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Can you get fired...
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ms7878



Joined: 04 Jul 2012

PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 7:41 am    Post subject: Can you get fired... Reply with quote

Can you get fired in Korea if someone suspects of or perceives you being gay? Have you heard of this happening? My girlfriend and I are moving to Korea with jobs in schools that are staffed by folks that are extremely religious and conservative. I know what the general feeling is about homosexuality in Korea (not acceptable), and have no plans to flaunt, advertise, or address my personal life, nor do I want to rock anyones boat, including mine!
However, if someone sees my girfriend and I and puts two and two together, could that cause problems at the job? I know that there are no hard and fast rules for these things, but would appreciate some perspective or experience on this issue.
thanks!
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mike in brasil



Joined: 09 Jun 2003

PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 10:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lesbians go under the radar quite easily here.

It seems homosexuality is something that Koreans only apply to men.
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amnsg2



Joined: 15 Aug 2010
Location: Gumi

PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You may well get a boss who wouldn't think twice about firing you for that reason. It really depends on what your co workers are like, but I don't think it should be too much of a problem if you go in with that attitude. I've never heard an opinion on being gay from a Korean other than 'teacher, he like gay!' from kids or mild surprise and random stereotypes from adults. I've heard that Koreans have really conservative opinions and I'm sure there are some really hardcore anti gay people around, but I've never seen them myself.

Things spread so fast around my school, and when I tell someone something one day it gets told back to me by someone different the next. I think there's a pamphlet about my comings and goings being passed around, tbh so I doubt you'll keep it quiet for long if you're in a small area, but try and politely brush off questions until you've tested the water.
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sulperman



Joined: 14 Oct 2008

PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No one will ever notice unless you tell them. Don't mention it to the kids, and don't actually have sex in front of your boss, and you will be fine. It will never, ever come up, unless you teach middle school or high school kids, and one might occasionally ask if you know any gay people. Say yes, there's nothing wrong with it, and move on.

I know one guy who was openly gay and told people at work- I thought is was extremely unwise, but nothing happened and nobody cared, so what do I know.
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laynamarya



Joined: 01 Jan 2010
Location: Gwangjin-gu

PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Korean platonic female friends hold hands, link arms, etc, VERY frequently, so I doubt anyone will pick up on anything unless you are kissing in public. Don't worry about it too much.
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luckylady



Joined: 30 Jan 2012
Location: u.s. of occupied territories

PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Can you get fired... Reply with quote

ms7878 wrote:
My girlfriend and I are moving to Korea with jobs in schools that are staffed by folks that are extremely religious and conservative.


all bets are off on being under the radar safe in this situation.

Korean right-wing conservatives are no different, possibly even worse, than Western ones. take note that after years of parents leaving Korea for good, blaming the education system, right wing nutjobs just did a double whammy on the entire system with this gem:

http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/06/12/south-korean-textbooks-embrace-creationism/

then there's this gem from a teacher actually working in a religious based school - hers worked out (for now) but gives you an indication of how things can go south faster than you can spit.

http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=221556

why take chances on ruining what could be a perfectly marvelous time otherwise? basically, if you would not consider taking a job with the same sort of religous conservatism back home (wherever that might be) why would you do it anywhere else?

don't leave your common sense at home when you need it the most. Shocked
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Emark



Joined: 10 May 2007
Location: duh, Korea?

PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

laynamarya wrote:
Korean platonic female friends hold hands, link arms, etc, VERY frequently, so I doubt anyone will pick up on anything unless you are kissing in public. Don't worry about it too much.
Korean boys and men will do the same, especially when drunk. Who knows what happens next ... cultural secret?
Maybe it's best to stay in the closet here. Maybe it doesn't matter. There are many Korean dramas (soaps, tv shows) that portrayed cross gender / gender neutral people in a natural / normal light. "Coffee Prince" is the most popular and there is one currently on called "You are Lucky" (something like that). You will see comedy shows with men in women's clothes and the like.

