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Troglodyte
Joined: 06 Dec 2009
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 Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:46 am Post subject: |
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| Dodge7 wrote: |
| I would entirely agree with you that we should learn the language--but it doesn't happen over night. Furthermore, when two teachers have to rely on each other to communicate for the betterment of the school, there has to be a solid foundation--not one teacher asking questions in English and the other teacher replying in Korean. It's just not effective. And pretty counter-productive. Not to mention strange. |
I take it from your earlier post that you didn't just arrive in the country this morning. I've you've had one student for 2 1/2 years then I guess that you've been in the country at least that long. I've often spoken to co-workers in English and had them reply in Korean. Granted they grade it down to a level they know I can understand, but still there's nothing ineffective or counter-productive about it. I'm able to express my ideas better in English. They're able to express themselves better in Korean. If one of us doesn't understand, we ask for an explanation.
Still, it would not surprise me at all if this teacher can't actually speak English. It wouldn't be the first that I've encountered. Back when I was fresh off the boat I had a few co-workers who were teaching English at the same hogwon who couldn't understand basic things like "Do you have a pen?" or "Where is the photocopy paper?" and if I did manage to convey the question, they weren't able to give me an answer in English. The shocking part is that they usually had a BA in English studies. It seems like there are fewer of these teachers around these days, but maybe it's just that I don't notice them anymore because I can revert to using Korean.
If I was in your place, I'd just leave it be. There is very little to gain from telling the boss about her. In fact, it she might accuse you of something in retaliation, or tell the students something (a lie even) to get them to eventually complain about you. Just leave it be. If the students are noticing already that her English level is low, then they'll tell their mommies and word will get back to the boss soon enough. IF the boss asks you about her English level they you can give an OBJECTIVE assessment, just try not to make it sound personal or else it can be taken as such. Try to at least point out some good stuff (and not as a veiled insult). The last thing that you want is to get involved in an office dispute or to make enemies at work. |
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Dodge7
Joined: 21 Oct 2011
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| Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:04 am Post subject: |
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| Troglodyte wrote: |
| Dodge7 wrote: |
| I would entirely agree with you that we should learn the language--but it doesn't happen over night. Furthermore, when two teachers have to rely on each other to communicate for the betterment of the school, there has to be a solid foundation--not one teacher asking questions in English and the other teacher replying in Korean. It's just not effective. And pretty counter-productive. Not to mention strange. |
I take it from your earlier post that you didn't just arrive in the country this morning. I've you've had one student for 2 1/2 years then I guess that you've been in the country at least that long. I've often spoken to co-workers in English and had them reply in Korean. Granted they grade it down to a level they know I can understand, but still there's nothing ineffective or counter-productive about it. I'm able to express my ideas better in English. They're able to express themselves better in Korean. If one of us doesn't understand, we ask for an explanation.
Still, it would not surprise me at all if this teacher can't actually speak English. It wouldn't be the first that I've encountered. Back when I was fresh off the boat I had a few co-workers who were teaching English at the same hogwon who couldn't understand basic things like "Do you have a pen?" or "Where is the photocopy paper?" and if I did manage to convey the question, they weren't able to give me an answer in English. The shocking part is that they usually had a BA in English studies. It seems like there are fewer of these teachers around these days, but maybe it's just that I don't notice them anymore because I can revert to using Korean.
If I was in your place, I'd just leave it be. There is very little to gain from telling the boss about her. In fact, it she might accuse you of something in retaliation, or tell the students something (a lie even) to get them to eventually complain about you. Just leave it be. If the students are noticing already that her English level is low, then they'll tell their mommies and word will get back to the boss soon enough. IF the boss asks you about her English level they you can give an OBJECTIVE assessment, just try not to make it sound personal or else it can be taken as such. Try to at least point out some good stuff (and not as a veiled insult). The last thing that you want is to get involved in an office dispute or to make enemies at work. |
In my view it is not effective because we can get to the point much quicker if she knows conversational English, plan the course quicker, or resolve a problem that arises that needs immediate attention. Maybe efficient would have been a better choice or words. Like yesterday she was trying to tell me a problem between two students...I had no idea what she was talking about. That's a problem.
I'm sorry, but knowing Korean is NOT in my contract and never EXPECTED of me as a teacher no matter how long I've lived here. Good for you can converse and understand Korean more than me.
