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sml7285
Joined: 26 Apr 2012
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 Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 10:56 pm Post subject: Re: Anti-foreigner groups on rise |
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| ttompatz wrote: |
| sml7285 wrote: |
"Discrimination: Discrimination is the prejudicial treatment of an individual based on their membership - or perceived membership - in a certain group or category."
The two are not mutually exclusive. |
Closed border policies are protectionist. Nobody gets in. Everyone is treated equally = no discrimination.
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Protectionism keeps out foreigners for the benefit of low-skilled local workers (the creation of an artificial price floor by removing the population of available workers).
What I'm saying is that migrants are "discriminated" (by basis of country of citizenship) relative to how local low skill workers are treated, not that certain migrant groups are preferentially chosen over others.
We're talking about different things... |
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ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:11 am Post subject: Re: Anti-foreigner groups on rise |
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| sml7285 wrote: |
| ttompatz wrote: |
| sml7285 wrote: |
"Discrimination: Discrimination is the prejudicial treatment of an individual based on their membership - or perceived membership - in a certain group or category."
The two are not mutually exclusive. |
Closed border policies are protectionist. Nobody gets in. Everyone is treated equally = no discrimination.
|
Protectionism keeps out foreigners for the benefit of low-skilled local workers (the creation of an artificial price floor by removing the population of available workers).
What I'm saying is that migrants are "discriminated" (by basis of country of citizenship) relative to how local low skill workers are treated, not that certain migrant groups are preferentially chosen over others.
We're talking about different things... |
So Korea should somehow and for some reason be different than Australia or the USA?
They should have markedly different immigration policies than those from the UK or the EU?
Perhaps NZ and Canada have open arms to accept everyone who wants to get on a plane regardless of their education or ability to cope?
Why doesn't Korea (or any of the other countries listed above) just open the borders and allow all of the economic refugees from around the globe into their respective countries without restriction?
Governments protecting their citizens (as they should) to the disadvantage of migrant workers is a truism world wide without exception.
If you want the ability to travel without significant restriction and work just about anywhere on the globe then get the cash or the skills to put you in demand.
The alternative is to stay home.
Korea is no exception and I see no reason why it should be (at least not until the G7 make the change 1st).
When the USofA or Canada or the UK or the EU opens the doors to unlimited immigration without restrictions for poor, illiterate, migrant workers and economic refugees then I will jump on your bandwagon.
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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I personally think Canada has done more than its share in this regard.
According to this site:
http://www.immigrationwatchcanada.org/
The reality is that Canada�s 250,000 per year immigration intake since 1990 has been far too high. In fact, Canada�s intake is the highest per capita in the world. And, contrary to the claims of our political parties, it has obviously been destructive and senseless.
I'm not saying I agree with the opinions of this website btw.
Immigration has both good and bad effects, and it's not always easy to
see the good.
One thing I think the Canadian gov't realizes is that Canada's population is aging. Canada needs more young, working age people to become
tax-paying citizens in order to balance things out.
(at least that's the theory) |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 4:21 pm Post subject: Re: . |
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| John Junior wrote: |
This is South Korea, certainly not Japan and never will be like Hong Kong, Japan or Singapore where globalisation for those places really has taken off in the affirmative.
In South Korea people are stuck in a time warp. I was here ten years ago and nothing has changed in the form of cultural acceptance of minorities or English speaking educators.
Globalisation for Koreans means simply adapting to new technologies, certainly not intercultural experiences or cultural awareness. The only Koreans that have accepted Western values are those that have left S.K permanently and never want to return.
It is synonymous to the Europeans that have adapted to living in the North and South Americas, Canada or Australia, and admit with conviction that those countries are better than Europe. At least I have accepted my adopted country positively, though there are always minor issues.
There are no antiforeigner groups in Australia, yes we do have racist issues I should know I have experienced racism myself, but generally people are amicable and welcoming and have changed a lot. Koreans will never accept anyone that is not Korean, simple. They look down on the Chinese, that are their cultural and genetic predecessors why would they accept a Phillipino taking away a job meant for a Korean, and as if the Phillipinos here have it easy anyway.