I think as long as you never promote homosexuality here YOU will never be held in negative light. I don't think Korea needs any assistance to discovering homosexuality, they seem to be on that road of bliss already.
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soomin



Joined: 18 Jun 2009
Location: Daegu

PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess it depends on the boss. When I first came over, I came with one of my female friends and we wanted to work at the same school. When we arrived they put us in the same house and were surprised when we reminded them that we wanted single apartments (especially since the branches of our school were a 20 minute bus ride apart). Later on, when I asked one of my coworkers about it, she told me "Oh, they just assumed you were a gay couple, and that you didn't really want single apartments because you were in a fight, but that you would eventually want to live together again" @.@; They were all pretty nonchalant about it, but I do wonder what they whispered about behind my back...
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Benjamino



Joined: 21 Apr 2012
Location: Jinju

PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 4:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Can you get fired... Reply with quote

luckylady wrote:
ms7878 wrote:
My girlfriend and I are moving to Korea with jobs in schools that are staffed by folks that are extremely religious and conservative.


all bets are off on being under the radar safe in this situation.

Korean right-wing conservatives are no different, possibly even worse, than Western ones. take note that after years of parents leaving Korea for good, blaming the education system, right wing nutjobs just did a double whammy on the entire system with this gem:

http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/06/12/south-korean-textbooks-embrace-creationism/

then there's this gem from a teacher actually working in a religious based school - hers worked out (for now) but gives you an indication of how things can go south faster than you can spit.

http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=221556

why take chances on ruining what could be a perfectly marvelous time otherwise? basically, if you would not consider taking a job with the same sort of religous conservatism back home (wherever that might be) why would you do it anywhere else?

don't leave your common sense at home when you need it the most. Shocked


'Korean right-wing conservatives are no different, possibly even worse, than Western ones'

As soon as I read that I stopped reading the post. I'm a Conservative and have no interest in another's private life at all. If somebody is gay that's their business not mine or anybody else's.

These sweeping generalizations don't do you any favours whatsoever. The fact that you label people so easily contradicts the sentiments you portray.
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northway



Joined: 05 Jul 2010

PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 5:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Can you get fired... Reply with quote

Benjamino wrote:
luckylady wrote:
ms7878 wrote:
My girlfriend and I are moving to Korea with jobs in schools that are staffed by folks that are extremely religious and conservative.


all bets are off on being under the radar safe in this situation.

Korean right-wing conservatives are no different, possibly even worse, than Western ones. take note that after years of parents leaving Korea for good, blaming the education system, right wing nutjobs just did a double whammy on the entire system with this gem:

http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/06/12/south-korean-textbooks-embrace-creationism/

then there's this gem from a teacher actually working in a religious based school - hers worked out (for now) but gives you an indication of how things can go south faster than you can spit.

http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=221556

why take chances on ruining what could be a perfectly marvelous time otherwise? basically, if you would not consider taking a job with the same sort of religous conservatism back home (wherever that might be) why would you do it anywhere else?

don't leave your common sense at home when you need it the most. Shocked


'Korean right-wing conservatives are no different, possibly even worse, than Western ones'

As soon as I read that I stopped reading the post. I'm a Conservative and have no interest in another's private life at all. If somebody is gay that's their business not mine or anybody else's.

These sweeping generalizations don't do you any favours whatsoever. The fact that you label people so easily contradicts the sentiments you portray.


Your use of the commonwealth u suggests that you're not in the group being referenced. In this case, Western basically means American, I assume.

Back on topic though: it really depends on the school. I worked with a couple gay guys and our boss invited one of their boyfriends to our staff dinner and was totally cool about it. Those two guys eventually ended up dating and our managers treated it the same way they would have treated any other work relationship: no big deal so long as it never becomes an issue at work. The only coworker who ever had any issue with their sexuality was a girl from Louisiana, and the Korean staff absolutely understood where we were. Liming from when we eventually stopped socializing with her due to her homophobia. Many of these individuals were churchgoing Christians. That said, not every workplace is going to be that welcoming, so you'd be best off keeping it on the downlow in the short term.
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luckylady



Joined: 30 Jan 2012
Location: u.s. of occupied territories

PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 9:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Can you get fired... Reply with quote

Benjamino wrote:
luckylady wrote:
ms7878 wrote:
My girlfriend and I are moving to Korea with jobs in schools that are staffed by folks that are extremely religious and conservative.


all bets are off on being under the radar safe in this situation.

