCTV cameras than Korea. |
Corruption is not "inbuilt" into the American system.
The FDA is not an intrinsically corrupt organization. Small farms may well be having a hard time with regulation that wasn't designed for such niche operations but there have been significant changes made to accommodate them recently. As for raw milk being "perfectly safe":
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"A recent study by the Centers for Disease Control, echoing the public health consensus, says credible scientific evidence for such health claims is lacking. That study also noted that illnesses associated with raw milk tend to make people sicker than those linked to pasteurized dairy products.
"The incidence of illness linked to any milk products is quite low, said Fred Pritzker, a Minneapolis attorney who has represented about 20 victims of raw milk-related food poisoning. But if disease strikes with raw milk, he likened the experience to driving without a seat belt. 'When you get hit, you're really going to get hurt.'" |
As for your final anecdote, you "heard" about something happening? That's persuasive. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:27 am Post subject: |
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| atwood wrote: |
| Quote: |
Published: May 18, 2012 at 2:38 PM
SEOUL, May 18 (UPI) -- Tens of billions of won have been discovered in a bank account linked to deceased South Korean President Roh Moo-hyun's older brother, prosecutors said Friday.
The discovery comes amid allegations Roh Geon-pyeong accepted $801,360 in bribes to influence the award of a land reclamation contract while his younger brother served as president. |
Corruption is as Korean as kimchi. |
Out of 182 countries (1 being best and 182 being the worst) Korea placed 43rd...better than average.
http://cpi.transparency.org/cpi2011/results/
And for being the world's foremost democracy the U.S scored a shockingly low 24th place...to give you an idea Australia placed 8th while Canada got 10th place overall. |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 4:21 am Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| atwood wrote: |
| Quote: |
Published: May 18, 2012 at 2:38 PM
SEOUL, May 18 (UPI) -- Tens of billions of won have been discovered in a bank account linked to deceased South Korean President Roh Moo-hyun's older brother, prosecutors said Friday.
The discovery comes amid allegations Roh Geon-pyeong accepted $801,360 in bribes to influence the award of a land reclamation contract while his younger brother served as president. |
Corruption is as Korean as kimchi. |
Out of 182 countries (1 being best and 182 being the worst) Korea placed 43rd...better than average.
http://cpi.transparency.org/cpi2011/results/
And for being the world's foremost democracy the U.S scored a shockingly low 24th place...to give you an idea Australia placed 8th while Canada got 10th place overall. |
You seem to make it a habit when you post statistics, which is your favored method of discourse, of leaving out part of the story. Korea scored a 5.4 out of 10, so according to the statistics you referred to, which are compiled based on "perceptions of corruption" Korea is a little better than average, just.
Besides, that other countries may be more corrupt than Korea doesn't make Korea any less corrupt .
That you describe the U.S.'s score as "shockingly low" merely shows the inroads conservatives have made over the past few decades. I think, as progressives continue to push back, the U.S. will score better in the "perceptions" you make so much of. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 10:55 pm Post subject: |
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| atwood wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| atwood wrote: |
| Quote: |
Published: May 18, 2012 at 2:38 PM
SEOUL, May 18 (UPI) -- Tens of billions of won have been discovered in a bank account linked to deceased South Korean President Roh Moo-hyun's older brother, prosecutors said Friday.
The discovery comes amid allegations Roh Geon-pyeong accepted $801,360 in bribes to influence the award of a land reclamation contract while his younger brother served as president. |
Corruption is as Korean as kimchi. |
Out of 182 countries (1 being best and 182 being the worst) Korea placed 43rd...better than average.
http://cpi.transparency.org/cpi2011/results/
And for being the world's foremost democracy the U.S scored a shockingly low 24th place...to give you an idea Australia placed 8th while Canada got 10th place overall. |
You seem to make it a habit when you post statistics, which is your favored method of discourse, of leaving out part of the story. Korea scored a 5.4 out of 10, so according to the statistics you referred to, which are compiled based on "perceptions of corruption" Korea is a little better than average, just.
Besides, that other countries may be more corrupt than Korea doesn't make Korea any less corrupt .
That you describe the U.S.'s score as "shockingly low" merely shows the inroads conservatives have made over the past few decades. I think, as progressives continue to push back, the U.S. will score better in the "perceptions" you make so much of. |
Yes. Relying on FACTS...(stats and such) is my favoured method of discourse. I think this board would be a whole lot better (if somewhat dryer) if more people did that as well.
