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Pablo
Joined: 15 Dec 2011
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 Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 6:50 pm Post subject: 5 Months In / Pension Underpaid / Please Advise |
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Hi
I am a few days away from five months into my hagwon contract. I found out my salary was underreported to the pension office, so I have not received the correct amount of deposits into my pension account. I brought all the figures to my employer seven days ago, laid out very clearly in detail. Since then I have spoken with the employer three times. I don't care how payment happens. I just want to be paid the pension money that is due me. Also, I have had the correct pension share deducted from my own payslip for the past two months, but deposits have only been forwarded to the pension account at the old, incorrect lower rate.
The employer has not given me any timeframe whatsoever of when the missing money will be paid or even if it will be paid. All I have is "Let me think about it." (earlier) and "I'm working on it." (Today. Those exact words. Nothing more).
Does anyone have any insight, advice, or warnings? My employer has treated me well in all other matters, but this is really starting to stink.
Thank you for any thoughts. |
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YTMND
Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!
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| Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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So, when he said to think about it, did you start camping out in his office? Bring some food, a book, and just sit there.
The thing is you can't go there and demand something and then walk out. That is the whole point of telling you "later". They want to wait you out, but they don't want you around. Leaving makes it look like an outburst, and you get castigated as a crazy person.
You need to go in and not leave until you get something. I generally settle for less. What is now my last school didn't want to pay for June (my last month). So, I waited in the office until they agreed to pay my airfare. Originally, they didn't want to pay that either. However, I didn't leave until they agreed to pay it.
NO thinking it over, no later crap. Decide now or I don't leave. That simple. They don't want to cause a problem with parents around or get police involved since it is them doing stuff off the books.
Play the waiting game, but not in innings. Don't go back unless you are ready to wait them out. Go to the bathroom before entering so you don't have to excuse yourself. |
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Pablo
Joined: 15 Dec 2011
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| Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Thanks for the thoughts, YTMND. But in that scenerio, what happens next? I try to continue with the contract? Another question, what's to stop someone from agreeing to pay it, but then still not paying it after you're out of the school? Do you mean you demanded and received cash on the spot before going out the door? |
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Wildbore
Joined: 17 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Pablo wrote: |
| Thanks for the thoughts, YTMND. But in that scenerio, what happens next? I try to continue with the contract? Another question, what's to stop someone from agreeing to pay it, but then still not paying it after you're out of the school? Do you mean you demanded and received cash on the spot before going out the door? |
They are breaking the law. They are likely underpaying your health insurance premium and income taxes as well.
They are commiting fraud, report them to the tax authorities. |
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luckylady
Joined: 30 Jan 2012
Location: u.s. of occupied territories
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| Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 10:27 pm Post subject: |
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the tax office could care less, trust me on that one.
as for health insurance, it doesn't matter to them either, you will just pay less and still receive the same health insurance. my first hakwon director even told me she was underreporting my salary for that reason - I shrugged and said ok, it was never a problem
as for pension, I think the pension office will go after them for you - probably they will be lenient until your contract is finished, and then demand payment when you get to the point that you ask for your payout.
it's your decision but if everything else is fine, then hang in there a while and see how it goes. talk to the pension office, I assume you brought them a copy of your contract? if not, do so, let them make the fuss, you have better things to do. |
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YTMND
Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:08 am Post subject: |
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| But in that scenerio, what happens next? |
The idea is to make them feel completely awful about the situation where they do not want to experience it again. So, what happens next is that they put the agreed amount of money into your bank account or wherever it needs to go and at the agreed time.
None of this "later" talk. I am in talks with my new school now over issues too. I refused to handover my passport until we got apartment issues resolved. They called me immature for doing this. I am calling them arrogant thinking I would stay quiet and not say anything. Sounds like a wonderful start, but I am not going to back down from what I think are common necessities.
| Quote: |
| I try to continue with the contract? |
Of course.
PD = Pay Date
When PD arrives, you check your bank account. Give it till the next day. Then, go ballistic on them like you did the first time. Apparently, they didn't get the hint the first time. This time PD = less time or immediate payment. I once went to a bank closest to the school and called them up. I told them when my pay was in my bank account I would go to school to teach. After 14 days of them saying later, it magically showed up in my bank account within 45 minutes after calling them. I then went back to work. Either they pay or you stop working. Simple as that.
| Quote: |
| what's to stop someone from agreeing to pay it, but then still not paying it after you're out of the school? |
You. This doesn't have to take weeks, this is a simple thing. 3 days. That's all that is needed. At the 3 day mark you question them about it, then following the formula above PD = less time. 1.5 days. Then again. Make the time frame shorter and shorter. Sometimes being the biggest pest can get you what you deserve.
