Korean Job Discussion Forums :: View topic

Speak Korean Now!

Teach English Abroad and Get Paid to see the World!

Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"

FAQ

Memberlist

Usergroups

Profile

edit
Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4 Next

Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> General Discussion Forum

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author

Message

Kimchifart

Joined: 15 Sep 2010

Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 8:06 am Post subject:

Steelrails wrote:

Kimchifart wrote:

Answer this: (don't duck it, answer it please) What do you think would happen to Korean government policy if English teachers suddenly started blowing themselves up on buses and subways here?

English Teachers aren't a race. There are Korean English teachers. Kyopo English Teachers. Black English Teachers. White English teachers. Filipino English Teachers.

So, yes I'm sorry, but I WILL have to dodge your question because 'English Teachers' is not a race. Foreigners in different professions have different requirements. Foreign business workers are treated differently than English teachers even though they may be of the same race and nationality.

So in response to your question, I really don't know. I'd assume they'd continue to have English Teachers and subcontract their vetting to the FBI and probably hire some Mossad types to patrol their airports. English education wouldn't go away. English Teachers are not a race. You'd probably see metal detectors at all subways and more scanning at ICN.

Quote:

You're creating a straw man argument every time you reply to me.

Says the guy who just asked me about English teachers bombing subways....

Quote:

e.g. one foreigner committing one crime - heck not even committing it in Korea - results in multiple changes to the visa system for all immigrants.

Really? Show me where that happened and ALL immigrants had a change in their visa requirements. That means all A-Z, 1-10.

You want racist, ethnocentric, and bigoted? How about the idea that ALL foreigners in Korea are NETs?, and based upon what you hint at, white NETs.

My point with the question that you very notably and predictably refused to answer is that the answer is there would likely be a crackdown like no other. You used the example of Pakistani immigrants as a relative argument, so I was discussing it on your terms. I knew you wouldn't answer this.

I thought we were talking about NETs and how did you infer I meant solely white people? I can only argue with stuff I've said or implied, not stuff you've decided to imagine I've said or implied. This is an English teaching forum! Every discussion has its frame of reference.

I'm talking about the E2 visa crackdown. As far as I'm aware this didn't apply to a bunch of other visas and the controvery was solely aimed at English teachers which is why I talked about NETs and which is why you should apologise for calling me a bigot:

Source: http://www.scribd.com/doc/15768998/Nhrck-Report-2

Steelrails

Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:15 pm Post subject:

Quote:

My point with the question that you very notably and predictably refused to answer is that the answer is there would likely be a crackdown like no other.

Really? They certainly might step up security, but they wouldn't STOP having English education, so they'd need us. And because English speakers come in all manner of colors, they couldn't single out any race in particular. What would they do? Maybe stop the E-2 visa and rely solely on contracted US military personnel or people with DOD clearance.

They'd certainly go around and start vetting us, however since we are on short-term visas and NOT Korean citizens (unlike the Pakistanis), we'd likely go through different procedures.

Quote:

I'm talking about the E2 visa crackdown. As far as I'm aware this didn't apply to a bunch of other visas and the controvery was solely aimed at English teachers which is why I talked about NETs and which is why you should apologise for calling me a bigot:

Then you admit that your statement of

Quote:

e.g. one foreigner committing one crime - heck not even committing it in Korea - results in multiple changes to the visa system for all immigrants.

is utter hooey.

I'll apologize for stating that the idea (not you) that ALL foreigners in Korea are NETs, and hinted at being white NETs, when you retract this patently false statement.

Those changes affected only one group of workers (not immigrants) and other people of the same race and nationality on a different visa were unaffected. Furthermore, those restrictions on E-2s affected E-2s of ALL races, including Korean-Americans. Therefore the policy is not racist as those of Korean descent are affected as well.

This idea that the E-2 changes are a "racist" policy has been brought up time and time again, and has to continually be disproven. Why don't apologists listen to bashers? They can't even get this core fact straight.

Kimchifart

Joined: 15 Sep 2010

Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:31 pm Post subject:

Steelrails wrote:

Quote:

My point with the question that you very notably and predictably refused to answer is that the answer is there would likely be a crackdown like no other.