All of the Korean "English" teachers should be expected to have an average to above average English ability and if they don't they should have never passed the interview.
I don't see why this goes over some people's heads here on Daves. |
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soomin
Joined: 18 Jun 2009
Location: Daegu
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| Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:23 am Post subject: |
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My old boss couldn't speak English and was always saying something or another, but I rarely understood him... None of his students understood him, and even though he knew grammar, since he couldn't communicate or be understood, all of his students laughed at him behind his back... where I am now, I have to teach classes in Korean, and if I didn't know the moderate level I know, it would just be me sitting in a classroom of screaming children... My current boss also speaks to me in Korean, or speaks about me in Korean while I stand there and smile politely... just more incentives to hit the books harder, lol...
As for the OP... you've been there a long time, but you need to evaluate your place in the company and how the boss sees you. There may be another reason this woman was hired (maybe she's a friend/relative who fell on hard times, who knows) and since you're the foreign teacher, it probably wouldn't be your place to try to get someone fired. I'd leave it to the other teachers to say something and just try your best. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:24 am Post subject: |
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| Ha, ha, I knew someone would make out it was your fault for not speaking Korean before long |
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fustiancorduroy
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 3:08 am Post subject: |
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| Dodge7 wrote: |
In my view it is not effective because we can get to the point much quicker if she knows conversational English, plan the course quicker, or resolve a problem that arises that needs immediate attention. Maybe efficient would have been a better choice or words. Like yesterday she was trying to tell me a problem between two students...I had no idea what she was talking about. That's a problem.
I'm sorry, but knowing Korean is NOT in my contract and never EXPECTED of me as a teacher no matter how long I've lived here. Good for you can converse and understand Korean more than me.
All of the Korean "English" teachers should be expected to have an average to above average English ability and if they don't they should have never passed the interview.
I don't see why this goes over some people's heads here on Daves. |
Dodge7,
You seem to be a reasonable and intelligent fellow, and I don't want to come across as insulting or anything, but I have to ask what exactly is your co-teacher's role? When I first came to Korea, I found it laughable that many Korean English teachers couldn't speak much English. Now that I've been here for nearly six years, I've come to realize that Korean English teachers simply don't need English speaking skills. Here's why.
As I mentioned in my previous post, most Korean teachers teach only reading and listening, which are both input-based learning skills. They are, generally, NOT required to actually SPEAK in English, which is an output-based learning method and largely unrelated to reading and listening. You've presumably been teaching long enough to know that. And I know that you have studied at least some Korean, so I am sure you will agree that reading and listening to Korean comes MUCH easier than actually speaking the language. If your co-teacher understands what you say to her in English, that proves she has the English listening skills necessary to teach English in the role of a typical Korean teacher. If she is teaching speaking to any extent, she should be able to speak English, I totally agree. But if she just teaches the input-based skills of speaking and writing, why would she need to speak English? In short, she doesn't.
I also think you may be overlooking or be unaware of the role English plays in most students' education. They simply have to be able to read and listen to English well enough to not completely flunk the 수능 English portion. Yes, the new NEAT test includes writing and speaking sections, but only students who want to go to better universities are going to bother building skills for those sections of the test. For the vast majority of Koreans, English speaking skills are unnecessary. Even during and after college, most Koreans will simply never use English. They will probably spend their entire lives in Korea and if they encounter a non-Korean with whom they need to interact, the foreigner will probably be able to speak Korean well enough where English is not necessary.
In short, I guess it depends on what your co-teacher's role is. Since you are not contractually obligated to speak Korean and, depending on your co-teacher's role, she might not be contractually obligated to speak English, then, I guess, from a contractual perspective, you will be domed to not being able to communicate with each other. In any case, I hope you are able to sort out your situation, but just make sure you don't make any enemies while doing so. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 3:39 am Post subject: |
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You seem to be a reasonable and intelligent fellow, and I don't want to come across as insulting or anything, but I have to ask what exactly is your co-teacher's role? When I first came to Korea, I found it laughable that many Korean English teachers couldn't speak much English. Now that I've been here for nearly six years, I've come to realize that Korean English teachers simply don't need English speaking skills. Here's why.
