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CanadaSteve
Joined: 08 Feb 2012
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 Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:57 am Post subject: |
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This may be a bit off topic?
The FB group for "Action against MBC" put up an event here:
https://www.facebook.com/events/451261604903364/
which is supposed to show international couples in a positive light to contradict the media bias of videos like the OP's and the MBC/Pan Entertainment piece |
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postfundie
Joined: 28 May 2004
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:16 am Post subject: |
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Steelrails wrote:
"Korean journalism is sensationalistic and practices irresponsible journalism."
"Well, yeah. It's The Media." " I think saying the media is wrong is like saying saying strip clubs demean women and are superficial or that casino games are rigged to favor the house or that sports teams/pro athletes are all about the money and not about winning. What do you expect? ' |
The media is the media, yeah we know, but can your brain detect any difference between the news agencies in Saudi Arabia, Korea, and the UK???? I am not from the UK but I would bet money that the BBC would not run a story sympathetic to Sharia law ON the issue of whether or not it is ok to execute homosexuals, not allow them to marry but to actually execute them. The BBC and Korea, in this case, practice responsible journalism, Saudi Arabia on the other hand needs to grow up. That's what I expect the media here to do...I expect them to grow up on the issue of interracial relationships. |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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There was a newstory initially on this but confined to the interest and liesure section of the Korea times. But, as of Monday, no front page reporting on this issue. What about the Korean media discussing our outrage? I wanted to believe Koreans were with us initially. Some were, but was it mostly the Koreans who were already with or friends with foriegners. Considering there are 20 to 30 thousand English teachers here and millions of Koreans, why is the facebook group still only around the 7 to 8 thousand mark? The number, with even a minority of the Korean population with us should be at least numbered around a million. So, this issue, while provoking our outrage, begs the question: what will really come out of this. These types of stories were running up until a couple of years ago and the general population seemed much more hostile. Then, during the past couple of years, Koreans seemed friendlier. Think the government might have been running ads telling people to say hi to foriegners and not butt in line. Went around my town this weekend, noticed less Koreans saying hi. Too soon to tell if that's a co-incidence or not.
Will the (o(k blocking continue with an excellerated pace? (Itaewon doesn't count, by the way. This refers to not just other areas of Seoul, but throughout the rest of the country.) |
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rchristo10
Joined: 14 Jul 2009
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| comm wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
"Korean journalism is sensationalistic and practices irresponsible journalism."
"Well, yeah. It's The Media." |
I get the impression that you think this is "ok" and that the effected groups shouldn't care that their image is damaged... because other groups images are sometimes damaged too.
I could go around punching an equal number of black people and white people in the face. No, I'm not biased in who I'm punching, but that doesn't make assault OK. All effected groups would be pretty justified in being pissed off. |
Well that would make you violent. But if people accused you of being racist, they would be wrong, and you certainly don't deserve that. |
I have to do it. I'll use Steelrails's way of thinking (but even Jellyfish make mistakes). Your usual reply would be:
No, that would make him racist! He pointed out that he's specifically targeting black and white people! He's not targeting Asians!
***
I can't get enough of your idiotic way of thinking, Steelnod. But admit it, had you not been drinking your tea and sleepy, your usual way of "thinking" would've taken over and led to such a reductionist interpretation of his point, right? You're usually excellent at missing the forest for the trees. Jellyfish slip up, I'm sure.
Puhaha...I've learned to speak Jellyfish! Lol! |
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rchristo10
Joined: 14 Jul 2009
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
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| t was people drunk and violent. It was New Year's Eve. In fact, the first fight was Koreans versus non-Koreans, the second just non-Koreans. But what difference does it make? Now explain to me where the need for the distinction even comes in? Foreigner, foreigner, foreigner? Korean, Korean, Korean? Wake up. |
So then the news story wasn't about foreigners getting drunk, it was about people getting drunk then?
Then how is this story biased against foreigners? Either the story is about foreigners getting drunk and is an attempt to smear them or its a story about people getting drunk and it isn't. Make up your mind.
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| No. Being that it was New Years' Eve. |
So what, fight's on New Year's Eve don't count? If 10 people are killed because people shoot guns into the air on New Year's Eve, those statistics shouldn't count towards accidental gun deaths because it's on New Year's Eve?
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| it would be impossible to theorize any notion of correlation without 1. a sensible sample size; 2. a control group; 3. an experimental model for analyzing the variable. |
Which is exactly what I'm asking for to support your claim that the Korean media is biased.
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| Yes, because one video can constitute a violation of a person's/ people's respect and also be biased. |
Right, but if the Korean media also does negative stories about Koreans as a whole, how can we say they are biased against foreigners? Wouldn't that suggest that the Korean media is biased towards negative coverage, regardless of nationality?