A guy I rented from refused to give me my security deposit once. My uncle was a lawyer in collections at the time and sued him. He got the security deposit plus attorney fees  It was almost 2 security deposits because this guy was too stubborn and held onto the money.
I guess I have a good psycho appearance about myself. I play both sides, innocent and victimized, but also someone who is ready go off and be crazy in a way an employer would not want. So, when I get this "I'll do it later" talk from them I know what to do and they never do it to me again.
Last year, the manager at my old school went on vacation and didn't pay me. I got a co-teacher to get the school owner's phone number and said we needed to talk with the school owner if the manager wasn't going to pay me before my vacation time started (1 day after the manager left). Well, after about 30 minutes of my co-teacher explaining to my manager why I wanted to talk with the owner, I was able to pick up my pay that day as scheduled.
Again, none of this later garbage. Either they have the money or they don't.
| Quote: |
| Do you mean you demanded and received cash on the spot before going out the door? |
I must have a very unpleasurable way of negotiating things with people where they do not want to experience me ripping them apart verbally and making them feel like cheating bastards. Either they pay up and we move on, or they pay up and tell me to move out.
I have had a long history of this crap. I had my hair in a ponytail when I was 13, and I was bagging groceries. One manager was on vacation and came back 2 weeks after I started working and told me to cut my hair. I refused and left. Cut my hair because I am bagging groceries but every female at the store is allowed to wear their hair poofed out? This was back in the 80's where that perm style was popular.
When I was in college, I wasn't paid for the last week of September. I was told to resubmit my application and documents. I waited and waited. Still no pay for October. Then November came and I asked again. They said my papers weren't processed yet (this is just a job in America, putting books back on shelves in the library). I then went to the manager, not the one who hired me, and said I wouldn't work anymore if I wasn't paid before Thanksgiving. The manager said ok, but when I didn't show up after Thanksgiving, the person who hired me told me to pick up my money and not return for work.
How come they could pay me after I refused to work, but before then it was ok to pull this "later" crap? This isn't just a Korean thing. I think is more of a control thing. The person directly over you wants more control over you and you need to psychologically show them that they can get more out of you with sugar than piss and vinegar.
I try to make the good parts "extra" good so the school continues that, like teaching a private class for them for free every so often, but then when they try to stick me for a water bill from 2010 when I moved in in 2011 I really bite them back for that.
You got to find the cojones to put them in their place where if they pay as agreed to the situation will get better. Too many teachers gamble and try to itemize everything they deserve, like the hagwon owner. That's not going to help if you are doing that.
Another thing that might help is demand a few things you don't need. That way it looks like you are compromising in order to get what you really want  |
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Pablo
Joined: 15 Dec 2011
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:53 am Post subject: |
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| Thank you Wildbore, Ladyluck, and again YTMND. YTMND, I will PM you. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:40 am Post subject: Re: 5 Months In / Pension Underpaid / Please Advise |
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| Pablo wrote: |
Hi
I am a few days away from five months into my hagwon contract. I found out my salary was underreported to the pension office, so I have not received the correct amount of deposits into my pension account. I brought all the figures to my employer seven days ago, laid out very clearly in detail. Since then I have spoken with the employer three times. I don't care how payment happens. I just want to be paid the pension money that is due me. Also, I have had the correct pension share deducted from my own payslip for the past two months, but deposits have only been forwarded to the pension account at the old, incorrect lower rate.
The employer has not given me any timeframe whatsoever of when the missing money will be paid or even if it will be paid. All I have is "Let me think about it." (earlier) and "I'm working on it." (Today. Those exact words. Nothing more).
Does anyone have any insight, advice, or warnings? My employer has treated me well in all other matters, but this is really starting to stink.
Thank you for any thoughts. |
You haven't told us how by how much you have been underreported. As someone else pointed out, the school has likely reported you at the same lower salary to the Pension and Health Insurance offices. Taxes only have to be paid to the tax office once or twice per year, so your income taxes could be underreported as well, or not filed yet.
To help you deal with this, you need to understand the process at the Pension office.