As I mentioned in my previous post, most Korean teachers teach only reading and listening, which are both input-based learning skills. They are, generally, NOT required to actually SPEAK in English, which is an output-based learning method and largely unrelated to reading and listening. You've presumably been teaching long enough to know that. And I know that you have studied at least some Korean, so I am sure you will agree that reading and listening to Korean comes MUCH easier than actually speaking the language. If your co-teacher understands what you say to her in English, that proves she has the English listening skills necessary to teach English in the role of a typical Korean teacher. If she is teaching speaking to any extent, she should be able to speak English, I totally agree. But if she just teaches the input-based skills of speaking and writing, why would she need to speak English? In short, she doesn't.
I also think you may be overlooking or be unaware of the role English plays in most students' education. They simply have to be able to read and listen to English well enough to not completely flunk the 수능 English portion. Yes, the new NEAT test includes writing and speaking sections, but only students who want to go to better universities are going to bother building skills for those sections of the test. For the vast majority of Koreans, English speaking skills are unnecessary. Even during and after college, most Koreans will simply never use English. They will probably spend their entire lives in Korea and if they encounter a non-Korean with whom they need to interact, the foreigner will probably be able to speak Korean well enough where English is not necessary.
In short, I guess it depends on what your co-teacher's role is. Since you are not contractually obligated to speak Korean and, depending on your co-teacher's role, she might not be contractually obligated to speak English, then, I guess, from a contractual perspective, you will be domed to not being able to communicate with each other. In any case, I hope you are able to sort out your situation, but just make sure you don't make any enemies while doing so. |
Things have moved on a bit in the last few years. Nowadays Korean teachers are being trained how to teach properly, integrating all the skills into their lessons, using class room language in English and getting the kids doing communicative activities in pairs or groups in class. As a a teacher trainer, I've observed many primary school classes taught entirely in English by a Korean teacher pretty successfully and that's the way the Korean education authorities see English teaching continuing in the future. Dodge's teacher is an anachronism who, if the principal is switched on enough, will be replaced in the near future. Or sent on a training course. |
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Dodge7
Joined: 21 Oct 2011
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| Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:45 am Post subject: |
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| fustiancorduroy wrote: |
| Dodge7 wrote: |
In my view it is not effective because we can get to the point much quicker if she knows conversational English, plan the course quicker, or resolve a problem that arises that needs immediate attention. Maybe efficient would have been a better choice or words. Like yesterday she was trying to tell me a problem between two students...I had no idea what she was talking about. That's a problem.
I'm sorry, but knowing Korean is NOT in my contract and never EXPECTED of me as a teacher no matter how long I've lived here. Good for you can converse and understand Korean more than me.
All of the Korean "English" teachers should be expected to have an average to above average English ability and if they don't they should have never passed the interview.
I don't see why this goes over some people's heads here on Daves. |
Dodge7,
You seem to be a reasonable and intelligent fellow, and I don't want to come across as insulting or anything, but I have to ask what exactly is your co-teacher's role? When I first came to Korea, I found it laughable that many Korean English teachers couldn't speak much English. Now that I've been here for nearly six years, I've come to realize that Korean English teachers simply don't need English speaking skills. Here's why.
As I mentioned in my previous post, most Korean teachers teach only reading and listening, which are both input-based learning skills. They are, generally, NOT required to actually SPEAK in English, which is an output-based learning method and largely unrelated to reading and listening. You've presumably been teaching long enough to know that. And I know that you have studied at least some Korean, so I am sure you will agree that reading and listening to Korean comes MUCH easier than actually speaking the language. If your co-teacher understands what you say to her in English, that proves she has the English listening skills necessary to teach English in the role of a typical Korean teacher. If she is teaching speaking to any extent, she should be able to speak English, I totally agree. But if she just teaches the input-based skills of speaking and writing, why would she need to speak English? In short, she doesn't.
I also think you may be overlooking or be unaware of the role English plays in most students' education. They simply have to be able to read and listen to English well enough to not completely flunk the 수능 English portion. Yes, the new NEAT test includes writing and speaking sections, but only students who want to go to better universities are going to bother building skills for those sections of the test. For the vast majority of Koreans, English speaking skills are unnecessary. Even during and after college, most Koreans will simply never use English. They will probably spend their entire lives in Korea and if they encounter a non-Korean with whom they need to interact, the foreigner will probably be able to speak Korean well enough where English is not necessary.