Anti-foreigner groups on the rise in South Korea does not surprise me, considering they are so ethnocentric and we all know given any opporutunity will attack verbally or physically any foreigner that is in a vulnerable position. I have been here four months and have experienced violent threats and ridiculing by native Koreans several times. One incident was in kangnam on a Saturday at 3 pm! And by no means do I have swarthy skin, I look like a Brit but am originally from the European continent. I am not German.
I have no respect for most Koreans nor would I live here permanently. They simply can not and will not accept cultural diversity, that is was makes Australia a great country. I can not think of anything more boring than mono culture. Homogeneity in paradigms both social and creative does not make for diversity, Korea is not a culturally diverse country like Hong Kong, Singapore or Japan, (Japan to a lesser extent)
And that people make claims South Korea is a developed country have rocks for membranes in their skull. Developed?  So if it were a developed country why is everyone, including myself complaining about the lack of civililty and its racist stereotyping of foreigners? 
For the record, a sticky should me made with the header: ''Racist Koreans'' need I elaborate? |
I was pretty mad about the whole MBC incident and the English Spectrum group (as they seemed to have renamed themselves as). Had some ignorant Koreans tease me about weight when I first got here. I was in the countryside and it was so hot my first year, I just wanted to stay in my shoebox apartment under my air con. (Weight gain followed.)
Anyways, I've never been threatened with violence over the past several years. But I haven't cruised Gangnam or Hongdae much at night either. Sorry to hear you got threatened by Koreans at 3 pm in Gangnam. Seems odd and highly unusual. Anyone else experience this? |
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Los Angeloser
Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 5:08 pm Post subject: Re: Anti-foreigner groups on rise |
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| ttompatz wrote: |
| sml7285 wrote: |
| ttompatz wrote: |
| sml7285 wrote: |
"Discrimination: Discrimination is the prejudicial treatment of an individual based on their membership - or perceived membership - in a certain group or category."
The two are not mutually exclusive. |
Closed border policies are protectionist. Nobody gets in. Everyone is treated equally = no discrimination.
|
Protectionism keeps out foreigners for the benefit of low-skilled local workers (the creation of an artificial price floor by removing the population of available workers).
What I'm saying is that migrants are "discriminated" (by basis of country of citizenship) relative to how local low skill workers are treated, not that certain migrant groups are preferentially chosen over others.
We're talking about different things... |
So Korea should somehow and for some reason be different than Australia or the USA?
They should have markedly different immigration policies than those from the UK or the EU?
Perhaps NZ and Canada have open arms to accept everyone who wants to get on a plane regardless of their education or ability to cope?
Why doesn't Korea (or any of the other countries listed above) just open the borders and allow all of the economic refugees from around the globe into their respective countries without restriction?
Governments protecting their citizens (as they should) to the disadvantage of migrant workers is a truism world wide without exception.
If you want the ability to travel without significant restriction and work just about anywhere on the globe then get the cash or the skills to put you in demand.
The alternative is to stay home.
Korea is no exception and I see no reason why it should be (at least not until the G7 make the change 1st).
When the USofA or Canada or the UK or the EU opens the doors to unlimited immigration without restrictions for poor, illiterate, migrant workers and economic refugees then I will jump on your bandwagon.
. |
Korea is not different than Canada, likening Korea and Canada, that's a good one. Some places simply do things better than others. Why didn't you equate S. Korea to Japan?
JAPAN: A CAUTIONARY TALE
"Japan has one of the strictest immigration policies in the world and has historically been closed off to outsiders. It has a foreign population of less than 2% - six times smaller than the percentage of the U.S.
But what are the effects of keeping foreigners out?"
Fareed Zakaria looks at how the immigration systems work � and don't work � in Japan, Europe, Canada and the U.S. in the TV special: "Global Lessons: The GPS Roadmap for Making Immigration Work" which aired on CNN on Sunday, June 10.
CANADA: GETTING IT RIGHT
"If Japan�s strict immigration policy serves as a cautionary tale and Europe�s experiment is still a work in progress, then take a look at Canada � a nation with more foreign-born per capita than the United States.
Canada may not have the cache the U.S. does � but it holds great appeal for would-be immigrants, says The Economist�s Guest.
�Canada offers many of the same things that America does � a very high standard of living, the rule of law, peace, safety,� he says.