Your employer registers you for Pension. He reports your monthly salary to the Pension office. They determine the total monthly payment due based on your reported salary - this amount is about 9%, but it's based on brackets. The employer and employee each pay half. This is where your employer used a lower pay amount for you and got a lower monthly pension amount.
Once the amount is set, the Pension office bills your employer monthly. They have no interest in, don't want to hear about, and discourage any changes. The monthly payment is fixed. There is no adjustment for overtime, partial months or months with lower wages for some reason. The monthly amount is fixed. In fact, when a school gives raises to employees, it is very difficult to get the Pension office to accept a higher amount.
So now, you want your boss to pay the proper amount to the Pension office. But they do not want to change. They are looking for exact payments of the amount due. They will accept lower payments to your account if your boss falls behind in paying and send bills with interest penalties for unpaid balances until he catches up, but they do not want payments that exceed the billed amount.
In order to change the payment amount to your account, your boss would have to come up with some story as to why he needs to change your reported monthy salary. He can't just go in and say that he was trying to cheat the system and you caught him, so he needs to think of a plausible explanation. No wonder he's delaying. If the underreported amount is large the Pension office will see through his scheme, and he may have used this ploy often in the past and may want to use it again in the future.
He could tell them that you're working more now, so you're making more, but how can he catch up on the higher amounts that should have been paid in the past?
He could just make a deal to pay you on the side, but you could turn around and report him anyway. Then he could be forced to pay twice and would be caught and charged penalties for the same cheating he's already struggling with - except it would have gone on longer.
Your boss wants the problem to go away. You can't let it do that until you get your money.
How you proceed depends on the outcome you most desire. Do you want to continue with this job for a year or change jobs right away?
You might be able to work this out and keep your job if that's what you're trying to do. You will have to proceed a bit more slowly and diplomatically. This may not work and in the end you may be fired over this issue - even though your boss was cheating you - so you should get ready to look for a new job (new documents or whatever you need to do).
If you go ballistic and scream over this you will alomst certainly be fired in the end.
This is a tough spot. It's difficult to come out whole when you've been cheated. You will have to stand firm, negotiate carefully and make your best deal. |
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dkteachlife
Joined: 24 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:06 pm Post subject: topic Hijack for advice on Labor Board |
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| I know a teacher that worked outside her contract on an e-2 and it was taxed. If she goes to the labor board about her hawgon's failure to pay her final salary? Now this is salary is in contract. Her owner owes her a month of pay, despite being in contract. However is it worth her going to the labor board even after repeated requests for payment he has refused her. Will the labor board lok into her taxes with her second job. Is it worth it for her? Sorry for the Hijack |
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luckylady
Joined: 30 Jan 2012
Location: u.s. of occupied territories
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:22 pm Post subject: Re: topic Hijack for advice on Labor Board |
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| dkteachlife wrote: |
| I know a teacher that worked outside her contract on an e-2 and it was taxed. If she goes to the labor board about her hawgon's failure to pay her final salary? Now this is salary is in contract. Her owner owes her a month of pay, despite being in contract. However is it worth her going to the labor board even after repeated requests for payment he has refused her. Will the labor board lok into her taxes with her second job. Is it worth it for her? Sorry for the Hijack |
don't be sorry just start your own thread  |
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Troglodyte
Joined: 06 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 12:08 am Post subject: |
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To the OP.
Don't bother arguing with your boss about this matter. There's no point in it. You have no power to force him to do much. You'll only make a scene.
Instead, go to someone who has power. The pension office. They care very much when they get cheated and they have the power to go after your boss. You show them your contract that says how much you get paid. You show them the pay slips to see that YOU have made your contribution. The different between that and what they received is how much the employer contributed. They WILL go after their share of the pie. Have no doubt about that.
There is no rush to do this. You're best off NOT making a deal out of it at this point. Wait another month because after 6 months then your boss can't fire you on the spot. After you've hit the 6 month mark, then go to the pension office and report him. He'll probably be angry and might fire you. If so then you go to the labor board to report him for firing you without proper notice and for unjust cause. With luck you'll get some pay in lieu of notice given, and a D10 or an E2 transfer.
Are you getting national health insurance? If so, then don't worry about it. Just go in to work like normal. Smile. Be friendly with the boss. Don't rock the boat (yet).
If you annoy your boss NOW, then he can very easily fire you on the spot for some made up reason and you won't have much ground to fight him. Plan you strategy. Don't just go in there and make a scene in his office or intentionally annoy him. That's terrible advice. |
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