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cj1976
Joined: 26 Oct 2005
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 Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 3:53 am Post subject: |
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| hogwonguy1979 wrote: |
| got a friend at another univ where they have max %'s for grades and now they are being told not to give the max amount to reduce "grade inflation" problem is now they have a huge problem with students griping more than usual |
I predict some major student complaints in the following few weeks. I could handle that if it wasn't for the fact that my continual employment at the uni rests on student evaluations. I honestly don't know if the students have the maturity to accept a C that graciously after a few semesters of easy As and Bs.. |
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hogwonguy1979
Joined: 22 Dec 2003
Location: the racoon den
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| Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 4:06 am Post subject: |
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| cj1976 wrote: |
| hogwonguy1979 wrote: |
| got a friend at another univ where they have max %'s for grades and now they are being told not to give the max amount to reduce "grade inflation" problem is now they have a huge problem with students griping more than usual |
I predict some major student complaints in the following few weeks. I could handle that if it wasn't for the fact that my continual employment at the uni rests on student evaluations. I honestly don't know if the students have the maturity to accept a C that graciously after a few semesters of easy As and Bs.. |
my friends univ bitch period is next week i think, at least at my univ they were able to see grades as soon as i posted them on the website 2 weeks ago and they had until weds to gripe
what i hate about univ teaching having our future employment decided by a bunch of 18 year old kids who will pitch a fit if you give them a C
call me old-fashioned but when i was in college we would never challenge a grade we got nor do i think our teacher's future employment was based on the evals we gave them. wish korean univs would do the same |
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12ax7
Joined: 07 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 4:21 am Post subject: |
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| hogwonguy1979 wrote: |
| cj1976 wrote: |
| hogwonguy1979 wrote: |
| got a friend at another univ where they have max %'s for grades and now they are being told not to give the max amount to reduce "grade inflation" problem is now they have a huge problem with students griping more than usual |
I predict some major student complaints in the following few weeks. I could handle that if it wasn't for the fact that my continual employment at the uni rests on student evaluations. I honestly don't know if the students have the maturity to accept a C that graciously after a few semesters of easy As and Bs.. |
my friends univ bitch period is next week i think, at least at my univ they were able to see grades as soon as i posted them on the website 2 weeks ago and they had until weds to gripe
what i hate about univ teaching having our future employment decided by a bunch of 18 year old kids who will pitch a fit if you give them a C
call me old-fashioned but when i was in college we would never challenge a grade we got nor do i think our teacher's future employment was based on the evals we gave them. wish korean univs would do the same |
The teacher evaluations were for the teachers's eyes only, and still are as far as I know. |
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cj1976
Joined: 26 Oct 2005
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| Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 5:05 am Post subject: |
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What makes it worse is that in response to the new guidelines, perhaps the logical thing to do is increase the difficulty of the syllabus, thus reducing the proportion of high scores.
When I was at the interview for the job, prior to the guidelines being issued, it was strongly suggested that I don't make the classes too difficult because the students are less academically inclined (I work at a 2 years college). Now, it seems as if that advice has come round to bite me in the arse. |
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tideout
Joined: 12 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 5:21 am Post subject: |
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| Education sparkling! |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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| cj1976 wrote: |
| hogwonguy1979 wrote: |
| got a friend at another univ where they have max %'s for grades and now they are being told not to give the max amount to reduce "grade inflation" problem is now they have a huge problem with students griping more than usual |
I predict some major student complaints in the following few weeks. I could handle that if it wasn't for the fact that my continual employment at the uni rests on student evaluations. I honestly don't know if the students have the maturity to accept a C that graciously after a few semesters of easy As and Bs.. |
Isn't it set up so they have to do the evaluation before they see their grades? |
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IamBabo
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 5:36 pm Post subject: Grades |
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Hey atwood,
That's the why the eval system is at my school... |
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cj1976
Joined: 26 Oct 2005
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| Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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| atwood wrote: |
| cj1976 wrote: |
| hogwonguy1979 wrote: |
| got a friend at another univ where they have max %'s for grades and now they are being told not to give the max amount to reduce "grade inflation" problem is now they have a huge problem with students griping more than usual |
I predict some major student complaints in the following few weeks. I could handle that if it wasn't for the fact that my continual employment at the uni rests on student evaluations. I honestly don't know if the students have the maturity to accept a C that graciously after a few semesters of easy As and Bs.. |
Isn't it set up so they have to do the evaluation before they see their grades? |
I think they do an evaluation at the end of each semester before they see the grades. They have already done one this semester, so it's too late to bitch about it but I wonder if those that get the Cs this time will remember it the next time around. |
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cdninkorea
Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 7:45 am Post subject: |
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| My university has a policy that 40% of the class at most can get a grade of B+ or above (aside from that, it's up to my discretion). This is usually not a problem, as in most classes there are only a handful of exceptional students. But it is sometimes, and it hurts me to give great students (participated well, worked hard on assignments, good exam scores, etc.) a B when I want to give them an A minus. |
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liveinkorea316
Joined: 20 Aug 2010
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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| 12ax7 wrote: |
| transmogrifier wrote: |
I have to do that at my university. It's called the relative grading system.
