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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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JustinC
Joined: 10 Mar 2012
Location: We Are The World!
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 Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:20 am Post subject: |
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| YTMND wrote: |
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| Other than that, I'm pretty Western and a female, and short skirts and cleavage neither turn my head nor compel me to throw rocks. |
Wow, talk about assumptions. I must admit, I was assuming the original poster was male. A school is worried about a female? Generally, if you are female, they don't worry. I did however replace a Filipino woman in Korea because parents complained about her pronunciation, which I found to be perfectly fine. I talked to her on the phone once because she needed to pick up a desk she left in the apartment.
In this case, if you have a "neutral" accent, I would challenge them on this. Try to talk with the school. Get the head English teacher involved. If you can, correct any pronunciation mistakes. This is probably a pronunciation issue.
As for family questions, only tell them about history from the time they came to America. If a parent or grandparent grew up in another country it doesn't matter. |
I had the same assumptions. As the OP is female, young and educated I expect the additional questions are because of either an accent or the recruiter's assumptions. If the OP has a 'neutral' accent (what is that?) she would be good to be ready for a different position. If the recruiter is becoming cooler about her teaching in that area it could be for reasons other than her abilities. I.e. locals' attitudes. I'd rather be in a place that I was 'accepted' than one which openly had a negative attitude toward me; it makes life so much easier. |
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luckylady
Joined: 30 Jan 2012
Location: u.s. of occupied territories
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| Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 9:23 am Post subject: |
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| RLib wrote: |
On point, Troglodyte.
I'm more concerned that they're asking because they're having second thoughts about hiring me. And I'm not planning to lie about my heritage. Anyone who follows world events would be able to guess it from my name-- and even that's beside the point, I shouldn't have to lie. I told them I was Jordanian/Palestinian American, and was born & raised in the U.S. I'm kicking myself now, though, b/c I implied that I'm first generation American, which, if you're right Troglodyte, they'll take to mean I didn't speak English in the home. But, if they read any of my application materials or view the youtube video I had to create, they should (hopefully) notice that I'm pretty fucking fluent.
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there are plenty of middle-easterners in Korea; in fact, at one time I met a fellow who was living there as a Palestinian refugee. Both Japan and Korea accept Palestinians as refugees, in fact. there are also a number of Pakistanis as well, as evidenced by the restaurants and yes, the mosque in Itaewon.
if you've ever attended a soccer match between Korea and Iran, you'll see what I mean.
OP, I think you have a great recruiter so if for some reason, this falls through, I'm sure they'll find you something else.
in the meanwhile, once you do arrive (and I'm sure you will, don't worry!) learn to guide the conversation away from politics and on to such subjects as, well, soccer  and of course ESL.
good luck! |
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Zulethe
Joined: 04 Jul 2008
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| Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 9:41 am Post subject: |
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Gosh people are simpletons.
Since all of you thought she was a he, you all jumped into the religious/racism stuff etc...
Not that it's a she...you don't attribute it to that but something else.
At least with your speculations, could you at least be consistent please |
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Troglodyte
Joined: 06 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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| YTMND wrote: |
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| Other than that, I'm pretty Western and a female, and short skirts and cleavage neither turn my head nor compel me to throw rocks. |
Wow, talk about assumptions. I must admit, I was assuming the original poster was male. A school is worried about a female? Generally, if you are female, they don't worry. I did however replace a Filipino woman in Korea because parents complained about her pronunciation, which I found to be perfectly fine. I talked to her on the phone once because she needed to pick up a desk she left in the apartment.
In this case, if you have a "neutral" accent, I would challenge them on this. Try to talk with the school. Get the head English teacher involved. If you can, correct any pronunciation mistakes. This is probably a pronunciation issue.
As for family questions, only tell them about history from the time they came to America. If a parent or grandparent grew up in another country it doesn't matter. |
I could be wrong, but I think that your initial assumptions were correct.
I interpreted that sentence as:
1) Other than that, I'm pretty Western.
2) A female and short skirts and cleavage neither turn my head nor compel me to throw rocks.
--> HE is pretty western.
--> His head would not be turned by a female, short skirts or cleavage. As well, he would not be compelled to throw rocks when he sees a female, short skirts or cleavage.
I love to show students sentences like this where a single punctuation mark can change the meaning altogether if the context is unknown. |
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RLib
Joined: 17 Apr 2012
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| Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Troglodyte wrote: |
I could be wrong, but I think that your initial assumptions were correct.
I interpreted that sentence as:
1) Other than that, I'm pretty Western.
2) A female and short skirts and cleavage neither turn my head nor compel me to throw rocks.
--> HE is pretty western.
--> His head would not be turned by a female, short skirts or cleavage. As well, he would not be compelled to throw rocks when he sees a female, short skirts or cleavage.
