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The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
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 Posted: Sun May 27, 2012 8:47 pm Post subject: |
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| luckylady wrote: |
no, I am not being politically correct in what I stated - I hate, abhor, sexual predators as much as you do. however, in this day and age we treat everything from baldness to infertility to cancer with the most modern techniques possible - sexual predation is no exception. it's a little understood malady that causes a great deal of harm to society - are you saying something so terrible should just be dealt with by locking people away and no attempt at treatment ever?
further, there are people who actually do not offend but seek treatment because they do understand how wrong these feelings are - what then? are you going to imprison someone who only thinks about molesting children but hasn't yet and has actually sought help? wouldn't a just society try to treat such an individual?
labeling something with the "yuck" factor because it's too unpleasant to deal with does no one any good - especially victims past and potentially future.
chemical castration is also part of an attempt to understand the hormonal unbalance that contributes to both a man's desire as well as actions towards molestation. because women bear children, much more is known about their hormonal cycles than men. it could very well be that by funding the proper research in men's reproductive cycles, the day could come when all boys/young men could be screened by a simple blood test that measured their hormones for levels which could predict problems in the future and therefore be corrected by oral doses of the proper hormone, much as some women take birth control pills to balance a heavy flow, whether or not they are sexually active.
personally, I have absolutely not an ounce (or gram) of compassion for a convicted child molester and could care less about their own well-being - I do, however, support and commend those who do work with them in attempts to find the solution to this horrific and devasting activity. |
Are you now suggesting that someone who is seeking help for an illness is the same as someone who repeatedly rapes children?
If you are...we disagree.
If not...attaching my opinion to both in this manner is disingenuous at best. |
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luckylady
Joined: 30 Jan 2012
Location: u.s. of occupied territories
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| Posted: Sun May 27, 2012 11:32 pm Post subject: |
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| The Cosmic Hum wrote: |
| luckylady wrote: |
no, I am not being politically correct in what I stated - I hate, abhor, sexual predators as much as you do. however, in this day and age we treat everything from baldness to infertility to cancer with the most modern techniques possible - sexual predation is no exception. it's a little understood malady that causes a great deal of harm to society - are you saying something so terrible should just be dealt with by locking people away and no attempt at treatment ever?
further, there are people who actually do not offend but seek treatment because they do understand how wrong these feelings are - what then? are you going to imprison someone who only thinks about molesting children but hasn't yet and has actually sought help? wouldn't a just society try to treat such an individual?
labeling something with the "yuck" factor because it's too unpleasant to deal with does no one any good - especially victims past and potentially future.
chemical castration is also part of an attempt to understand the hormonal unbalance that contributes to both a man's desire as well as actions towards molestation. because women bear children, much more is known about their hormonal cycles than men. it could very well be that by funding the proper research in men's reproductive cycles, the day could come when all boys/young men could be screened by a simple blood test that measured their hormones for levels which could predict problems in the future and therefore be corrected by oral doses of the proper hormone, much as some women take birth control pills to balance a heavy flow, whether or not they are sexually active.
personally, I have absolutely not an ounce (or gram) of compassion for a convicted child molester and could care less about their own well-being - I do, however, support and commend those who do work with them in attempts to find the solution to this horrific and devasting activity. |
Are you now suggesting that someone who is seeking help for an illness is the same as someone who repeatedly rapes children?
If you are...we disagree.
If not...attaching my opinion to both in this manner is disingenuous at best. |
omg - how on earth did you ever manage to twist my words into such an absurd conclusion??? jees kryst already - try to read sober, it might help. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Mon May 28, 2012 5:37 am Post subject: |
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I think the important thing is deterrence. I think if caught in the act pedos were drawn and quartered that might have some sort of effect. Add in that if you were ever convicted that you would be summarily shot or burned at the stake and you might see a decrease in pedo crime.
Of course the flip side to that is you will probably kill 1 innocent person for every 4 criminals. And for each innocent killed, 10 people will be outraged. Not exactly a winning proposition.
On the other hand if some diddler out there knows that he can diddle away for 10 years of his life and once he gets get caught, gets 5 years of therapy and isolation in the sex offender wing, then that's sort of a green light to that sort. |
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The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
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| Posted: Mon May 28, 2012 7:30 am Post subject: |
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| luckylady wrote: |
| omg - how on earth did you ever manage to twist my words into such an absurd conclusion??? jees kryst already - try to read sober, it might help. |
ahh...now insults...indeed, how very sad for you.
Here...I will make this clearer for you.
| Quote: |
| however, in this day and age we treat everything from baldness to infertility to cancer with the most modern techniques possible - sexual predation is no exception. |
Comparing treatment of internal illnesses to treatment of sexual deviants.
This is quite understandable...but it slides into your next point...which is where we find your twisted logic.
| Quote: |
| it's a little understood malady that causes a great deal of harm to society - are you saying something so terrible should just be dealt with by locking people away and no attempt at treatment ever? |
I made no mention of this at all...only that serial rapists should be put in prison for life.
Are you saying they are the same thing?
Otherwise, what is the connection to my point?
And again,
| Quote: |
| there are people who actually do not offend but seek treatment because they do understand how wrong these feelings are - what then? are you going to imprison someone who only thinks about molesting children but hasn't yet and has actually sought help? |
Are you saying that these people are the same as serial rapists?
If not...why are you making that connection to my point?
Can you see the difference?
And spare me your insults...it does little to deflect your shortcomings in this conversation. |
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luckylady
Joined: 30 Jan 2012
Location: u.s. of occupied territories
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| Posted: Mon May 28, 2012 2:25 pm Post subject: |
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| The Cosmic Hum wrote: |
| luckylady wrote: |
| omg - how on earth did you ever manage to twist my words into such an absurd conclusion??? jees kryst already - try to read sober, it might help. |
ahh...now insults...indeed, how very sad for you.