Quote:

Then you admit that your statement of

Quote:

e.g. one foreigner committing one crime - heck not even committing it in Korea - results in multiple changes to the visa system for all immigrants.

This discussion is over, we're not communicating. These back and forth gotchas are pointless.

TheUrbanMyth

Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired

Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:42 pm Post subject:

Kimchifart wrote:

[q As regards policy level racism, there's not even an argument: Korean government policy is demonstrably racist (e.g. one foreigner committing one crime - heck not even committing it in Korea - results in multiple changes to the visa system for all immigrants.)

Utter nonsense. The changes were not for all IMMIGRANTS nor were they even for all foreign teachers. They were for ONE class of teachers (E-2) which doesn't even include all NETS.

Who's Your Daddy?

Joined: 30 May 2010
Location: Victoria, Canada.

Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:04 pm Post subject:

TheUrbanMyth wrote:

Kimchifart wrote:

Utter nonsense. The changes were not for all IMMIGRANTS nor were they even for all foreign teachers. They were for ONE class of teachers (E-2) which doesn't even include all NETS.

But they got whitey as best they could.

sml7285

Joined: 26 Apr 2012

Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 12:24 am Post subject:

Who's Your Daddy? wrote:

TheUrbanMyth wrote:

Kimchifart wrote:

Utter nonsense. The changes were not for all IMMIGRANTS nor were they even for all foreign teachers. They were for ONE class of teachers (E-2) which doesn't even include all NETS.

But they got whitey as best they could.

Right. Since a majority of foreign contact happens via E-2s.

fermentation

Joined: 22 Jun 2009

Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 1:54 am Post subject:

Reading Dave's has made me less empathetic.

Kimchifart

Joined: 15 Sep 2010

Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 4:23 am Post subject:

Who's Your Daddy? wrote:

TheUrbanMyth wrote:

Kimchifart wrote:

Utter nonsense. The changes were not for all IMMIGRANTS nor were they even for all foreign teachers. They were for ONE class of teachers (E-2) which doesn't even include all NETS.

But they got whitey as best they could.

I've already explained that I was referring to E2. I meant 'all' in the sense that something that one or two people do affects a massive group of people. It was just lazy use of language. I was always referring to E2, but didn't make that clear enough possibly.

Quote:

It's OK mate I really can't be bothered anymore with these back and forth gotchas. Your argument is predictable and seemingly so is mine, so let's leave it there.

Steelrails

Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 5:36 am Post subject:

Who's Your Daddy? wrote:

TheUrbanMyth wrote:

Kimchifart wrote:

Utter nonsense. The changes were not for all IMMIGRANTS nor were they even for all foreign teachers. They were for ONE class of teachers (E-2) which doesn't even include all NETS.

But they got whitey as best they could.

Not all E-2s are whites. And not all white people are here on E-2s. So there goes that argument.

nero

Joined: 11 Mar 2009

Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 6:13 am Post subject:

Steelrails wrote:

Who's Your Daddy? wrote:

TheUrbanMyth wrote:

Kimchifart wrote:

Utter nonsense. The changes were not for all IMMIGRANTS nor were they even for all foreign teachers. They were for ONE class of teachers (E-2) which doesn't even include all NETS.

But they got whitey as best they could.

Not all E-2s are whites. And not all white people are here on E-2s. So there goes that argument.

Do you think it would be accepted that if in Korea a group of white folk (obviously English teachers) were suspected of building a destructive device with which to destroy a Korean monument, that we would, after that, be accepted here? Do you think that we would? really?

young_clinton

Joined: 09 Sep 2009

Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:43 pm Post subject:

Brazil nuts are gross. Those were always my least favorite. Hazelnuts (filberts) are the nuts that I would be looking for.

Steelrails

Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 5:09 pm Post subject:

nero wrote:

Steelrails wrote:

Who's Your Daddy? wrote:

TheUrbanMyth wrote:

Kimchifart wrote:

Utter nonsense. The changes were not for all IMMIGRANTS nor were they even for all foreign teachers. They were for ONE class of teachers (E-2) which doesn't even include all NETS.

