Korean Job Discussion Forums

[cj1976]

I am working in a college in Seoul and we have been given 'guidelines' on how to allocate grades. When I say 'guidelines' I mean 'strict instructions' that say that grades must be spread out as such:

A+ to A: 30% maximum
A+ to B: 80%
C+ and below 20%

On giving the grades, one of my classes had too many people with A and not enough with B or C. I have been ordered to knock students scores down to fit within the prescribed grade system. I can't help feeling this is wrong and I am doing some of the students a huge disservice. I honestly believe that those with the As deserved them. Anyway, just feel like ranting a bit because I am having a hard time with this. It feels unethical to me.

[busanmum]

We have a similar grade distribution at our school and it can be terribly frustrating, especially when you have a class of excellent students.

It might make you feel better to realize, though, that your students know about the grade distribution system and that it sometimes can be "unfair" (ie: getting a 93% in a class that has a surplus of excellent English students resulting in a B+ rather than the deserved A). So, while it is frustrating and disappointing to you and the students, they get it.

One tip that I've learned over 12 years of university teaching in Korea is that you really need to make your exams/testing/evaluation difficult, especially in your better classes. This way, at the end of the semester, I can bump people up to an A, rather than knock people down to a B.

[transmogrifier]

I have to do that at my university. It's called the relative grading system.

I don't mind it, because it prevents the devaluation of A and A+ grades, and removes the temptation for lazy professors to just give the class all As. It also means that there is more comparative value when looking at a transcript - an A will always mean they were at least in the top 3rd of the class, for example.

In very small classes (around 10), the relative grading system doesn't apply, which makes sense. Also, our university has started an Advanced Freshman English programme that is also exempt from relative grading, simply because it groups all the students with highest English ability together in the first place. Again, fair enough.

So, in answer to your question, I don't think it is unethical at all. The students accept it and live with it, and I would too, if I was in their position.

[12ax7]

[cj1976]

Maybe it's not unethical but something feels a bit wrong to me. One class in particular has been outstanding and they have shown a good understanding of the concepts discussed in the classroom. There are honestly more than 30% who truly deserve an A. They are that good.
The other classes, the spread is a bit thinner, so it hasn't been too difficult for me.

[northway]

[jvalmer]

Isn't the curve standard in all universities? I graduated in 2001 and in most Science and Engineering programs the curve was still in full effect. High demand programs generally use the curve to weed out students the first 2 years.

[tideout]

It's only unethical if learning is the primary focus.

[Weigookin74]

Sounds unethical and unfair, but it's the way it is here. Deal with it or move on. However, I will say one thing. These kids are excellent crammers and can memorize very easily in a way I never could. So a B prob is not really a B. It is all about testing here, very little term papers, or group projects or anything else.

[transmogrifier]

[hogwonguy1979]

yeah it stinks but its the way they try and avoid grade inflation, the students understand. I just had a student who I had to give a C+ to despite making an 82 in the class. Person emailed me and I told him he was 17th in a class of 21 and I only the top 15 could get an A or B. Person thanked me and understood. I tell them at the beginning of the semester they will be ranked by final grade and that determines where the A's and B's fall

My univ we also have a floor where we have to give a minimum # of A's and B's to. At my school the floor is 20% have to get A's and 30% have to get B's. In a low level class thats a pain I had students making a 60 who got B's.

We also have advanced classes where there is no curve and we get another problem since we can give unlimited high grades the students expect to get A's and B's and when they dont they gripe. I make sure they know at the beginning and end of the semester I will only give the grade they earn. If you are upfront about everything its not a problem

[Troglodyte]

[cj1976]

[nathanrutledge]

Everything in life naturally falls onto a bell curve. The students should all fall onto a curve naturally. The only thing I would like is that I could curve ALL my students, not just individual classes. I've got one class where the students just dominated - perfect attendance across the board, awesome homework, etc. About half the class should have earned an A. On the other hand, I have a class where I COULD have given 8 A's and I only gave 2.

If it's becoming a problem where you are giving people 90's and the earn a C, you should probably adjust your grading scheme.

[hogwonguy1979]

got a friend at another univ where they have max %'s for grades and now they are being told not to give the max amount to reduce "grade inflation" problem is now they have a huge problem with students griping more than usual