Here...I will make this clearer for you.
| Quote: |
| however, in this day and age we treat everything from baldness to infertility to cancer with the most modern techniques possible - sexual predation is no exception. |
Comparing treatment of internal illnesses to treatment of sexual deviants.
This is quite understandable...but it slides into your next point...which is where we find your twisted logic.
| Quote: |
| it's a little understood malady that causes a great deal of harm to society - are you saying something so terrible should just be dealt with by locking people away and no attempt at treatment ever? |
I made no mention of this at all...only that serial rapists should be put in prison for life.
Are you saying they are the same thing?
Otherwise, what is the connection to my point?
And again,
| Quote: |
| there are people who actually do not offend but seek treatment because they do understand how wrong these feelings are - what then? are you going to imprison someone who only thinks about molesting children but hasn't yet and has actually sought help? |
Are you saying that these people are the same as serial rapists?
If not...why are you making that connection to my point?
Can you see the difference?
And spare me your insults...it does little to deflect your shortcomings in this conversation. |
it's not an insult to suggest someone try to read in a sober and serious manner rather than in one that distorts and twists someone's words into something other than what was originally stated.
obviously you have an alternative agenda that does not include mature and serious discussion regarding how society might deal with pedophiles and pedophilia in general.
fortunately for everyone - including you - there are those working towards treatment of pedophilia in hopes that it will be prevented and possibly even cured.
leprosy was also once a dreaded and hideous disease; lepers were killed, tortured and banned from their communities.
I, for one, am thankful that there were forward-looking individuals that sought to find an answer to this scourge; the same sort who resisted the naysayers like yourself (and others) who only seek to condemn without questioning why. |
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geldedgoat
Joined: 05 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Mon May 28, 2012 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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| luckylady wrote: |
| it's not an insult to suggest someone try to read in a sober and serious manner rather than in one that distorts and twists someone's words into something other than what was originally stated. |
You very clearly tried to draw a correlation between physical disease and mental maladies that result in criminal acts. You even did it again in this latest post:
| Quote: |
leprosy was also once a dreaded and hideous disease; lepers were killed, tortured and banned from their communities.
I, for one, am thankful that there were forward-looking individuals that sought to find an answer to this scourge; the same sort who resisted the naysayers like yourself (and others) who only seek to condemn without questioning why. |
Either you don't understand the comparisons your posts create, or you do but are just too disingenuous to admit it. Either way it's ridiculous.
If pedophilia and other psychological defects are biological in nature and can be treated accordingly, that's awesome. However, that still says nothing to pedophilia when it results in a criminal act and the punishment that should accompany it. |
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fermentation
Joined: 22 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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If it's reversible and it's effective, then I'm all for it.
| Quote: |
| How do you know for sure what's in store for your personality development and make up? Not that you would be a pedophile in the future. |
Well, I'm alone with children, I don't molest them. |
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luckylady
Joined: 30 Jan 2012
Location: u.s. of occupied territories
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2012 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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| geldedgoat wrote: |
| luckylady wrote: |
| it's not an insult to suggest someone try to read in a sober and serious manner rather than in one that distorts and twists someone's words into something other than what was originally stated. |
You very clearly tried to draw a correlation between physical disease and mental maladies that result in criminal acts. You even did it again in this latest post:
| Quote: |
leprosy was also once a dreaded and hideous disease; lepers were killed, tortured and banned from their communities.
I, for one, am thankful that there were forward-looking individuals that sought to find an answer to this scourge; the same sort who resisted the naysayers like yourself (and others) who only seek to condemn without questioning why. |
Either you don't understand the comparisons your posts create, or you do but are just too disingenuous to admit it. Either way it's ridiculous.
If pedophilia and other psychological defects are biological in nature and can be treated accordingly, that's awesome. However, that still says nothing to pedophilia when it results in a criminal act and the punishment that should accompany it. |
excuse me I'm not required to respond specifically to your request...
at any rate, you just aren't getting the point which is punishment solves nothing, it's an endless cycle of wasted resources and humanity. seeking a solution to even something as distasteful as pedophilia can go a long way in solving one of the worst acts that society can commit upon itself.
and yes, sucessful treatment with hormones suggest that some cases, not all, of pedophilia are biological in nature.
moreover, it doesn't matter that in today's world we don't see leprosy as a crime - the way lepers were treated in the past (by most people) they might as well have been criminals to have been isolated and outcast the way they were. |
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The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 9:38 am Post subject: |
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| luckylady wrote: |
| at any rate, you just aren't getting the point which is punishment solves nothing, |
Well...if this is your point...then I would have to agree with you that we aren't getting your point...in fact, I personally disagree with it.
Punishment solves a great many things...though it may not be a cure to pedophilia.
We are not arguing that cures to pedophilia should not be sought out, as...yes they would be a great advantage to society.
However, seeking cures for pedophilia and punishment for convicted serial rapists are two different topics...which, unfortunately, is a point that you are not getting.
Though, to further this conversation, we could seek for cures by using convicted serial rapists as test subjects...but my point would still be that they would never get out of prison.
IF tests on these individuals could find cures, thereby preventing others from committing such acts...this would be of great benefit to society. |
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rollo
Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China
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| Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:10 am Post subject: |
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There are studies particuraly in Minnesota that when incararation for offenses against children is guaranteed that the number of offenses dropped. Not all pedos are under some compulsion so powerful that they can not control themselves. that is a myth Some severely mentally ill are incapable of controlling themselves but most act because it is an easy target.
Sure a cure would be optimum. Allowing people to assault children without consequences , now that would be real sick, |
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