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Korean Job Discussion Forums "The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
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expattarheel
Joined: 25 Jun 2008 Location: Louisville, KY
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Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 6:26 am Post subject: |
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from my experience (worked 2 hagwon gigs, my bf worked 1 hagwon, one public school), we just stayed professionally closeted (to administrators, not our native N.A./english coworkers) and, forgive the dramatic intonation of what follows, lived 2 separate lives - work and private life.
that being said, my director at my 2nd hagwon met my bf, he did some substitute teaching at our school (he's F4), and she really liked him. She even bumped me up to couple housing after my 2nd year as a contract renewal sweetener. i wouldn't go so far as to say she's the norm, though. She got her masters in the States and lived in the nyc metro area for a couple years before returning to korea, so she really prided herself on being progressive and international/super-modern, so she was 100% fine with me being gay personally. i only put that there as an example of there being supportive koreans, not necessarily as the rule.
that being said, i felt a significant pressure (maybe it was my weakness for not pushing the issue) to just play along and not rock the boat with all the "teacher--you marry?" questions. i didnt feel like it was my place to come in and work human rights issues into lessons about adjectives, so i just played along and pretended, albeit evasively and winkingly, to be straight. i taught kindy - 5th grade, fwiw, can't say what i'd have done with HS students.
my boss never said "don't tell the students!" but i think after a few years in korea, i learned that anything you give moms ammo to bitch about, they're going to come back and make your life miserable, so why bother? some people may judge me for passing on an opportunity for a teachable moment, but gays learn self-preservation at a young age, so that was the instinct that kicked in for me. my way of thriving in korea was just to keep up a facade when i needed to, and only really be myself around my friends. you may luck out and have super awesome progressive korean bosses and staff, but i'd err on the side of caution, at least in the beginning. the christians in korea don't play around; they don't even love the sinner, much less the sin, lol (80s era Jesse Helms comes to mind).
my bf is korean-american, so he would probably tell you his experience was much more stifling culturally than mine was, just bc the older ladies at his school were constantly on him to meet girls/nieces/daughters of friends and he had to always make some kind of excuse why he didn't want to date them. i daresay foreigners won't be subjected to the same experience.
one piece of advice to the OP: korea will affect you and your relationship. my bf and i never held hands in public (even on homo hill), and our modest PDA from before korea (arm around him at the movies, etc) was, by the end, curtailed. korea had a quiet stifling affect on us, and we're still (2 years later after returning home) not back to public affirmations of our relationship like we were before we left for korea. just feel like that's something worth watching out for. |
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Benjamino
Joined: 21 Apr 2012 Location: Jinju
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Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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| YTMND wrote: |
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| believe it or not American laws do not apply outside your country's borders. |
What is American about being against gay marriage? I would think gravity and physics are universal, and so are the issues.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/poll/2012/may/06/gay-marriage-government-conservatives
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| are all Conservatives intrinsically evil as you've insinuated and as yet failed to clear up |
I would clearly say yes, in the sense there is nothing really a conservative or non-conservative can do that is so uniquely characterized by their affiliation with a group.
Can you tell me specifically one issue that conservatives are split on and non-conservatives would also be split on? In that case, why have those labels? You would just be one group with one stance on an issue and another group with another stance.
If you aren't going to base "conservatism" on one specific ideology, maybe it's time to say goodbye to the wrapper "conservatives" are masking themselves behind. This can be said also of liberals, socialists, etc...
We are individuals first. |
and that is the whole point of bringing this up in the first place. I'm not the one throwing around wild insinuations on this thread.
I also am lost on you point about Americans being against gay marriage. I didn't say anything of the sort now did I?
I pointed out that I didn't know what 'Doma' was ( I do now because I looked it up) and then I pointed out that it's an American law so it doesn't cover the country of my Birth. Now please tell me where I said America is against gay marriage. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Location: Retired
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Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Skippy wrote: |
!
The simple fact is your rights here in Korea can be summed up as thus. Anything you do that pisses off a Korean will be used against you. . |
Probably have a list a mile long of P.O 'ed Koreans in my case then.
Still here.
Still working.
Still enjoying my life here.
You have a lot more rights than that. Learn them and use them. |
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ms7878
Joined: 04 Jul 2012
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Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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thanks for your personal insights. We're not huge on public displays of affection anyway but I do think it will be an adjustment carrying on our relationship in Korea.
| expattarheel wrote: |
from my experience (worked 2 hagwon gigs, my bf worked 1 hagwon, one public school), we just stayed professionally closeted (to administrators, not our native N.A./english coworkers) and, forgive the dramatic intonation of what follows, lived 2 separate lives - work and private life.
that being said, my director at my 2nd hagwon met my bf, he did some substitute teaching at our school (he's F4), and she really liked him. She even bumped me up to couple housing after my 2nd year as a contract renewal sweetener. i wouldn't go so far as to say she's the norm, though. She got her masters in the States and lived in the nyc metro area for a couple years before returning to korea, so she really prided herself on being progressive and international/super-modern, so she was 100% fine with me being gay personally. i only put that there as an example of there being supportive koreans, not necessarily as the rule.