In short, I guess it depends on what your co-teacher's role is. Since you are not contractually obligated to speak Korean and, depending on your co-teacher's role, she might not be contractually obligated to speak English, then, I guess, from a contractual perspective, you will be domed to not being able to communicate with each other. In any case, I hope you are able to sort out your situation, but just make sure you don't make any enemies while doing so. |
Fust,
As for your main question, her role is to run the after school program and collaborate with me in making lessons, conveying parents' requests/comments to me, and basically running the school. It's me and her--no one else. If I worked at a hagwon trust me I wouldn't care that my co-teacher couldn't speak English. But I feel since it's just me and her, she is reflecting my school in a negative light (which indirectly reflects on me I feel), and when she speaks to me in Korean in front of parents that come to pick up their children it makes for an awkward situation. I can see the thoughts racing through the parents' minds--"Why is this woman speaking Korean to this foreigner??" With such an obligation like running a whole English school program, this woman needs to be able to communicate with her partner.
Can you imagine opening a business with a Russian and having him speak only Russian with you? You can see the unnecessary struggles that it would create within your business. It couldn't function 100% correctly and down the line your lack of communication would result in utter confusion and it would inevitably affect your livelihood--that's where the line in the sand has to be drawn. |
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Who's Your Daddy?
Joined: 30 May 2010
Location: Victoria, Canada.
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| Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 5:13 am Post subject: |
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| Don't get involved. You will be blamed. Let the mothers handle it. |
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Nismo
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
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| Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 5:59 am Post subject: |
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| Who's Your Daddy? wrote: |
| Don't get involved. You will be blamed. Let the mothers handle it. |
How will he not get blamed if he lets everyone else explain themselves? It seems like you're setting him up to be the scapegoat. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 7:12 am Post subject: |
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Maybe she can read and write better than she can speak. Carry a portable whiteboard?
Other than that...I dunno what to say. Call in sick one day and force your boss to have to teach with her? Maybe then she can see that she's unfit for the job. |
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NilesQ
Joined: 27 Nov 2006
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| Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 10:51 am Post subject: |
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| If Korean teachers could speak English, we wouldn't have jobs! |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 11:58 am Post subject: |
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It would be next to impossible for him to learn Korean within the confines of
his teaching job.
He might be able to use a few simple words and phrases, but he is years away from being able to discuss lessons or student problems in a meaningful way.
My best guess is at least 2 years of full time study, that is doing nothing else but study Korean.
Working at a job and trying to study part-time, you can extend that period by
5 - 10 years.
One thing it might acheive though; it might show him how difficult learning can be. Korean and English are so vastly different. It's a monumental task from either side. |
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Dodge7
Joined: 21 Oct 2011
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| Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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| NilesQ wrote: |
| If Korean teachers could speak English, we wouldn't have jobs! |
So you condone my situation?  |
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Squire
Joined: 26 Sep 2010
Location: Jeollanam-do
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| Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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Probably already been mentioned, but out of class ask her to write down what she is trying to communicate.
Something I've noticed in some other foreigners here is that they can't seem to speak English slowly, using simple words and expressions and short sentences. With a bit of experience teaching and studying a language you learn what somebody of low ability is likely to know, yet there still seem to be plenty of foreign English teachers who can't grasp that. I'm not accusing the OP because I don't know his situation, but I expect plenty have difficulty communicating because of that
In the OP's case I'd recommend familiarising yourself with basic classroom expressions and language, like write, listen, watch, read etc. It may be that you're already at that level, in which case the KT should be using simple Korean if she absolutely must |
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NilesQ
Joined: 27 Nov 2006
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Dodge7 wrote: |
| NilesQ wrote: |
| If Korean teachers could speak English, we wouldn't have jobs! |
So you condone my situation? |
Doesn't matter what I think. If it truly impacted you as you claim, you'd do something about it. It bothers you enough to complain anonymously about it on the internet, but not enough to act on it. If you do nothing, then you are condoning it. I'm merely observing from afar.
Cost benefit analysis time. What will be the negative vs positive impacts of action and non-action. Decide what you can live with and proceed. Seeking approval from others for action shows how ill prepared you are to act. |
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