I don't mind it, because it prevents the devaluation of A and A+ grades, and removes the temptation for lazy professors to just give the class all As. It also means that there is more comparative value when looking at a transcript - an A will always mean they were at least in the top 3rd of the class, for example.
In very small classes (around 10), the relative grading system doesn't apply, which makes sense. Also, our university has started an Advanced Freshman English programme that is also exempt from relative grading, simply because it groups all the students with highest English ability together in the first place. Again, fair enough.
So, in answer to your question, I don't think it is unethical at all. The students accept it and live with it, and I would too, if I was in their position. |
I would disagree since there is also a minimum quota of As. |
Not necessarily. He didn't say that. I mean he said it was 30% MAXIMUM A's didn't he?
At my uni we have a similar system but there is no minimum amount of A's we have to give. Our maximums are:
30% A
60% B or higher
Those are the only restrictions. Read another way it means 40% must get a C+ or below and it is theoretically possible for the whole class to get C or below because the restrictions are only maximums not minimums.
They are to prevent grade inflation and to increase the ranking of the university. I support them. |
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Juregen
Joined: 30 May 2006
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| Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 9:25 pm Post subject: Re: MOE college grading guidelines: Unethical or not? |
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| cj1976 wrote: |
I am working in a college in Seoul and we have been given 'guidelines' on how to allocate grades. When I say 'guidelines' I mean 'strict instructions' that say that grades must be spread out as such:
A+ to A: 30% maximum
A+ to B: 80%
C+ and below 20%
On giving the grades, one of my classes had too many people with A and not enough with B or C. I have been ordered to knock students scores down to fit within the prescribed grade system. I can't help feeling this is wrong and I am doing some of the students a huge disservice. I honestly believe that those with the As deserved them. Anyway, just feel like ranting a bit because I am having a hard time with this. It feels unethical to me. |
Why is it wrong? Or do you consider your POV to be absolute? |
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cj1976
Joined: 26 Oct 2005
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| Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 5:35 am Post subject: Re: MOE college grading guidelines: Unethical or not? |
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| Juregen wrote: |
| cj1976 wrote: |
I am working in a college in Seoul and we have been given 'guidelines' on how to allocate grades. When I say 'guidelines' I mean 'strict instructions' that say that grades must be spread out as such:
A+ to A: 30% maximum
A+ to B: 80%
C+ and below 20%
On giving the grades, one of my classes had too many people with A and not enough with B or C. I have been ordered to knock students scores down to fit within the prescribed grade system. I can't help feeling this is wrong and I am doing some of the students a huge disservice. I honestly believe that those with the As deserved them. Anyway, just feel like ranting a bit because I am having a hard time with this. It feels unethical to me. |
Why is it wrong? Or do you consider your POV to be absolute? |
Of course not, but the MOE clearly think their POV is. Maybe I am an idealist but I think education and learning can not be so predictable as to allocate a set number of As or Cs. People should get what they deserve - whether it is an A+ or an F.
Anyways, the moaning from students has started. The scores were released today and I have had 6 students complaining about their B+. Oh, the joy. |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 4:03 pm Post subject: Re: MOE college grading guidelines: Unethical or not? |
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| cj1976 wrote: |
| Juregen wrote: |
| cj1976 wrote: |
I am working in a college in Seoul and we have been given 'guidelines' on how to allocate grades. When I say 'guidelines' I mean 'strict instructions' that say that grades must be spread out as such:
A+ to A: 30% maximum
A+ to B: 80%
C+ and below 20%
On giving the grades, one of my classes had too many people with A and not enough with B or C. I have been ordered to knock students scores down to fit within the prescribed grade system. I can't help feeling this is wrong and I am doing some of the students a huge disservice. I honestly believe that those with the As deserved them. Anyway, just feel like ranting a bit because I am having a hard time with this. It feels unethical to me. |
Why is it wrong? Or do you consider your POV to be absolute? |
Of course not, but the MOE clearly think their POV is. Maybe I am an idealist but I think education and learning can not be so predictable as to allocate a set number of As or Cs. People should get what they deserve - whether it is an A+ or an F.
Anyways, the moaning from students has started. The scores were released today and I have had 6 students complaining about their B+. Oh, the joy. |
Just explain it to them. They know all about relative grading, and they'll understand.
"A huge disservice" seems a bit overwrought. |
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liveinkorea316
Joined: 20 Aug 2010
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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So when they graduate uni and all apply for jobs at SAMSUNG but only 1 out of 1,000 gets the job that is grossly unfair and you say they should all have gotten the job?
Life is not fair. Those students knew from the outset that their grade reflects not only how well they studied but their position in the class.
Welcome to the competition that is life. It's good for those students. |
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transmogrifier
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
Location: Seoul, South Korea
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| Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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| I would also argue that, if at the end of the course, you have the majority of students getting scores that would get them an A, then your method of assessment is flawed. |
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