| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Troglodyte
Joined: 06 Dec 2009
|
 Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 4:07 am Post subject: |
 |
|
| Quote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
The onus is not on the accused to prove innocence. It's on the accuser to prove guilt.
Constitution of the Republic of Korea
Article 27, paragraph 4
The accused are presumed innocent until a judgment of guilt has been pronounced. |
That's in a court of law. Immigration does not operate by those standards. Remember the Busan Nine?
If Immigration says you are teaching English and you say you aren't...it would be your word against theirs in a court of law. Who do you think the judge is more likely to believe? And that's if you can afford a lawyer and the time to do so to say nothing of the money.
|
The Busan 9 incident took place back in 2006. No one was deported for it and no one even had to pay a fine. Some of the actors had to write a letter apologizing for the incident - because they charged money for the performance. The fact that (some at least) got paid for the performance was the only thing that stuck in court. Sure, it was motivated because they made fun of Korea and Koreans but the prosecutor still needed to show that they had committed a real offence (e.g. getting paid). Still, they were let off with a warning even on that point. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
young_clinton
Joined: 09 Sep 2009
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 4:56 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Troglodyte wrote: |
The onus is not on the accused to prove innocence. It's on the accuser to prove guilt.
Constitution of the Republic of Korea
Article 27, paragraph 4
The accused are presumed innocent until a judgment of guilt has been pronounced. |
So how does that help you when immigration is questioning and threatening you? Why bother with this stuff? Help your friends when they have some questions or when you can clarify things for them from time to time, but don't have teaching sessions with them. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
sml7285
Joined: 26 Apr 2012
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 5:26 am Post subject: |
|
|
| young_clinton wrote: |
| Troglodyte wrote: |
The onus is not on the accused to prove innocence. It's on the accuser to prove guilt.
Constitution of the Republic of Korea
Article 27, paragraph 4
The accused are presumed innocent until a judgment of guilt has been pronounced. |
So how does that help you when immigration is questioning and threatening you? Why bother with this stuff? Help your friends when they have some questions or when you can clarify things for them from time to time, but don't have teaching sessions with them. |
... No one has given a single substantive example of this actually happening. Stating this is like saying: "having sex before marriage will lead to contracting HIV and dying. My friend told me about a buddy of his this happened to."
All heresay. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Troglodyte
Joined: 06 Dec 2009
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 5:37 am Post subject: |
|
|
| young_clinton wrote: |
| Troglodyte wrote: |
The onus is not on the accused to prove innocence. It's on the accuser to prove guilt.
Constitution of the Republic of Korea
Article 27, paragraph 4
The accused are presumed innocent until a judgment of guilt has been pronounced. |
So how does that help you when immigration is questioning and threatening you? Why bother with this stuff? Help your friends when they have some questions or when you can clarify things for them from time to time, but don't have teaching sessions with them. |
Are you kidding? You're asking how presumed innocence helps you out when dealing with the authorities?
Do you have a reference to someone being grilled by immigration for teaching English to the kids of a friend for free? Do you have a reference of any kind that someone in that situation has even been investigated by immigration? I've met people who got caught teaching privates FOR MONEY or at hogwons (without permission). They don't haul them down to the station in cuffs and try to sweat the truth out of them like in a movie. They present you with the evidence and if you deny it, you can go to trial. If you really are guilty and you can see that they have evidence on you (usually because they caught you red handed) then you can admit to it and ask for a light punishment - usually a fine, sometimes deportation (with a 2 years limit on not returning) possibly just a warning.
Believe it or not, English teacher are really not their top priority. There are other groups of immigrants that they're much more interested in catching. The time and energy it takes are not worth it. Even if you were threatened by the cops, why would you even state that you were giving the kids a free class if you know that they have no proof? Why would they go to the trouble of it all if they know they won't be able to prosecute you? They cherry pick the cases just like the immigration guys in America do. In the case of English teachers (who, as I said, are low on their priority list) they usually check out a hogwon based on a tip from someone. It's easy to do, and if they see you teaching they ask to see your ARC. If you're not supposed to be working then, they arrest you. If you really were just passing by and stopped in to meet your friend who works there, then you can deny it and have it investigated. Chances are that they already investigated because they don't like to go to the trouble of arresting you if they aren't going to catch you. It looks bad if they botch it up. I've heard of them calling up people who advertise around town. Still, even those people usually get turned in by someone they know.
But really, if you were working for immigration, which would you investigate? The factor that is supposedly hiring 20 illegal immigrants? Or the legal resident who might possibly be teaching classes illegally to the children of a friend, who happens to be a professional, well educated, upstanding member of the community?
Some people are really paranoid. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Troglodyte
Joined: 06 Dec 2009
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 5:44 am Post subject: |
|
|
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Troglodyte wrote: |
[q.