I love to show students sentences like this where a single punctuation mark can change the meaning altogether if the context is unknown. |
Nah, the punctuation mark wasn't a mistake; I have a vagina and a uterus.
Maybe I should use more hearts in my writing, though? To offset the androgynous handle? <3 <3 <3 <3 <3
| JustinC wrote: |
| I'd rather be in a place that I was 'accepted' than one which openly had a negative attitude toward me; it makes life so much easier. |
Agreed, which is also why I don't particularly care to lie about my ethnicity. I'd rather not spend an unpleasant year in a school that's going to have issues with my ethnicity and want to get rid of me. Doesn't sting any less, though. </3 </3 </3
| luckylady wrote: |
there are plenty of middle-easterners in Korea; in fact, at one time I met a fellow who was living there as a Palestinian refugee. Both Japan and Korea accept Palestinians as refugees, in fact. there are also a number of Pakistanis as well, as evidenced by the restaurants and yes, the mosque in Itaewon.
if you've ever attended a soccer match between Korea and Iran, you'll see what I mean.
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Very encouraging! |
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YTMND
Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!
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| Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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| I love to show students sentences like this where a single punctuation mark can change the meaning altogether if the context is unknown. |
That looks like incorrect English then.
"Other than that, I'm pretty Western and a female, and short skirts and cleavage neither turn my head nor compel me to throw rocks."
Other than that, I'm pretty Western and a female (first part)
and short skirts and cleavage neither turn my head nor compel me to throw rocks. (second part)
The comma would have to come before "female" to possibly indicate a male:
"Other than that, I'm pretty Western, and a female and short skirts and cleavage neither turn my head nor compel me to throw rocks."
Other than that, I'm pretty Western (first part)
and a female and short skirts and cleavage neither turn my head nor compel me to throw rocks. (second part)
However, if it were that then we have this issue of too many "and" words:
"and a female and short skirts and cleavage"
So, even if you just saw this sentence on a test, without context, I still think concluding female is the only correct gender here. |
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passport220
Joined: 14 Jun 2006
Location: Gyeongsangbuk-do province
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| Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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| plchron wrote: |
| say you are white and aryan (partially true if from Iran). Who are they to call you a liar? |
A am a garden variety white anglo-saxon protestant (WASP) and my Jr. High students would call me "white monkey", they openly gave me the nickname "Cheetah" (you know, Tarzan's monkey sidekick). One time, a group of female students sang a "Mr. Monkey" song when I walked past (at least they called me "Mr.").
I actually think the students generally liked me and I had a good overall experience in Korea. Not all Koreans are obnoxious in that way, but don't think that being white gets you off scot-free from the racism that does exist in SK.
To the OP, many people who are not really native speakers apply for jobs in SK. Tell your school the truth in detail about your ethnic background, your going to be ask about it often when you arrive, so get used to explaining it. However, also be sure to make it clear that you were born and schooled in the USA, that English is your native language. I don't think they will pull the offer if you do that. |
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Son Deureo!
Joined: 30 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 7:55 pm Post subject: |
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| passport220 wrote: |
| To the OP, many people who are not really native speakers apply for jobs in SK. |
This is the only valid concern they could possibly have about hiring you, so if I were you I'd address exactly that.
| passport220 wrote: |
| Tell your school the truth in detail about your ethnic background, your going to be ask about it often when you arrive, so get used to explaining it. |
I wouldn't bother with this, if I were you. It's none of their damn business and all-too-few Koreans have any understanding of the nuances of ethnic identity in a multi-cultural society. Anything you say about your family's origins in the Middle East will probably only confirm their fears and suspicions that you're not "really American", even though they probably don't have a clue what that means. You don't have to hide anything, but there's no good reason for you to dignify the questions they're asking you with a response.
This goes double for your religion. Whether you're Muslim, Christian, atheist, Voodoun, or Pastafarian, it's none of their damn business. The South Korean constitution has the same protections for freedom of religion as the US constitution, so a public school considering hiring you has absolutely no business inquiring about your faith.
| passport220 wrote: |
| However, also be sure to make it clear that you were born and schooled in the USA, that English is your native language. I don't think they will pull the offer if you do that. |
Passport is 100% right here. Emphasize that while your parents (grandparents?) were born in such-and-such country that YOU were born in Your Hometown, USA, went to Your Elementary School and Your High School, USA and you grew up speaking and studying in English in American institutions. Got any work experience working in American companies? Talk about that. Whether you grew up speaking another language in your home or not, don't even bring it up, it's none of their business. Talk about what you studied in college, your friends and hobbies in the US, and be done with it.