To determine whom it should let in to live and work, Canada uses a point system. You don't even need a job or employer, just skills. Applicants are awarded points for proficiency in education, languages and job experience.
Just why is Canada so ready to accept immigrants with open arms...?"
An Immigration lesson with Videos...
http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com/2012/06/10/immigration-lessons-for-the-u-s-from-around-the-world/ |
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slothrop
Joined: 03 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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edit
Last edited by slothrop on Thu Jun 21, 2012 8:02 am; edited 1 time in total |
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sml7285
Joined: 26 Apr 2012
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 2:34 am Post subject: Re: Anti-foreigner groups on rise |
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| ttompatz wrote: |
| sml7285 wrote: |
| ttompatz wrote: |
| sml7285 wrote: |
"Discrimination: Discrimination is the prejudicial treatment of an individual based on their membership - or perceived membership - in a certain group or category."
The two are not mutually exclusive. |
Closed border policies are protectionist. Nobody gets in. Everyone is treated equally = no discrimination.
|
Protectionism keeps out foreigners for the benefit of low-skilled local workers (the creation of an artificial price floor by removing the population of available workers).
What I'm saying is that migrants are "discriminated" (by basis of country of citizenship) relative to how local low skill workers are treated, not that certain migrant groups are preferentially chosen over others.
We're talking about different things... |
So Korea should somehow and for some reason be different than Australia or the USA?
They should have markedly different immigration policies than those from the UK or the EU?
Perhaps NZ and Canada have open arms to accept everyone who wants to get on a plane regardless of their education or ability to cope?
Why doesn't Korea (or any of the other countries listed above) just open the borders and allow all of the economic refugees from around the globe into their respective countries without restriction?
Governments protecting their citizens (as they should) to the disadvantage of migrant workers is a truism world wide without exception.
If you want the ability to travel without significant restriction and work just about anywhere on the globe then get the cash or the skills to put you in demand.
The alternative is to stay home.
Korea is no exception and I see no reason why it should be (at least not until the G7 make the change 1st).
When the USofA or Canada or the UK or the EU opens the doors to unlimited immigration without restrictions for poor, illiterate, migrant workers and economic refugees then I will jump on your bandwagon.
. |
I'm not talking specifics.... I'm stating that any country using protectionism gives an advantage to local nationals, which is, yes, technically discrimination.
While I'm not suggesting that all borders to all countries should be open, countries need to be wary of moving towards a mercantilistic society, which can lead to some bad juju. |
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metalhead
Joined: 18 May 2010
Location: Toilet
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:00 am Post subject: Re: Anti-foreigner groups on rise |
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| sml7285 wrote: |
I'm not talking specifics.... I'm stating that any country using protectionism gives an advantage to local nationals, which is, yes, technically discrimination.
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Guess you must have some pretty big beefs with Norway and Switzerland then, huh? You know, two countries that are doing absolutely fine. |
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jaj
Joined: 01 Oct 2011
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:52 am Post subject: |
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| Saw an article in the New York Times last year about Asian anchor babies. Asian women boarding planes just as they're ready to give birth and cutting out after the baby is born in "USA." The comment section was filled with people who thought this was harmless. Americans are comparatively polite on this subject if you ask me. |
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sml7285
Joined: 26 Apr 2012
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:01 am Post subject: Re: Anti-foreigner groups on rise |
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| metalhead wrote: |
| sml7285 wrote: |
I'm not talking specifics.... I'm stating that any country using protectionism gives an advantage to local nationals, which is, yes, technically discrimination.
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Guess you must have some pretty big beefs with Norway and Switzerland then, huh? You know, two countries that are doing absolutely fine. |
... Man - and here I was, thinking that you all had some sort of handle over the English language. Yes - the word discrimination has negative connotations attached to it; however, it's possible to use the word in its actual definition - you know, without the negative connotations society has pegged onto it.
I'm not saying that "discrimination" by the way of protectionism is bad. I'm just stating that protectionism at its base is in fact discrimination. Is that too much to understand? |
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Julius
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 6:33 am Post subject: |
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| geldedgoat wrote: |
| Nothing wrong with Korean citizens being upset about illegal migrant workers. |
From what I've heard, the number of visas handed out is far less than the number of workers required.
