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MBC:The Shocking Reality About Relationships With Foreigners
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The Cosmic Hum

Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space

Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:10 pm Post subject:

Newbie wrote:

EZE wrote:

Dodge7 wrote:

You are such a loser for even taking the time to make this up and you'd have to be stupid to believe this ever happened.

Should we have an old school Dave's poster ask her through her facebook page if I'm telling the truth? We can do it.

Don't know much about Korea NOW, but when I first got there (2003), this story would be VERY believable. I'm thinking it's still quite believable

Well...one thing is for certain...things like this certainly don't happen to Dodge7.

TheUrbanMyth

Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired

Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 2:48 pm Post subject:

comm wrote:

TheUrbanMyth wrote:

If even ONE teacher slacks off then Korea is not getting value for its money.
...
And since that is my entire argument I think we are done here.

How enlightening. You've determined that, out of a population of tens of thousands, at least one worker is doing the bare minimum.

Would you like to make any other Earth-shattering claims? Maybe something involving the Sun coming up tomorrow?

Would you like to quote my post in full rather than take two sentences out of the context they were placed in?

I quite clearly indicated there was more than one teacher slacking off.

Nor is this earth-shattering or new...Koreans have been noticing this and responding to it for years

Here's an article from 2009

http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2009/05/117_44427.html

And one even earlier from 2006

http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/08/17/english-teacher-blacklist/

some waygug-in

Joined: 25 Jan 2003

Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:15 pm Post subject:

I'd bet dollars to donuts, those teachers were "slacking off" because they weren't allowed to actually teach anything. Probably were just told to stand in the corner and parrot what the CD's have on them. Either that or were expected to pull lessons out of their nether regions at the drop of a hat.

fermentation

Joined: 22 Jun 2009

Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 4:24 pm Post subject:

Squire wrote:

But seriously, where is it?

Haha

EZE wrote:

It's in Anyang, in the il-bong ga area where a lot of bars are. If you come out of Anyang subway station, go to the underground shopping mall at the station and come out of exit 1. This will be about a 10 minute walk. After you come out of the underground mall, hang a left and go to the area with all of the nightlife. The KFC is at the first corner on the left.

Nothing ever happened anytime I ate upstairs. It was after 11 pm on a Friday night when this happened. I usually ate upstairs since there was a lot more space up there, but since I arrived there so late, I assumed rightly or wrongly the upstairs dining area may have been closed and sat at the window downstairs instead. I was sitting and eating when a young Korean lady walked by outside of KFC, and she smiled and waved, as if she knew me. I definitely didn't know her, but I smiled back. She came in and sat at the stool to my left. She wouldn't make eye contact and she was blushing, but she was talking a lot. After introducing herself, she said, "Okay, Hamburger Boy, let's go." I was actually eating a chicken sandwich. I asked, "Where are we going?" She then asked where I lived and said we were going to have sex.

Is there more to the story?

slothrop

Joined: 03 Feb 2003

Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:47 pm Post subject:

edit Last edited by slothrop on Sat Jun 23, 2012 12:06 am; edited 1 time in total

fermentation

Joined: 22 Jun 2009

Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:52 pm Post subject:

slothrop wrote:

they left kfc together and she said, " i can't wait any longer, lets get the first room we find". and there just happened to be one next door to the kfc for the budget business travellor. she insisted on paying for the room saying it was customary in her country, and she thought it was cute that he'd never heard of that custom before and flicked his nose with her finger. upon entering the room she turned on the television and suggested he take a shower. he threw his clothes on the floor and disappeared into the bathroom, from which he could hear the television with the familiar laugh track and "ooooooh" sounds. when he came out from the bathroom she was gone. he sat down on the bed confused and then noticed that his clothes were not on the floor where he left them. he frantically looked around the room but they, along with his wallet and cell phone were no where to be found. he said out loud to the room "why does this keep happeing to me?!"