If they probe further, and cast aspersions on your American-ness because of the color of your skin and your last name in any way, I'd seriously consider rejecting their job offer because that's a sign that even if you do sign on you're in for a rough year. Good luck. |
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passport220
Joined: 14 Jun 2006
Location: Gyeongsangbuk-do province
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| Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Son Deureo! wrote: |
| I wouldn't bother with this, if I were you. It's none of their damn business and all-too-few Koreans have any understanding of the nuances of ethnic identity in a multi-cultural society. |
So why not educate them about it? How bigoted are we to think a mature conversation can not take place about race or ethnic background, only because someone is Korean. Yes, many Koreans have some strange and offensive ideas, however a big part of the programs to bring in native speakers is not just to act as English speaking models, but to expose Korean students to other cultures. Adress some of these issues, or as a Korean teacher put it to me "to develop an international mind". It is a published goal of the programs.
Koreans ask many kinds of questions in their culture that are concidered impolite in my home culture. Should we only play by my rules? It is a give and take relationship, you are starting a working relationship, not picking a fight. Unless you have a deep personal aversion to talking about something, why not just tell them who you in terms they are comfortable with? Is your ethnic background some kind of dark secrete?
Koreans know America is a multi-cultural society, they know it in part due to a knowledge of the large Korean-American comunity (North American - Canada too). My co-teacher ask me my ethnic background, I think I look like a standard issue white American as was a bit suprised that she asked, but I will give her credit that she understood "American" is not a ethnic group. |
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Son Deureo!
Joined: 30 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 11:30 pm Post subject: |
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You have a valid point, Passport, but I'd say now is not the time for that yet. Since she hasn't been hired yet, the administrators of this school are probably not asking about her ethnic background because they are interested in receiving a lesson about multiculturalism. More likely, they're trying to determine if she's really a native speaker of the English language and if she holds religious or political views they might find scary. The best way to handle this during the job search is to make it clear that she's just as American as a lily-white WASP like yourself.
Once she gets the job and is working at that school (assuming she still wants it), she'll probably get all kinds of questions about the color of her skin and ethnic/religious background from her students and co-workers. She needs to be ready for that going in, and it's probably just as well that she's getting a taste of that now. Pretty much all of us need to have a thick skin to live and teach in this country, and there will be all kinds of teachable moments that go way beyond the intended curriculum of the English language. She's gotta get her foot in the door first, though. |
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Troglodyte
Joined: 06 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 12:08 am Post subject: |
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| YTMND wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I love to show students sentences like this where a single punctuation mark can change the meaning altogether if the context is unknown. |
That looks like incorrect English then.
"Other than that, I'm pretty Western and a female, and short skirts and cleavage neither turn my head nor compel me to throw rocks."
Other than that, I'm pretty Western and a female (first part)
and short skirts and cleavage neither turn my head nor compel me to throw rocks. (second part)
The comma would have to come before "female" to possibly indicate a male:
"Other than that, I'm pretty Western, and a female and short skirts and cleavage neither turn my head nor compel me to throw rocks."
Other than that, I'm pretty Western (first part)
and a female and short skirts and cleavage neither turn my head nor compel me to throw rocks. (second part)
However, if it were that then we have this issue of too many "and" words:
"and a female and short skirts and cleavage"
So, even if you just saw this sentence on a test, without context, I still think concluding female is the only correct gender here. |
What's your point? |
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passport220
Joined: 14 Jun 2006
Location: Gyeongsangbuk-do province
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 2:01 am Post subject: |
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I don't think we are far apart Son Deureo! . Just tell the employer your ethnic background as they requested, but when you do it (we both agree), be sure to stress your full credentials as a native speaker, make that the focus of your reply.
I don't know if you need to paint yourself as a "lily-white, WASP, American", but the truth is, you DO want to paint yourself as a person who speaks English like one. |
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eventually
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 2:27 am Post subject: |
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ah, this has been a hilarious thread to read. i especially loved the guy telling you to practice taqqiya.
good luck, op! hopefully all goes well for you. |
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Mr Lee's Monkey
Joined: 24 Oct 2007
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 5:38 am Post subject: **** NUGGET ALERT**** |
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"Go easy on females who dress provocatively - it's their culture and not meant to attract male attention"
you must be joking WTF are you kidding
yes, and go easy on women in next to no clothing dancing in KPop videos....... it's their culture and not meant to look like a simulated sex act
go easy on the 6 year olds that imitate them, too, because it's really cute! |
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luckylady
Joined: 30 Jan 2012
Location: u.s. of occupied territories
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 11:24 am Post subject: |
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| eventually wrote: |
ah, this has been a hilarious thread to read. i especially loved the guy telling you to practice taqqiya.
good luck, op! hopefully all goes well for you. |
also good to know none of us here know how to google anything huh?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taqiyya
don't recall anyone saying for the OP to do this
also don't recall the OP saying specifically what religion she is -
which, btw, is none of our business  |
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