But they got whitey as best they could.

Not all E-2s are whites. And not all white people are here on E-2s. So there goes that argument.

I dunno, considering we bombed and killed a bunch of them 60 years ago and here we are, I'm not sure.

There would probably be an outcry and greater background checks, but global financial reality is global financial reality. English teachers are needed.

As for being accepted, I don't know, let's ask people from the country where a popular politician is trying to root out Muslim Brotherhood infiltration in the government or the countries of "tolerant" Europe that elect far-right anti-Muslim politicians, ban headscarves, and field major political candidates and sometimes even get cabinet positions in the government. Let's look at Austria, Netherlands, France, Greece, and the UK which have seen strong turnouts for far-right anti-Muslim, parties. Parties which have ties to neo-Nazis and holocaust deniers.

So if we want to know how Koreans would react, we could probably look at Europe and get a pretty good idea of it all.

JeffersonDarcy2010

Joined: 05 Aug 2010

Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 6:18 pm Post subject:

Steelrails wrote:

Kore has made me less racist because it confirms what I suspected- People around the world are pretty much their same. The tune may change, but its the same dance.

And lastly, be careful with this thread. A poster by the name of PastorYoon was banned because he blamed Koreans for making him more racist. Tread carefully.

So what. You say it made you less racist, I said it made me more racist. Big deal. My words must have really affected you. You have terrible spelling and grammar, BTW. Enjoy your kimchi.

Mr. BlackCat

Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Location: Insert witty remark HERE

Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 6:26 pm Post subject:

Steelrails wrote:

Kimchifart wrote:

Answer this: (don't duck it, answer it please) What do you think would happen to Korean government policy if English teachers suddenly started blowing themselves up on buses and subways here?

Quote:

You're creating a straw man argument every time you reply to me.

Says the guy who just asked me about English teachers bombing subways....

Quote:

e.g. one foreigner committing one crime - heck not even committing it in Korea - results in multiple changes to the visa system for all immigrants.

So you're saying that the policies put in place after Mr. SquigglyFace whatshisname aren't racist because they only apply to a certain subsection of visa holders? Isn't that the very definition of racism?

I actually do agree that these requirements aren't racist, but they're culturally biased which is what we're really talking about here. It's silly to
pretend that they're not, although I know many posters on here like to think Korea isn't institutionally xenophobic. It's opening up more, but if you live in that fantasy then that's your problem. And pointing out the racism in other countries doesn't make Korean racism any less real. I guess being ignored at a store in Korea isn't as bad as being beaten in Detroit for being the wrong colour. But being beaten in Detroit isn't as bad as being put into a camp in 1936 Germany for being the wrong religion. So where should we draw the line?

Like others, I've certainly lost my cultural relativity naivety. I don't think my 'culture' does everything right, and I certainly don't think Korea does everything wrong, but I've matured enough to realize both do some good things, some bad things, and some neutral things.

TheUrbanMyth

Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired

Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 6:50 pm Post subject:

Mr. BlackCat wrote:

[

So you're saying that the policies put in place after Mr. SquigglyFace whatshisname aren't racist because they only apply to a certain subsection of visa holders? Isn't that the very definition of racism?

Since when does holding a certain type of visa apply to race? You are aware that there are people of Korean ancestry who are on E-2 visas yes? (they couldn't get an F-visa for one reason or another).

There are whites and non-whites on E-2 visas. There are white and non-whites on other kinds of visas.

The E-2 visa was targeted...but none of the other visa holders were. All of the other visa holders together outnumber the E-2 visa holders many times over. So if a small proportion of foreigners (AND SOME PEOPLE OF KOREAN DESCENT) were/are subject to greater checks but the VAST majority of foreigners were not...how in the world is that racist?

Discriminatory it may be in the sense that they applied to only one group of visa holders but certainly not racist. Anyway it's a moot point because under the new guidelines these apply to ALL people teaching children whether you are a foreigner or Korean and whether you teach at a school or hakwon.

Display posts from previous:

	Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> General Discussion Forum	All times are GMT - 8 Hours Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4 Next
Page 3 of 4

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

TEFL International Supports Dave's ESL Cafe