Doesn't seem like the best way to rob somebody. What if the victim only has 5 bucks in his wallet? Probably would've made more sense to go his house, drug him and go through his stuff.

komerican

Joined: 17 Dec 2006

Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:58 pm Post subject:

TheUrbanMyth wrote:

comm wrote:

TheUrbanMyth wrote:

If even ONE teacher slacks off then Korea is not getting value for its money.
...
And since that is my entire argument I think we are done here.

My 2 cents on this is that in the business area Koreans for the most part need Email English. Also, English is needed for graduate school. But English in the latter case is mostly learned while taking these graduate courses since they usually require professional jargon and terms, which can only be learned while taking those courses.

All the rest which is taught now is pretty useless; I mean the aim is not, or shouldn't be, to produce a great batch of Korean fiction writers in English. Who would read those books in English anyway? lol. The great markets for books in English are in the West, afterall.

Urbanmyth is right on this. But, I don't think Koreans grasp this though, Wink

dairyairy

Joined: 17 May 2012
Location: South Korea

Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:28 pm Post subject:

komerican wrote:

TheUrbanMyth wrote:

comm wrote:

TheUrbanMyth wrote:

If even ONE teacher slacks off then Korea is not getting value for its money.
...
And since that is my entire argument I think we are done here.

You're forgetting talking on the phone which is conversational English.
Plus, many young Koreans want to have the option of attending university overseas. They will need conversational English for that option. If they want to travel and live in other countries then they will need conversational English.
Koamerican, you're forgetting the many advantages you have because you learned English as a child. You should try this exercise. Take a piece of paper and a pen and write down all of the things you can do because you know English. If you are honest, you'll see so many wonderful things you can do. Now, why would you deny those opportunities to younger Koreans?

dairyairy

Joined: 17 May 2012
Location: South Korea

Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:31 pm Post subject:

urbanmyth, you should take my advice and think more about the positives of teaching. All of this negativity can't be good for you. Teaching has to be more than just a job. You need to love helping others.

Adventurer

Joined: 28 Jan 2006

Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:52 pm Post subject:

TheUrbanMyth wrote:

comm wrote:

TheUrbanMyth wrote:

If even ONE teacher slacks off then Korea is not getting value for its money.
...
And since that is my entire argument I think we are done here.

12% versus not 88%. I'm not sure how you're making your case if 88% were problem-free. Also, in some cases someone can be labeled a bad teacher when that teacher's not a bad teacher. I'll give an example. I was going to take over the position of a British teacher. I was told that I was replacing a "bad" teacher. Why was he bad? According to him, they loved him until they found out he wanted a plane ticket, though he was not going to end up using it because that's what his contract stated.

Also, the article mentions some of the teachers didn't want to teach certain afternoon classes. Not wanting to teacher certain classes doesn't make one bad. We don't know what percent of the teachers fell under that. We're only getting one side of the story. Do we have the feedback from the instructors?

I had an instructor friend who was openly told by his principle "I hate you Americans", and he was trying to force a teacher to pay a huge electric bill to the tune of 1 million won. Obviously, it was no his electricity. And dismissing someone because they went to the hospital because they were overweight sounds odd. Legally, they're suppose to get sick days, but some public schools won't give it to them. Do we really know what happened? No. Imagine dismissing a teacher in the U.S. because the teacher went to the hospital a few times. Do you know how ridiculous that sounds?

You can argue that no company is going to 100% from their workers. Are you going to tell me all the Korean engineers at Samsung are all being efficient and exemplary workers and all the workers at Ford are doing so, too?

No place will get 100% of what they invest in a venture. There's always some waste. Find me a company that is 100% efficient.

Last edited by Adventurer on Fri Jun 22, 2012 6:17 am; edited 1 time in total

The Cosmic Hum

Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space

Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:36 pm Post subject:

slothrop wrote:

they left kfc together and she said, " i can't wait any longer, lets get the first room we find". and there just happened to be a yogwan next door to the kfc for the budget business travellor. she insisted on paying for the room saying it was customary in her country, and she thought it was cute that he'd never heard of that custom before and flicked his nose with her finger. upon entering the room she turned on the television and suggested he take a shower. he threw his clothes on the floor and disappeared into the bathroom. he could hear the television with the familiar laugh track and "ooooooh" sounds. when he came out from the bathroom she was gone. he sat down on the bed confused and then noticed that his clothes were not on the floor where he left them. he frantically looked around the room but they, along with his wallet and cell phone were no where to be found. he said out loud to the room "why does this keep happeing to me?!"