Korean right-wing conservatives are no different, possibly even worse, than Western ones. take note that after years of parents leaving Korea for good, blaming the education system, right wing nutjobs just did a double whammy on the entire system with this gem:

http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/06/12/south-korean-textbooks-embrace-creationism/

then there's this gem from a teacher actually working in a religious based school - hers worked out (for now) but gives you an indication of how things can go south faster than you can spit.

http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=221556

why take chances on ruining what could be a perfectly marvelous time otherwise? basically, if you would not consider taking a job with the same sort of religous conservatism back home (wherever that might be) why would you do it anywhere else?

don't leave your common sense at home when you need it the most. Shocked


'Korean right-wing conservatives are no different, possibly even worse, than Western ones'

As soon as I read that I stopped reading the post. I'm a Conservative and have no interest in another's private life at all. If somebody is gay that's their business not mine or anybody else's.

These sweeping generalizations don't do you any favours whatsoever. The fact that you label people so easily contradicts the sentiments you portray.


oh please. stop pretending to be insulted.

fyi, I'm not the one that labels conservatives - they do it themselves. one example is the DOMA (defense of marriage act) which tries to define who a person can marry, regardless of that person's personal choice.

funny how you "stopped reading the post" but felt compelled to respond anyway. whatever.
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Benjamino



Joined: 21 Apr 2012
Location: Jinju

PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have no idea what 'Doma' as I'm British and believe it or not American laws do not apply outside your country's borders.


However you then move onto champion a persons personal choice. Does this stretch to respecting another's democratic right to vote or support a political party of choice? or are all Conservatives intrinsically evil as you've insinuated and as yet failed to clear up?
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YTMND



Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!

PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
believe it or not American laws do not apply outside your country's borders.


What is American about being against gay marriage? I would think gravity and physics are universal, and so are the issues.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/poll/2012/may/06/gay-marriage-government-conservatives

Quote:
are all Conservatives intrinsically evil as you've insinuated and as yet failed to clear up


I would clearly say yes, in the sense there is nothing really a conservative or non-conservative can do that is so uniquely characterized by their affiliation with a group.

Can you tell me specifically one issue that conservatives are split on and non-conservatives would also be split on? In that case, why have those labels? You would just be one group with one stance on an issue and another group with another stance.

If you aren't going to base "conservatism" on one specific ideology, maybe it's time to say goodbye to the wrapper "conservatives" are masking themselves behind. This can be said also of liberals, socialists, etc...

We are individuals first.
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PaperTiger



Joined: 31 May 2005
Location: Ulaanbataar

PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

People don't seem to be clued into gays here...don't mistake their lack of acknowledgement or ignorance for tolerance. I've worked with several gay co-workers in the past and as far I know, if anyone knew about it, it never became an issue. Should you ever tell someone you're not sure you can trust or discuss such issues at work ever? Nah. They're in for a rude awakening when they discover how fervently they've supported the gay community by pumping so much money into musicals (yes, that old chestnut, but nonetheless true).

A co-worker of mine had her face plastered all over a magazine covering a gay-pride march that was held in Korea and no one said boo about it.

Suffice to say, you're more likely to get outed and fired for being an atheist.
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Skippy



Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Location: Daejeon

PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 5:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

General advice for gay Expats is "keep you mouth shut" and your "private life private".

Can you get fired for being gay? Legally probably no, realistically, yes. If the religious school finds out then expect hassles. They will find a valid reason to terminate contract. Or just proceed to make your life hell. Unless you have a lawyer on stand-bye and/or lots of money fighting it out is not worth it.

I have know gay people who work here, and they pretty much do as above. The rest of their life goes fine. No real problems with the day to day. Still if you get to up-front things can go nasty. Knew one guy on a Friday night at a local watering hole with a mix of expats and Koreans commented on his sexuality. One of the Korean men proceed to attack him!

The simple fact is your rights here in Korea can be summed up as thus. Anything you do that pisses off a Korean will be used against you. You piss of the wrong person or group, they can make life difficult for you.
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