And if the Korea media IS biased against foreigners, then how do you explain positive news stories or news stories highlighting the plight of foreigners in Korea?
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| A catch-22 is usually a predicament or paradoxical predicament. |
Yes you are in the paradoxical predicament of either-
1)Agreeing that two incidents is sufficient to brand a group, which means that if you say "Here are two news reports that are negative towards foreigners, therefore the Korean media is biased against foreigners" then you must also accept that MBC's report of "here are two foreigners fighting, therefore foreigners are violent" is valid.
OR
Agreeing that two incidents of foreigners fighting is NOT sufficient evidence to draw the conclusion that foreigners are violent drunks AND that two media reports are not sufficient evidence to show a negative bias towards foreigners in the Korean media.
The Catch-22 is that if you choose the first part, then you are validating MBCs report. If you choose the second, then one must conclude that your own accusation of the Korean media is nonsense, because your evidence is just as slipshod as theirs.
But stating that one is valid but the other is not, is pretty hypocritical and reflective of bias. The very bias you claim to be against!
I on the other hand am consistent. I think both MBC's claim AND yours is without sufficient evidence.
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| This gets fuzzy for me. What is the 'something' exactly, what constitutes 'need', and surely the crime and its context deserves more than an absolutist response. |
We haven't even broached this topic. I mean "need" and "something must be done" in response to perceived failures of morality has more than once led humanity into situations worse off than they were before.
Combating sensationalistic journalism from for-profit media corporations is a bit like combating drugs. You're talking about human nature. Human beings love lurid stories featuring violence and sex, just like they like to get buzzed. This goes back to my point of-
"Korean journalism is sensationalistic and practices irresponsible journalism."
"Well, yeah. It's The Media."
Let's think about thing in the long-term. If the Korean media NEVER did any negative stories about foreigners but still did negative stories about Koreans, then Koreans would perceive their media as biased and bought-out by Washington D.C. And if the Koreans never did any negative stories period, people would just change the channel to a different station or tune out the media as being a bunch of propaganda.
In the end it might be best to accept that yes, there will be negative stories about us. But as long as the Korean media also does positive stories about us, and as long as they also do negative stories about Koreans, it's essentially unbiased and fair. The positive stories about foreigners will have an effect, and the negative stories about Koreans will provide balance and perspective.
Now given that it seems at present there are positive stories about foreigners and that there are negative stories about Koreans, it would seem to me that the status quo is fairly close to the ideal. Perhaps some tweaking is in order, but to bombastically claim that the Korean media is biased against foreigners and a sweeping overhaul is called for strikes me as lacking in foresight and perspective.
Yes, sometimes people will say negative things about you. That's life. It's not fair, but that's the way it is.
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| . I guess we can safely say there are elements in the Korean media that are racist. The rest can be conjecture flavored by personal experience. |
An entirely reasonable conclusion.
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| more so when you are less polemic. Trust me, I understand the difficulty in changing Steelrails' mind. Still, the ad hominum doesn't endear. |
Yeah, for a guy making a big deal about education, proper debate logic and terminology, and ethics, the name-calling and whatnot is pretty ridiculous. Not that I care. 'Jellyfish' may be weird, but it has the virtue of originality and 'Master Guessturer" has a sort of endearing quality to it. Ad hominem away, just keep it entertaining and insulting, not demeaning. |
Did you notice that you've never corrected your amazing assessment on how to substantiate your theories regarding the statistical analysis of proving bias?
I notice how your selective vision has taken over.
Much of your erudite (kekeke) comments to my replies either amount to a clear lack of understanding (on your part) or a major cop-out regarding any of the issues.
You bob, duck, and weave from any core arguments that I've given you or addressing any points when your "logic" is clearly flawed. What's up with that exactly?
It's irresponsible journalism, you've admitted it. Now the question is what should we do about it, because it's certainly not fair or just. Or are you promoting that we just let it pass? Say one or the other, you seem to play hopscotch between them both.
You criticize a great deal and offer very little in return. Or haven't you noticed? You're quite often wrong. You have no qualms with ignoring that fact. You're extremely opinionated, but offer nothing constructive in terms of what to do about the situation--all the while asserting that "Yes, I see it's wrong." Try being blunt for once, with us and with yourself. Repeat after me:
"Yes, I promote apathy with things that I consider unworthy of attention and ignorance in terms of things I may not know."
Otherwise, offer something that would perhaps put an end what you've already interpreted as irresponsible journalism. Or just be straight up and say "punk up, bend over, and take it like a man"; you're not being clear.
Constructive replies are better than simple criticisms and idle dogmatic responses using illogical sophistry and pseudo-academic jargon.