Priceless.

crescent

Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: yes.

Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 12:45 am Post subject:

Adventurer wrote:

Also, the article mentions some of the teachers didn't want to teacher certain afternoon classes. Not wanting to teacher certain classes doesn't make one bad. We don't know what percent of the teachers fell under that. We're only getting one side of the story. Do we have the feedback from the instructors?

The 2009 article also mentions some instructors being dismissed for poor health. For that reason alone that article can be dismissed as irresponsible journalism. Just living here for year gives you the experience to know there is more to the story than what was reported. And even if that was the whole story, does a teacher with poor health mean "their methods (are) inappropriate for teaching students in English".

Most EFL employers here can be painted with the same brush that TUM paints his peers with. As recently as last year, I had a call from the Busan Dept. of Ed., asking for a reference regarding a teacher I hired, and would not renew. I gave a realistic, unflattering report on her personality and teaching skills. I punctuated it with a 20% satisfaction level on her performance.

They hired her anyway, and I was her only EFL reference in her short employment history featuring a nanny position as the highlight. Just the same, hogwans are known to hire the first blue eyed charmer they can find. Now, I work at a National Uni, and the textbook we use is more worthless than the Korean Herald. It was written by a crony of the administration head, so in their eyes its great. Then , there's the simple fact that MANY Korean Unis are merely degree mills where instructors are prompted to coddle adult students as babies and feed them with A plusses.. So, maybe the Ulsan Dept. Of Ed operates with the same level of idiocy as the examples I just mentioned.

I bet for every slack foreigner TUM can drum up, I could find a clueless, crony principal, or sleazy hog wan owner, or Korean teacher without the proper skills or ability to be teaching. In the end, I don't think the Koreans I have worked with are better educators, or better people than the foreigners I have worked with.

Adventurer

Joined: 28 Jan 2006

Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:50 pm Post subject:

[quote="crescent"]

Quote:

Most EFL employers here can be painted with the same brush that TUM paints his peers with. As recently as last year, I had a call from the Busan Dept. of Ed., asking for a reference regarding a teacher I hired, and would not renew. I gave a realistic, unflattering report on her personality and teaching skills. I punctuated it with a 20% satisfaction level on her performance.

I don't want to beat a dead horse, but I'll give some concluding remarks. TUM ignores completely the problems with the Korean education system at the university, public school, and hagwon level. He ignores the fact that Korea hires, we don't hire. And in the case of the woman you're referring to she was probably a white female. For them, she didn't have to be super qualified. But to be fair, hiring another person would also be an unknown.

Quote:

They hired her anyway, and I was her only EFL reference in her short employment history featuring a nanny position as the highlight. Just the same, hogwans are known to hire the first blue eyed charmer they can find. Now, I work at a National Uni, and the textbook we use is more worthless than the Korean Herald. It was written by a crony of the administration head, so in their eyes its great. Then , there's the simple fact that MANY Korean Unis are merely degree mills where instructors are prompted to coddle adult students as babies and feed them with A plusses.. So, maybe the Ulsan Dept. Of Ed operates with the same level of idiocy as the examples I just mentioned.

When I worked at a hagwon, I wanted my boss to hire a guy from Texas who had a teaching certificate and years of experience. He was in his 40s, so she said no. She wanted a young female. And the boss could not speak English.

As far as the universities here, there's pressure to give students relatively high grades at many universities. My students are mostly good students. I don't have an issue with them. We also have very good text books, but the fact that you're using a horrible text book written by a local because he has connections shows that to a large extent quality is often sacrificed when it comes to learning English.