No it doesn't make Korea any less corrupt...it does however serve to put the lie to "Corruption is as Korean as kimchi" since Korea is better than most countries indeed better than the average.
I described the U.S's score as shockingly low because I was comparing it with its Western Anglo-Saxon counterparts. If Canada and Australia can get 8th and 10th place respectively that shows there's plenty of room for improvement in the U.S. U.K and Ireland got 16th and 19th BTW so yes the U.S as the world's foremost democracy should be doing better. |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 1:22 am Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| atwood wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| atwood wrote: |
| Quote: |
Published: May 18, 2012 at 2:38 PM
SEOUL, May 18 (UPI) -- Tens of billions of won have been discovered in a bank account linked to deceased South Korean President Roh Moo-hyun's older brother, prosecutors said Friday.
The discovery comes amid allegations Roh Geon-pyeong accepted $801,360 in bribes to influence the award of a land reclamation contract while his younger brother served as president. |
Corruption is as Korean as kimchi. |
Out of 182 countries (1 being best and 182 being the worst) Korea placed 43rd...better than average.
http://cpi.transparency.org/cpi2011/results/
And for being the world's foremost democracy the U.S scored a shockingly low 24th place...to give you an idea Australia placed 8th while Canada got 10th place overall. |
You seem to make it a habit when you post statistics, which is your favored method of discourse, of leaving out part of the story. Korea scored a 5.4 out of 10, so according to the statistics you referred to, which are compiled based on "perceptions of corruption" Korea is a little better than average, just.
Besides, that other countries may be more corrupt than Korea doesn't make Korea any less corrupt .
That you describe the U.S.'s score as "shockingly low" merely shows the inroads conservatives have made over the past few decades. I think, as progressives continue to push back, the U.S. will score better in the "perceptions" you make so much of. |
Yes. Relying on FACTS...(stats and such) is my favoured method of discourse. I think this board would be a whole lot better (if somewhat dryer) if more people did that as well.
No it doesn't make Korea any less corrupt...it does however serve to put the lie to "Corruption is as Korean as kimchi" since Korea is better than most countries indeed better than the average.
I described the U.S's score as shockingly low because I was comparing it with its Western Anglo-Saxon counterparts. If Canada and Australia can get 8th and 10th place respectively that shows there's plenty of room for improvement in the U.S. U.K and Ireland got 16th and 19th BTW so yes the U.S as the world's foremost democracy should be doing better. |
So stick with the facts. ALL the facts, not just a few selectively chosen ones.
Those statistics do not, as you claim, "put the lie to" my statement regarding corruption in Korea. What happens in other countries in no way affects the fact, you like facts, you say, that the culture in Korea encourages corruption.
Now you'll post a FEW links to a FEW high level persons being prosecuted for corruption, usually of a very brazen sort. And then claim that that proves Korea and corruption aren't tied at the hip. But a few highly publicized cases can't cover up all the many, many others, big and small.
That the U.S. , according to you and the ONE website you referenced, "should be doing better" has nothing to do with corruption in Korea. Facts are important, but they should apply to the topic of discussion, not distract from it. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 2:28 am Post subject: |
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The issue with your stance atwood is that when people start talking about political corruption and quantify it (it is the most corruption, it is more corrupted than...) then that opens the door to and in fact requires comparison. I think that this is simply what Urban did.
So when you said "corruption is as Korean as Kimchi" that quantified what you feel is the level of corruption in Korea. You statement means you think corruption is common place in Korea. Well guess what, Korea does not operate in a bubble and state corruption IS something that is compared all the time in order to measure its true extent.
Doing that does not mean anyone is saying Korea does not have corruption, in fact that is not what Urban was doing at all. What he did however, did slow down (just a little) the rush to judge by some in here because when you introduce facts into a discussion, oddly, those people who prefer to toss about unfounded bash comments find it harder to do so.... |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 5:05 am Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
The issue with your stance atwood is that when people start talking about political corruption and quantify it (it is the most corruption, it is more corrupted than...) then that opens the door to and in fact requires comparison. I think that this is simply what Urban did.
So when you said "corruption is as Korean as Kimchi" that quantified what you feel is the level of corruption in Korea. You statement means you think corruption is common place in Korea. Well guess what, Korea does not operate in a bubble and state corruption IS something that is compared all the time in order to measure its true extent.