OP, in your case you don't need to worry. It's not illegal to teach for free. There are plenty of people (on an E2 even) who teach at orphanages or other institutions for disadvantaged children - for free. Plenty of foreigners also do language exchange - for free. . |
Even for free it is illegal to teach (for E-2's). Even if you teach at an orphanage you MUST get Immigration's permission first if you are on an E-2 for "activities permitted under the status of sojourn". |
Where is your quote from? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
NilesQ
Joined: 27 Nov 2006
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 5:47 am Post subject: |
|
|
| I used to teach the daughter of a policeman at their home! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 5:51 am Post subject: |
|
|
I was once investigated by immigration for supposedly teaching privates.
I was staying in a yeogwon at the time and was looking for my next job.
After a few days of fruitless searching, I was met at the door of my
room by a middle aged Korean gentleman who claimed he had some
private students for me. (his kids - supposedly) I told him I wasn't interested and was looking for a real job.
He persisted and would not leave. He kept saying, " I know how things
are for Foreigners in Korea. I know it can be tough". blah blah blah.
I finally took his phone number, just so he would leave me alone.
I had no intention of teaching privates at all, I just wanted him to leave.
The next day 2 guys from immigration showed up and accused me of
teaching private classes. They were ready to haul me off if I would have
admitted to it, but I told them I was looking for work and that was all.
So from my own experience (if that means anything) I would guess that they do need some evidence to go on.
But I also strongly suspect that this was some sort of sting operation.
The guy knew my name, where I had worked etc, but claimed to be a friend of my ex- girlfriend. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
NilesQ
Joined: 27 Nov 2006
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 6:57 am Post subject: |
|
|
| some waygug-in wrote: |
The guy knew my name, where I had worked etc, but claimed to be a friend of my ex- girlfriend. |
The wrath of the ex-girlfriend is not to be underestimated! Often they want you out of the country. Out of sight, out of mind.
Did this guy know her name or did he just say "your ex-gf"? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:51 am Post subject: |
|
|
He knew her name and some details about her as well.
It may have been something cooked up by my ex, but who knows? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Scorpion
Joined: 15 Apr 2012
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Not a few foreigners have been busted shortly after breaking up with their Korean girlfriends. They want revenge and have your list of private classes, and where you'll be at what time. They simply take it to immigration and you get caught in the act. Korean ex's can be very nasty. They've lost face, and getting you deported will get it back. If your relationship is on the rocks, make sure she doesn't have access to your schedule. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
sml7285
Joined: 26 Apr 2012
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Scorpion wrote: |
| Not a few foreigners have been busted shortly after breaking up with their Korean girlfriends. They want revenge and have your list of private classes, and where you'll be at what time. They simply take it to immigration and you get caught in the act. Korean ex's can be very nasty. They've lost face, and getting you deported will get it back. If your relationship is on the rocks, make sure she doesn't have access to your schedule. |
I guess some Korean guy came up with the phrase "hell (hath no) fury like a woman scorned..."
Oh wait. That's right. All women the world over get pissed when they're dumped. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Modernist
Joined: 23 Mar 2011
Location: The 90s
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 8:23 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| Not a few foreigners have been busted shortly after breaking up with their Korean girlfriends. They want revenge and have your list of private classes, and where you'll be at what time. They simply take it to immigration and you get caught in the act. Korean ex's can be very nasty. They've lost face, and getting you deported will get it back. If your relationship is on the rocks, make sure she doesn't have access to your schedule. |
Easier solution: don't date Koreans. Problem solved.
Really. What do they bring that makes them worth the constant list of problems and issues and complications? Is there something great I don't get about dating a 25-year-old who dresses, acts, speaks and thinks like she's 15 [which is what this kind of petty vindictiveness sounds like]? Or a 35-year-old who behaves like 25? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
sml7285
Joined: 26 Apr 2012
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 12:52 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Modernist wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Not a few foreigners have been busted shortly after breaking up with their Korean girlfriends. They want revenge and have your list of private classes, and where you'll be at what time. They simply take it to immigration and you get caught in the act. Korean ex's can be very nasty. They've lost face, and getting you deported will get it back. If your relationship is on the rocks, make sure she doesn't have access to your schedule. |
Easier solution: don't date Koreans. Problem solved.
Really. What do they bring that makes them worth the constant list of problems and issues and complications? Is there something great I don't get about dating a 25-year-old who dresses, acts, speaks and thinks like she's 15 [which is what this kind of petty vindictiveness sounds like]? Or a 35-year-old who behaves like 25? |
My friend's ex-girlfriend took a bat to his car when he broke up with her in the States. Revenge is not something limited to Korean women. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
