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rchristo10
Joined: 14 Jul 2009
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 Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 3:04 pm Post subject: Question about Korean Language and Black Race... |
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So today, SBS did a report on the US gymnast who just won the women's individual all around, who happens to be an African-American.
From what I know, the term for African-American is 흑인 (Heuk-in). Yet they decided to use the caption: 검은 첫 올림픽 금(Gum eun chut Olympic geum), which translates as Darky (as in the literal color) First Olympic Gold.
My question for the veterans and other Korean language masters out there is whether this is rude. Personally, it sounds a bit strange to me and a bit offensive. But is this variation inoffensive?
검은 사람 (Dark person)/ 검은 (Darky) = African-American/ black person
(or)
흑인= Black Person
From what I know, the first seems to be racially offensive, since it is often employed when cursing a black person as in:
검은 새끼 = which is a negative expression for a black person.
If one must point out a racial color, which is best? Or are they both equally OK? 
Last edited by rchristo10 on Thu Aug 02, 2012 11:40 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Fat_Elvis
Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Location: In the ghetto
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| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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Your Korean is clearly much better than mine, I only know 흑인.
It's a mystery to me though why the Korean media would need to comment on the athlete's ethnic background at all. Can't they simply use the athlete's name and nationality to differentiate who they are? |
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fermentation
Joined: 22 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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| I think you may have seen that wrong or it was a typo. 검은 isn't a noun and isn't used to describe black people. The sentence makes no grammatical sense. If they said 검은 사람 it would've made more sense. |
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sml7285
Joined: 26 Apr 2012
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| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 3:28 pm Post subject: Re: Question about Korean Language and Black Race... |
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| rchristo10 wrote: |
So today, SBS did a report on the US gymnast who just one the women's individual all around, who happens to be an African-American.
From what I know, the term for African-American is 흑인 (Heuk-in). Yet they decided to use the caption: 검은 첫 올림픽 금(Gum eun chut Olympic geum), which translates as Darky (as in the literal color) First Olympic Gold.
My question for the veterans and other Korean language masters out there is whether this is rude. Personally, it sounds a bit strange to me and a bit offensive. But is this variation inoffensive?
검은 사람 (Dark person)/ 검은 (Darky) = African-American/ black person
(or)
흑인= Black Person
From what I know, the first seems to be racially offensive, since it is often employed when cursing a black person as in:
검은 새끼 = which is a negative expression for a black person.
If one must point out a racial color, which is best? Or are they both equally OK? |
Not 100% positive, but my mom mixes 하얀사람 and 백인 all the time. She's not racist in the slightest.
As for the 새끼 bit, you could call someone white or black in English and not be offensive, but everything changes if you slap on a curse word behind either.
White Person: Not offensive
White Bas------ : Offensive |
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rchristo10
Joined: 14 Jul 2009
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| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 4:42 pm Post subject: |
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| fermentation wrote: |
| I think you may have seen that wrong or it was a typo. 검은 isn't a noun and isn't used to describe black people. The sentence makes no grammatical sense. If they said 검은 사람 it would've made more sense. |
There's nothing wrong with my eyesight nor my grammar. As I wrote above, it was a caption, i.e. it wasn't a sentence. I also know that it is an adjective, but as u can see the word is pretty difficult to translate as used in the caption.
Perhaps that's why I was a bit offended, cuz there was no noun after 검은 so I can only translate it as a noun/adjectival like word: blacky/ blackie.
@sml7285: Isn't calling someone by the actual color *black/dark* rude here? Koreans in the past used to discriminate one another by skin tone as well. Isn't the color white used to compliment skin complexion whereas black as a descriptive of skin tone negative? Most of my friends use the Korean color term for white when they are complimenting complexion. Does ur mom also say 검은이 or 검은 사람 for blacks? No pun intended, but it kinda sounds rude to me. Havent asked my friends cuz I want see what foreigners think who are the object of the term. Thanks though! |
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fermentation
Joined: 22 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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I meant it might've been a typo on the part of the network. Whatever their intentions, it makes no sense to use the word in that manner. Its not offensive because the sentence simply doesn't work.