Doing that does not mean anyone is saying Korea does not have corruption, in fact that is not what Urban was doing at all. What he did however, did slow down (just a little) the rush to judge by some in here because when you introduce facts into a discussion, oddly, those people who prefer to toss about unfounded bash comments find it harder to do so.... |
Knowledge doesn't require comparison. Your whole thesis is wrong. I don't have to compare the temperature to that of every other locality on the planet to know whether it's hot or cold or whether the sky is clear or cloudy.
That corruption is compared doesn't have any bearing on how corrupt Korea is. And you've added the modality of "state" corruption, to what end I don't know since corruption exists beyond the "state."
Your belief that I'm quantifying anything is also wrong. Corruption is interwoven into the fabric of Korean culture. |
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earthquakez
Joined: 10 Nov 2010
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| Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 6:25 am Post subject: |
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| atwood wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
The issue with your stance atwood is that when people start talking about political corruption and quantify it (it is the most corruption, it is more corrupted than...) then that opens the door to and in fact requires comparison. I think that this is simply what Urban did.
So when you said "corruption is as Korean as Kimchi" that quantified what you feel is the level of corruption in Korea. You statement means you think corruption is common place in Korea. Well guess what, Korea does not operate in a bubble and state corruption IS something that is compared all the time in order to measure its true extent.
Doing that does not mean anyone is saying Korea does not have corruption, in fact that is not what Urban was doing at all. What he did however, did slow down (just a little) the rush to judge by some in here because when you introduce facts into a discussion, oddly, those people who prefer to toss about unfounded bash comments find it harder to do so.... |
Knowledge doesn't require comparison. Your whole thesis is wrong. I don't have to compare the temperature to that of every other locality on the planet to know whether it's hot or cold or whether the sky is clear or cloudy.
That corruption is compared doesn't have any bearing on how corrupt Korea is. And you've added the modality of "state" corruption, to what end I don't know since corruption exists beyond the "state."
Your belief that I'm quantifying anything is also wrong. Corruption is interwoven into the fabric of Korean culture. |
 You're rather proud of belonging to the school of 'If I state it over and over again then I can railroad through a pseudo truth that everybody must accept although it isn't actually true.'
Are you American? If you are, you should have failed your country's history as a school/university subject. Corruption is supposedly now 'inbuilt' into the 'fabric' of Korean culture? Do you know any history of any countries in the world, particularly southern European countries as well as Asian countries?
Corruption in ruling regimes/governments of all persuasions has been a large component of most countries' histories. As I said before, it's just manifested differently in other cultures and the fact that you gave no thought whatsoever to the well documented relationship of politicians of all political persuasions with corporations and their lobbyists which has resulted in some appalling situations that have no place in a democracy shows how 'normal' the payola for politicians is seen although in fact it is corruption purely and simply.
Corruption has a well documented history in the US. The 19th century and early to mid 20th century in the USA were the centuries of the robber barons, payola to politicians, the banker takeover of the US Government's finances in order to clear the way for a minority to influence the laws of the land so as to enrich themselves further, the introduction of a tax system that spared the wealthy/millionaires and started the process of leeching from ordinary people to subsidise the wealthy/millionaires' financial piracy, the corruption of Wall Street that led to the deliberate collapse of the stock market and again consolidation of wealth into the hands of a minority etc etc.
Yes - this is still happening in the US. It's called institutionalised corruption and is epitomised in Obama's govt by Goldman Sachs personnel influencing key financial decisions while their criminals are still doing business in the US and elsewhere. No prosecutions of the banksters have taken place under Obama's government - the protection of these criminals is corrupt and reflects systematic corruption in the US.
The financial 'City of London' (there are actually two separate city of London entities and mayors) is another example. We hear about the Cayman Islands being a major money launderer but did you know that the financial City of London also has a major role in facilitating the laundering of dirty money from all over the world? You're probably too lazy to do any research but the billions of won in Mr Noh's son's bank account looks like small change compared to what the financial city of London gets up to and what UK politicians hide from the public regarding their links to this parasitical entity. |
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Yaya
Joined: 25 Feb 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 8:48 am Post subject: |
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| Atwood sounds like certain Western expats in Asia who insist they're right because they say so and the like, and can get nasty when someone brings to light their logical fallacies. Like I said, I'm neither a Korea hater nor apologist but I guess if knowledge doesn't require comparison, then North Korea can say it's a prosperous and powerful country and demand that it be accepted as truth. |
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jfromtheway
Joined: 20 Nov 2010
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