This forces many economic migrants to become illegal in order to take advantage of the employment opportunities.
It creates a convenient pool of easily-exploitable workers. |
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chungbukdo
Joined: 22 Aug 2010
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chungbukdo
Joined: 22 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 6:44 am Post subject: Re: Anti-foreigner groups on rise |
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| sml7285 wrote: |
I'm not talking specifics.... I'm stating that any country using protectionism gives an advantage to local nationals, which is, yes, technically discrimination.
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Protectionism doesn't give economic advantages to anyone, that's why North Korea is not the richest country in the world right now even though they're "self reliant."
People need to understand that "protecting" domestic industries and labour hurts domestic consumers and employers respectively, and reduces the total level of wealth created within the country. |
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chungbukdo
Joined: 22 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 6:48 am Post subject: Re: Anti-foreigner groups on rise |
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| Los Angeloser wrote: |
CANADA: GETTING IT RIGHT
"If Japan�s strict immigration policy serves as a cautionary tale and Europe�s experiment is still a work in progress, then take a look at Canada � a nation with more foreign-born per capita than the United States.
Canada may not have the cache the U.S. does � but it holds great appeal for would-be immigrants, says The Economist�s Guest.
�Canada offers many of the same things that America does � a very high standard of living, the rule of law, peace, safety,� he says.
To determine whom it should let in to live and work, Canada uses a point system. You don't even need a job or employer, just skills. Applicants are awarded points for proficiency in education, languages and job experience.
Just why is Canada so ready to accept immigrants with open arms...?"
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Best talk on immigration I've heard, that isn't all opinions and conjecture but actual numbers and research (by an economist):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYk00Ufiqb4 (starts at 4:45) |
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Enrico Palazzo
Mod Team
Joined: 11 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 6:57 am Post subject: Re: . |
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| John Junior wrote: |
This is South Korea, certainly not Japan and never will be like Hong Kong, Japan or Singapore where globalisation for those places really has taken off in the affirmative.
In South Korea people are stuck in a time warp. I was here ten years ago and nothing has changed in the form of cultural acceptance of minorities or English speaking educators.
Globalisation for Koreans means simply adapting to new technologies, certainly not intercultural experiences or cultural awareness. The only Koreans that have accepted Western values are those that have left S.K permanently and never want to return.
It is synonymous to the Europeans that have adapted to living in the North and South Americas, Canada or Australia, and admit with conviction that those countries are better than Europe. At least I have accepted my adopted country positively, though there are always minor issues.
There are no antiforeigner groups in Australia, yes we do have racist issues I should know I have experienced racism myself, but generally people are amicable and welcoming and have changed a lot. Koreans will never accept anyone that is not Korean, simple. They look down on the Chinese, that are their cultural and genetic predecessors why would they accept a Phillipino taking away a job meant for a Korean, and as if the Phillipinos here have it easy anyway.
Anti-foreigner groups on the rise in South Korea does not surprise me, considering they are so ethnocentric and we all know given any opporutunity will attack verbally or physically any foreigner that is in a vulnerable position. I have been here four months and have experienced violent threats and ridiculing by native Koreans several times. One incident was in kangnam on a Saturday at 3 pm! And by no means do I have swarthy skin, I look like a Brit but am originally from the European continent. I am not German.
I have no respect for most Koreans nor would I live here permanently. They simply can not and will not accept cultural diversity, that is was makes Australia a great country. I can not think of anything more boring than mono culture. Homogeneity in paradigms both social and creative does not make for diversity, Korea is not a culturally diverse country like Hong Kong, Singapore or Japan, (Japan to a lesser extent)
And that people make claims South Korea is a developed country have rocks for membranes in their skull. Developed? So if it were a developed country why is everyone, including myself complaining about the lack of civililty and its racist stereotyping of foreigners?
For the record, a sticky should me made with the header: ''Racist Koreans'' need I elaborate? |
I think you're making huge generalizations in your post. And you just stated that Koreans have rocks for membranes. That's a clear TOS violation. You can express yourself without being so racist while complaining how you find the locals racist. What's the point in complaining about racism when you use such language? I can understand you're angry, but many people who are racist locally can claim they're angry about something. Folks stay within the TOS.
Thank you.. |
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