검은 사람 and 흑인 mean literally the same thing, but the way its used is different. Generally people use 흑인 to describe black people/ people of African descent. People don't really use 검은 사람 in that context. 검은 may be used more literally. It's similar to the way we use "black" person in English. Nobody means they're literally the color black. For example, I'm pretty pale so people say I'm "하얗다" a lot but they don't mean I'm a 백인 / caucasian. |
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sml7285
Joined: 26 Apr 2012
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| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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| rchristo10 wrote: |
| fermentation wrote: |
| I think you may have seen that wrong or it was a typo. 검은 isn't a noun and isn't used to describe black people. The sentence makes no grammatical sense. If they said 검은 사람 it would've made more sense. |
There's nothing wrong with my eyesight nor my grammar. As I wrote above, it was a caption, i.e. it wasn't a sentence. I also know that it is an adjective, but as u can see the word is pretty difficult to translate as used in the caption.
Perhaps that's why I was a bit offended, cuz there was no noun after 검은 so I can only translate it as a noun/adjectival like word: blacky/ blackie.
@sml7285: Isn't calling someone by the actual color *black/dark* rude here? Koreans in the past used to discriminate one another by skin tone as well. Isn't the color white used to compliment skin complexion whereas black as a descriptive of skin tone negative? Most of my friends use the Korean color term for white when they are complimenting complexion. Does ur mom also say 검은이 or 검은 사람 for blacks? No pun intended, but it kinda sounds rude to me. Havent asked my friends cuz I want see what foreigners think who are the object of the term. Thanks though! |
The negative connotations only extend to Koreans, as pale skin is seen as a sign of beauty (just as tan skin is seen as a sign of beauty in Caucasians in the US). Dark skin has a negative connotations only to the extent that pasty skin is negative in the US - nothing to do with race.
My mom doesn't really talk about blacks that much (all my friends are white) so I can only infer the rudeness of the term from how my mom talks about white people. |
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rchristo10
Joined: 14 Jul 2009
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| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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| fermentation wrote: |
I meant it might've been a typo on the part of the network. Whatever their intentions, it makes no sense to use the word in that manner. Its not offensive because the sentence simply doesn't work.
검은 사람 and 흑인 mean literally the same thing, but the way its used is different. Generally people use 흑인 to describe black people/ people of African descent. People don't really use 검은 사람 in that context. 검은 may be used more literally. It's similar to the way we use "black" person in English. Nobody means they're literally the color black. For example, I'm pretty pale so people say I'm "하얗다" a lot but they don't mean I'm a 백인 / caucasian. |
It was a media tag, not a sentence, so grammar is a non-issue. Sorta like the comment they put up while the caster speaks. And in Korean you don't always need the object of a descriptive, but that'll has little to do with the question.
I like ur interpretation of the issue. But isn't pale used positively here? |
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rchristo10
Joined: 14 Jul 2009
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| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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| sml7285 wrote: |
| rchristo10 wrote: |
| fermentation wrote: |
| I think you may have seen that wrong or it was a typo. 검은 isn't a noun and isn't used to describe black people. The sentence makes no grammatical sense. If they said 검은 사람 it would've made more sense. |
There's nothing wrong with my eyesight nor my grammar. As I wrote above, it was a caption, i.e. it wasn't a sentence. I also know that it is an adjective, but as u can see the word is pretty difficult to translate as used in the caption.
Perhaps that's why I was a bit offended, cuz there was no noun after 검은 so I can only translate it as a noun/adjectival like word: blacky/ blackie.
@sml7285: Isn't calling someone by the actual color *black/dark* rude here? Koreans in the past used to discriminate one another by skin tone as well. Isn't the color white used to compliment skin complexion whereas black as a descriptive of skin tone negative? Most of my friends use the Korean color term for white when they are complimenting complexion. Does ur mom also say 검은이 or 검은 사람 for blacks? No pun intended, but it kinda sounds rude to me. Havent asked my friends cuz I want see what foreigners think who are the object of the term. Thanks though! |
The negative connotations only extend to Koreans, as pale skin is seen as a sign of beauty (just as tan skin is seen as a sign of beauty in Caucasians in the US). Dark skin has a negative connotations only to the extent that pasty skin is negative in the US - nothing to do with race.