We all agree that irresponsible journalism is bad. We all agree that Korea has several cases of irresponsible journalism that have specifically targeted non-Koreans. We all agree that it should be stopped in mainstream media. So, well, what's your take on how to make that happen without jumping headfirst into unnecessary debate around the issue as oppose to about the issue.
BTW: You still don't understand the definition of a Catch-22. You're interpretation is as much of what you've written: WRONG. I've officially realized that learning is perhaps a done deal with you. 
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| Yeah, for a guy making a big deal about education, proper debate logic and terminology, and ethics, the name-calling and whatnot is pretty ridiculous. Not that I care. |
Man, I forgot the psychological term for that. Yeah, keep convincing yourself. Sure you don't care, Jellyfish. LOL |
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rchristo10
Joined: 14 Jul 2009
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Old fat expat wrote: |
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3. Do you need to do something about it?"
4. Yes. |
This gets fuzzy for me. What is the 'something' exactly, what constitutes 'need', and surely the crime and its context deserves more than an absolutist response. Is discussion enough?
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+1; I think discussion is the start of anything, but it's also fuzzy for me. That's one of the reasons why I posted it. People seem to ignore it. Discussion is the start. From what I know foreigners are legally prohibited from staging or participating in protests here. Discussion seems to be the only alternative at this point. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Weigookin74 wrote: |
| There was a newstory initially on this but confined to the interest and liesure section of the Korea times. But, as of Monday, no front page reporting on this issue. What about the Korean media discussing our outrage? I wanted to believe Koreans were with us initially. Some were, but was it mostly the Koreans who were already with or friends with foriegners. Considering there are 20 to 30 thousand English teachers here and millions of Koreans, why is the facebook group still only around the 7 to 8 thousand mark? The number, with even a minority of the Korean population with us should be at least numbered around a million. |
Again, the narcissim factor. This story wasn't viewed or discussed by probably 98% of the Korean populace.
Add to that fact that Koreans have other, more pressing issues for them to protest about, say their union striking or pension plans, and yeah, no one cares.
Sorry, but expecting foreigner issues to be fornt and center of Korean people's minds is just narcissitic and idiotic.
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Try being blunt for once, with us and with yourself. Repeat after me:
"Yes, I promote apathy with things that I consider unworthy of attention and ignorance in terms of things I may not know." |
Now, I may be an unlearned jellyfish, but I'm pretty sure what you wrote there was anything but blunt. |
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rchristo10
Joined: 14 Jul 2009
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| Weigookin74 wrote: |
| There was a newstory initially on this but confined to the interest and liesure section of the Korea times. But, as of Monday, no front page reporting on this issue. What about the Korean media discussing our outrage? I wanted to believe Koreans were with us initially. Some were, but was it mostly the Koreans who were already with or friends with foriegners. Considering there are 20 to 30 thousand English teachers here and millions of Koreans, why is the facebook group still only around the 7 to 8 thousand mark? The number, with even a minority of the Korean population with us should be at least numbered around a million. |
Again, the narcissim factor. This story wasn't viewed or discussed by probably 98% of the Korean populace.
Add to that fact that Koreans have other, more pressing issues for them to protest about, say their union striking or pension plans, and yeah, no one cares.
Sorry, but expecting foreigner issues to be fornt and center of Korean people's minds is just narcissitic and idiotic.
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Try being blunt for once, with us and with yourself. Repeat after me:
"Yes, I promote apathy with things that I consider unworthy of attention and ignorance in terms of things I may not know." |
Now, I may be an unlearned jellyfish, but I'm pretty sure what you wrote there was anything but blunt. |
For you...even that would be blunt. Personally, I usually use explicits to make my point blunt.  |
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rchristo10
Joined: 14 Jul 2009
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Savant
Joined: 25 May 2007
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| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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Images could have came from that Anti-Blackout Korea website. Is that still around? |
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fermentation
Joined: 22 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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Funny thing is I saw a Korean guy in a business suit sprawled on the sidewalk this morning going to work and nobody batted an eye.
If you can read Korean, you guys should check out the comments. Looks like Chosunilbo isn't getting the support it hoped for. There's a few taking a dump on the newspaper for completely different reasons. Some talking about how we have to change Korean drinking culture.
This funniest one :
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| They're Korean now! lololol |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 10:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Weigookin74 wrote: |
| There was a newstory initially on this but confined to the interest and liesure section of the Korea times. But, as of Monday, no front page reporting on this issue. What about the Korean media discussing our outrage? I wanted to believe Koreans were with us initially. Some were, but was it mostly the Koreans who were already with or friends with foriegners. Considering there are 20 to 30 thousand English teachers here and millions of Koreans, why is the facebook group still only around the 7 to 8 thousand mark? The number, with even a minority of the Korean population with us should be at least numbered around a million. .) |
Maybe it would have been if foreigner issues were important to Koreans at all. Viewership has been falling rapidly at MBC since the strike started several months ago. The vast majority of Koreans probably never saw it or even heard about it. Sure it's made the rounds on the English speaking forums and blogs but I'd say the viewership of Koreans that read those regularly can be measured in the dozens.