that being said, i felt a significant pressure (maybe it was my weakness for not pushing the issue) to just play along and not rock the boat with all the "teacher--you marry?" questions. i didnt feel like it was my place to come in and work human rights issues into lessons about adjectives, so i just played along and pretended, albeit evasively and winkingly, to be straight. i taught kindy - 5th grade, fwiw, can't say what i'd have done with HS students.
my boss never said "don't tell the students!" but i think after a few years in korea, i learned that anything you give moms ammo to bitch about, they're going to come back and make your life miserable, so why bother? some people may judge me for passing on an opportunity for a teachable moment, but gays learn self-preservation at a young age, so that was the instinct that kicked in for me. my way of thriving in korea was just to keep up a facade when i needed to, and only really be myself around my friends. you may luck out and have super awesome progressive korean bosses and staff, but i'd err on the side of caution, at least in the beginning. the christians in korea don't play around; they don't even love the sinner, much less the sin, lol (80s era Jesse Helms comes to mind).
my bf is korean-american, so he would probably tell you his experience was much more stifling culturally than mine was, just bc the older ladies at his school were constantly on him to meet girls/nieces/daughters of friends and he had to always make some kind of excuse why he didn't want to date them. i daresay foreigners won't be subjected to the same experience.
one piece of advice to the OP: korea will affect you and your relationship. my bf and i never held hands in public (even on homo hill), and our modest PDA from before korea (arm around him at the movies, etc) was, by the end, curtailed. korea had a quiet stifling affect on us, and we're still (2 years later after returning home) not back to public affirmations of our relationship like we were before we left for korea. just feel like that's something worth watching out for. |
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Skippy

Joined: 18 Jan 2003 Location: Daejeon
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Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Skippy wrote: |
!
The simple fact is your rights here in Korea can be summed up as thus. Anything you do that pisses off a Korean will be used against you. . |
Probably have a list a mile long of P.O 'ed Koreans in my case then.
Still here.
Still working.
Still enjoying my life here.
You have a lot more rights than that. Learn them and use them. |
Your right generally. Most people can get away with things. You still hear the tales of a foreigners getting hassles or leaving because something they did most would think safe.
Putting on a play and getting hassles because of the content.
Writing a blog and getting a sleazy journalist on your case.
Listening to your boss and doing that work, that proves to be illegal.
Trying to help and volunteer with kids or some other activity, then getting pointed out for "WORKING".
Having a get together with some friends and having the police show up at because neighbors complained of the NOISE!. This at 10:00pm on a Saturday. Never mind the neighbors fight and cause more noise at 2:00am every second day.
Going to a club, that has a sexy theme and getting called out as a debauched foreigner.
Put your hand on your wife's rear in subway. Then getting assaulted for it. People who assaulted you get off.
Take pictures of models you hired and then have Korean bum proceed to hassle you. Get hauled into police station even after having models and tell in Koreaning the situation.
Get into the wrong argument and push somebody. A couple million won in blood money for a push for someone who started it seems fair.
Most people do not even understand their basic rights. Hell I meet people who do not even know what their visa entails with the basics of job rights. |
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YTMND
Joined: 16 Jan 2012 Location: You're the man now dog!!
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Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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| I also am lost on you point about Americans being against gay marriage. I didn't say anything of the sort now did I? |
Then why point out DOMA is American law, when Britons do the same or worse by simply ignoring gay rights as referenced in the link?
You missed my point if you think I was only referencing Americans being against gay marriage.
There are also Britons against it, and it doesn't matter if there is DOMA or a British version of DOMA. The issue of being against gay marriage is the same on either side of the pond/fence.
So, which stance are you going to take because so far you are arguing both.
1) If your view is that it is only American law, and you are not subject to American law, then you are turning a blind eye to the same prejudice in your country.
2) If it is an issue, free from borders, it doesn't matter if we address DOMA or British politicians ignoring gay rights. The end result is still the same, lack of acceptance for people due to their sexual orientation.
That is an issue we don't need to label American law. I suggest if you aren't ready to defend your actions, you lay off the America bashing.
If you want a more linguistic analysis of this, you used "American" to modify law. So, I questioned the modifier in your sentence. If you didn't mean it, then in linguistic robotic fashion, remove "American" from your posts.
If I say I want to drink out of a coffee cup, no it doesn't mean I want to drink coffee, but it sure does suggest coffee among other things is what would go in it.
So, again, choose one or the other. Is it only American law and you are ignoring your country or is it an issue we both need to deal with regardless where the "crime" was committed?
Think of it also like the metric system vs. how US measures things. If an American cites miles, do you exempt yourself from understanding any similarity because you would use kilometers instead? Do you ignore that also because it is spelled different? Only if we talk to you in "kilometres" will you listen and put a round peg in a round hole? |
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isitts
Joined: 25 Dec 2008 Location: Korea
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Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Skippy wrote: |
| General advice for gay Expats is "keep you mouth shut" and your "private life private". |
That's good advice for anyone. I'm not gay and I don't tell them anything about my personal life. This place is very family values oriented. Everyone is supposed to be married in their early 20s and have children. If you don't fit that model or you aren't headed towards it, best to keep them out of the loop. |
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