My mom doesn't really talk about blacks that much (all my friends are white) so I can only infer the rudeness of the term from how my mom talks about white people. |
Dark skin has nothing to do with race here? Again, no sarcasm intended. I'm trying to imagine what that means and I'm seriously at a loss, but I guess it could be possible. What do u mean? I guess a person can be dark and a different race, but from my experience Koreans seldom acknowledge different skin tones when it comes to blacks. But I'm likely over thinking this... |
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fermentation
Joined: 22 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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| rchristo10 wrote: |
It was a media tag, not a sentence, so grammar is a non-issue. Sorta like the comment they put up while the caster speaks. And in Korean you don't always need the object of a descriptive, but that'll has little to do with the question.
I like ur interpretation of the issue. But isn't pale used positively here? |
Even as a tagline it makes no sense, much less possess racial connotations. If anything, it sounds like they're talking about an Olympic gold that's also black and first. It's a mistake by the network unless they started employing three year olds to do their writing. Just show local Koreans the tagline and ask them what they think it means. They'll probably be confused as you are.
Negative or positive, my point was that it's generally not used to describe black people. Racial slur you're thinking of is 검둥이 or 껌둥이 (also spelled 깜둥이). |
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Yangachi
Joined: 17 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Fat_Elvis wrote: |
Your Korean is clearly much better than mine, I only know 흑인.
It's a mystery to me though why the Korean media would need to comment on the athlete's ethnic background at all. Can't they simply use the athlete's name and nationality to differentiate who they are? |
Apparently, she's the first black woman to win gold in both the individual all-around and team competitions at the same Olympics.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/aug/02/gabrielle-douglas-london-2012-gymnastics-gold |
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Yangachi
Joined: 17 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 7:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| From what I know, the term for African-American is 흑인 |
No it's not. 흑인 simply means 'black person.' |
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rchristo10
Joined: 14 Jul 2009
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| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Yangachi wrote: |
| Quote: |
| From what I know, the term for African-American is 흑인 |
No it's not. 흑인 simply means 'black person.' |
Meaning it's the PC term in Korean, which grants the proper translation as "African-American," not simply it's uncoded, literal syllabic interpretation:
Or should we start translating like this:
미국인 = beautiful country person 美国人
영국인 = brave country person 英国人
중국인 = middle country person 中国人... and the like.
....sorry, but translation isn't done so "simply," that's why I'm asking. As a person who is often an object of racial terms, I find 검은, 검둥이, 깜마기, 껌땡이, and all it's variations as offensive terms that shouldn't be used on TV or in the news. I'm just wondering if other people who know such terms feel the same.
I'm also curious, and learning a great deal from the posts, that white/ Caucasian people don't seem to be bothered by the variations in the terms of "endearment" that are used to refer to them. It's not all together shocking being that "white" in Korean is often used as a positive compliment regarding skin complexion. But...again...the nuances are so subtle and interesting to say the least. |
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Yangachi
Joined: 17 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 8:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Meaning it's the PC term in Korean, which grants the proper translation as "African-American," |
You realize that the majority of black people in the world are not American? |
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Landros
Joined: 19 Oct 2007
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| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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http://www.amazon.com/The-Cleanest-Race-Themselves-Publishing/dp/1935554344
American Nationality breaks racial boundaries but it isn't a concept in most countries. think of all the Indians in India and Chinese in China. Even Red Indians weren't American citizens until lately. The whole national think is basically an extended family thing.
I like the races in the Lord of the Rings and the Hobbit but sadly no one thinks of us as Human when competing in he Olympics.
Oh well time will tell. Check out the link above it is really interesting about North Korean racism if anyone feels there is some here check out the "other" Koreans!! |
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