Lastly, I've never heard of a teacher in the U.S. being dismissed and the fact that they were overweight was mentioned. Perhaps, the teachers took some sick days, which is considered normal in America and in some Korean schools, unless the principal is very old-fashioned and thinks taking a day off is a bad thing. A foreigner I know told me once she was sick, and her hagwon boss was upset that she didn't go in with an IV. Many North Americans feel that if you're sick and have sick days, you should feel like you can take them since your contract says you can, and it's possible the schools tried to justify dismissing those teachers who took sick days as having had "weight" issues.

We don't even have any of those dismissed telling us their story. Also some of the teachers didn't want to teach certain classes, and they were dismissed for that. Why is TUM automatically assuming, without evidence, that the foreigner is in the wrong? I knew a friend who did a midnight run when her schedule was changed in a way that she felt was unacceptable. I can't remember the details. That was one main reason she left. What if some of those who were dismissed actually left!

Quote:

I bet for every slack foreigner TUM can drum up, I could find a clueless, crony principal, or sleazy hog wan owner, or Korean teacher without the proper skills or ability to be teaching. In the end, I don't think the Koreans I have worked with are better educators, or better people than the foreigners I have worked with.

At the end of the day, Korea has improved its rankings when it comes to English education. There's no doubt about it, but TUM doesn't want to focus on that. The Koreans are not better than the foreigners, but there's all this focus on the foreigners, not the Korean instructors and bosses. They should feel the heat more than us. There are more of them.

EZE

Joined: 05 May 2012

Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 10:56 pm Post subject:

fermentation wrote:

Is there more to the story?

Yeah. Oddly, we had the same name. Stranger yet, she was young and pretty and I'm old and bald.

We left the KFC and went to my place. I'm the guy who worked at Wonderland, so I had no bed and no refrigerator. There wasn't much else to steal out of there either. It was perhaps the most spartan apartment in all of Korea, North or South. The teacher who had been hired before me had pulled a midnight runner after three days of living there, and I'm assuming it was because the apartment was such a dump.

Anyway, Miss KFC's mom kept calling her on her cell phone. She took her coat off and was pointing toward the door. I thought she was worried about the door being unlocked, but the light switch was by the door and she was wanting the lights off before she took off her shirt. She never did take off her bra.

There was a condom issue and it was too late to get a morning after pill on Friday night. She contacted me on Saturday wanting to hook up again, but I was all about the morning after pill. She quickly lost interest in meeting, but I was persistent about the pill and I finally talked her into meeting me in front of the CGV on Sunday morning. The pharmacies wouldn't sell one without a prescription. We went to the SAM clinic in Anyang, and they referred us to the nearby women's clinic. On the third floor there, they gave her a pill and she got some water out of a water cooler and took it. I paid around 41,500 won downstairs in the lobby. Then, she went to church and I went home.

I had been planning on pulling a runner from Wonderland after the March 5th payday because my gas had been turned off for the second time during my contract, among other issues with this school. The one night stand happened on Friday, March 2nd. I had to postpone my midnight runner because of this issue with this girl, but I was still wanting to leave after the April payday, so I e-mailed her with a request to take a pregnancy test on the weekend of March 23rd and to let me know the result. This is a cut and paste of what she wrote back:

that day was just looks like handsome guy to me. so i wanna be a friends with u.
maybe there is more? boyfriend? but we cant be a more meet. because language, age, other think.
i was just nice to meet u, but u was full of pragnancy anxieties.
u know??

On April 9th, an Australian co-worker didn't show up for work, having pulled a midnight runner. I pulled one two days later on election day.

For all I know, she could be the girl in that MBC piece saying a guy knocked her up and left her. Laughing

comm

Joined: 22 Jun 2010

Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:29 pm Post subject:

EZE wrote:

On April 9th, an Australian co-worker didn't show up for work, having pulled a midnight runner. I pulled one two days later on election day.

For all I know, she could be the girl in that MBC piece saying a guy knocked her up and left her. Laughing

And the AIDs, dont forget the AIDs...

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