It hasn't simply registered on the national "radar" so as to speak.
There are a lot more issues that directly affect them. You ask about why don't more Koreans support us.
Do you go around and find out what the issues are that affect the Korean community in YOUR country?
Same here. |
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rchristo10
Joined: 14 Jul 2009
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| Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 2:29 am Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Weigookin74 wrote: |
| There was a newstory initially on this but confined to the interest and liesure section of the Korea times. But, as of Monday, no front page reporting on this issue. What about the Korean media discussing our outrage? I wanted to believe Koreans were with us initially. Some were, but was it mostly the Koreans who were already with or friends with foriegners. Considering there are 20 to 30 thousand English teachers here and millions of Koreans, why is the facebook group still only around the 7 to 8 thousand mark? The number, with even a minority of the Korean population with us should be at least numbered around a million. .) |
Maybe it would have been if foreigner issues were important to Koreans at all. Viewership has been falling rapidly at MBC since the strike started several months ago. The vast majority of Koreans probably never saw it or even heard about it. Sure it's made the rounds on the English speaking forums and blogs but I'd say the viewership of Koreans that read those regularly can be measured in the dozens.
It hasn't simply registered on the national "radar" so as to speak.
There are a lot more issues that directly affect them. You ask about why don't more Koreans support us.
Do you go around and find out what the issues are that affect the Korean community in YOUR country?
Same here. |
Was this simply a slip up or are you kidding?
I wonder why Koreans would go about putting this and similar articles in the "Top News" section of their papers. Why, for example, one of my Korean friends would send me photographed copies of the hard copy pieces (i.e. written on the paper version of the newspaper) in a Kakao message asking if I knew one of the blurs, why CNN/ WSJ/ Le Monde would pick up on the gross injustice media is committing here, why Harvard's Michael Sandel would mention the MBC piece directly in his speech on *justice*, and why Korean professors in law, sociology, economics, and business classes at the top universities in Korea would start putting foreign issues & multiculturalism on their agendas if..."foreigner issues were [not] important issues to Koreans at all."
Believe it or not, Koreans are pretty privy to what is happening in our community despite the inability or desire to participate in our debates and other shenanigans.
Most Koreans (at least most of the one's I've been talking to--and I do talk with many who outwardly show little interest in foreign issues) see that the media is negatively targeting non-Koreans these days.
Comparing Korean issues in the US to foreign ones in Korea is beyond the scope of rationality. For one, people here are much more interested in social issues and pretty much stay aware of what's going on a daily basis via Internet and even the written newspaper. The notion of even comparing Korea's national radar to any country going poot-poot on the Internetted super highway and powered on less-than-optimal diesel regular (i.e. with a comparatively lower level of information diffusion) like that of the US's is a joke.
Koreans may act coy, but most people in the densely populated cities are well aware of what's going on in their own backyards. |
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rchristo10
Joined: 14 Jul 2009
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| Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:54 am Post subject: |
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| Weigookin74 wrote: |
| There was a newstory initially on this but confined to the interest and liesure section of the Korea times. But, as of Monday, no front page reporting on this issue. What about the Korean media discussing our outrage? I wanted to believe Koreans were with us initially. Some were, but was it mostly the Koreans who were already with or friends with foriegners. Considering there are 20 to 30 thousand English teachers here and millions of Koreans, why is the facebook group still only around the 7 to 8 thousand mark? The number, with even a minority of the Korean population with us should be at least numbered around a million. |
What? Few Koreans use (as oppose to simply sign up for) Facebook to begin with and they've never needed to use such a medium to organize their outrage--though it has proven itself salient in Egypt and during the so-called Jasmine "Revolution"; Facebook activity could tell us little in regard to how society feels about any issue in Korea...IMO. |
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rchristo10
Joined: 14 Jul 2009
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| Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 4:33 am Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
Obviously some Koreans are well aware, but a lot of people have sex, food, and sports on the brain more than current issues.
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| What? Few Koreans use (as oppose to simply sign up for) Facebook to begin with and they've never needed to use such a medium to organize their outrage--though it has proven itself salient in Egypt and during the so-called Jasmine "Revolution"; Facebook activity could tell us little in regard to how society feels about any issue in Korea...IMO. |
Hey, something we agree on! |
And of course sex, food, and sports are not current issues. |
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