|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
crisdean
Joined: 04 Feb 2010
Location: Seoul Special City
|
 Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 3:49 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| radcon wrote: |
| Mr. BlackCat wrote: |
How is Canada underrepresented? In 2008 we finished 14th in overall medals. We're not the 14th most populous country in the world. The only countries that got more medals than us with smaller populations are Belarus, Cuba and Australia.
For Belarus, they got one more gold and one more overall, and they're still feeding off the Soviet era infrastructure. They're fading. Cuba got one less gold, but 6 more medals. They do well by concentrating on a few key sports and getting as many medals as possible there. However, this year their volleyball teams failed to qualify and baseball has been taken out so Canada will likely finish ahead of them. Australia is always a summer sport powerhouse, but actually this year they're struggling. They'll still finish ahead of Canada, but we'll kill them in the Winter Games.
I'm not saying this to insult the US or China, or diminish their accomplishments, only to refute the claim that Canada is underrepresented in medals. The US has 10x the population, but in 2008 won about 6x the amount of medals. China is even more skewed. So how are we not represented?
There are a number of reasons why Canada doesn't win that many Olympic medals. As others have mentioned, funding is one issue, although it's being addressed slowly. I think someone else noted that in Canada sport is still amateur in the sense that our athletes don't train 40 hours a week. Most of them still have jobs or go to school, unlike most from the US, China and other big countries. But another big part that people often overlook is the fact that Canada is huge and has a very spread out population. If there's a kid in the BC interior, for example, who shows promise in swimming he and his family must pick up and move thousands of kms to Vancouver to start to train. If he's really good, he'll likely have to move to Montreal where we have Olympic sized facilities. In France, Italy, even Australia due to their relative population concentration, the distance is much shorter. In the US, state of the art facilities can be found in many cities across the country. It sounds like a lame excuse, but I'm not making excuses. It's just a fact of life.
We currently have 7 medals, with many more to come this weekend. No golds yet, but our big favourites haven't competed yet. At this point in Beijing we had exactly ZERO medals, so just enjoy it. Or stick to the Winter Games. |
Before starting in with the " Country x has 10 times the population of country y, so they should win 10 times the medals" you need to take a statistics class. |
Okay, I'll bite. Please do impart upon us your superior statistical/probabilistic prowess |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 4:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
One thing...I really don't care for the whole "Our poor amateur boys vs. their government lab monsters" narrative.
If a largely "amateur" country suddenly went the "factory" route, do you think they'd call it a factory? No, they'd say that "We offer the most comprehensive programs and opportunities to our athletes and give them full public support. Thanks to our National Endowment for Athletics, we give young people a chance at greatness." or something like that.
Are US athletes amateurs or are they "products of a sports-obsessed, marketing driven American capitalist obsession with hyper-competition and winning at all costs"? It's all in how you word it and your biases.
Now if some malnourished African country beats the great America at something, are we talking about how the humble amateur Kenyan beat off the well-funded, technologically calibrated American? No, its a bunch of "Kenya's altitude gives them a natural advantage". Or else it's "what did we do wrong" not what did they do well. Now if we lose to someone from Eastern Europe or Asia, invariably the cries of "Sports Factory" come out and "They must be doping". Never mind that we're the country that gave the world BALCO, Lance Armstrong, Barry Bonds, Carl Lewis, Marion Jones, and Flo-Jo. Athletics receives no state support? Penn State anyone?
And I'm sorry, but I'm willing to bet the state aide in a country like Romania there isn't a dramatic difference from the facilities at a top Division I school in the U.S. But of course the American is a humble student-athlete, juggling books and sports, while the Romanian is some soulless robot engineered by a bunch of doctors who are a step away from Mengele.
At least the Brits have some class when they lose. Seems they blame the manager for being an idiot and the players for being too drunk the night before, which is probably as close to honesty and fairness as you're going to get in sports. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Joe Boxer
Joined: 25 Dec 2007
Location: Bundang, South Korea
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 5:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
[quote="hellofaniceguy"]
| Joe Boxer wrote: |
| sml7285 wrote: |
| radcon wrote: |
| Start training yourself there champ. See you in four years in Brazil. |
I actually gave it a shot as an amateur boxer, and won the provincials, but lost the Nationals. Anyway, I'm inelligible now, since I fought pro. And I'm 39 years old (at midnight!. |
Age is only a number...it's about heart...does one have it. And can ones' body stand up!
I hear all the time..."I'm 30/40/50 and if I go back to college, join the military, train to fight...or whatever...I'll be 34/44/54 in 4 years....hell I say...you'll be 34/44/54 in 4 years years anyway!
But I'll tell you what...Canadians and Canada in General...rock! And I am not even Canadian! |
I TOTALLY agree with you that age is just a number. I brought up the fact that I'm 39 because boxing is the only Olympic sport with an age limit: 34. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mr. BlackCat
Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Location: Insert witty remark HERE
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 8:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| radcon wrote: |
| Mr. BlackCat wrote: |
How is Canada underrepresented? In 2008 we finished 14th in overall medals. We're not the 14th most populous country in the world. The only countries that got more medals than us with smaller populations are Belarus, Cuba and Australia.
For Belarus, they got one more gold and one more overall, and they're still feeding off the Soviet era infrastructure. They're fading. Cuba got one less gold, but 6 more medals. They do well by concentrating on a few key sports and getting as many medals as possible there. However, this year their volleyball teams failed to qualify and baseball has been taken out so Canada will likely finish ahead of them. Australia is always a summer sport powerhouse, but actually this year they're struggling. They'll still finish ahead of Canada, but we'll kill them in the Winter Games.
I'm not saying this to insult the US or China, or diminish their accomplishments, only to refute the claim that Canada is underrepresented in medals. The US has 10x the population, but in 2008 won about 6x the amount of medals. China is even more skewed. So how are we not represented?
There are a number of reasons why Canada doesn't win that many Olympic medals. As others have mentioned, funding is one issue, although it's being addressed slowly. I think someone else noted that in Canada sport is still amateur in the sense that our athletes don't train 40 hours a week. Most of them still have jobs or go to school, unlike most from the US, China and other big countries. But another big part that people often overlook is the fact that Canada is huge and has a very spread out
population. If there's a kid in the BC interior, for example, who shows promise in swimming he and his family must pick up and move thousands of kms to Vancouver to start to train. If he's really good, he'll likely have to move to Montreal where we have Olympic sized facilities. In France, Italy, even Australia due to their relative population concentration, the distance is much shorter. In the US, state of the art facilities can be found in many cities across the country. It sounds like a lame excuse, but I'm not making excuses. It's just a fact of life.
We currently have 7 medals, with many more to come this weekend. No golds yet, but our big favourites haven't competed yet. At this point in Beijing we had exactly ZERO medals, so just enjoy it. Or stick to the Winter Games. |
Before starting in with the " Country x has 10 times the population of country y, so they should win 10 times the medals" you need to take a statistics class. |
This site is full of angry people out to start fights and prove their intelligence without ever actually reading what other people put, isnt it? I even put a lengthly disclaimer. One more time then. I never said the US should win 10x more medals. I merely pointed out that Canada isn't underepresented on the medal tables. I was assuming the OP was using per capita percentages to come to his conclusion and i pointed out that it was flawed.
But it doesnt matter. Youll only hear what you want to hear, youll misquote me and start using abstract math to get to some conclusion i never even implied. Ive played this game before. Im done here. Have fun arguing over what the meaning of 'is' is. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
misher
Joined: 14 Oct 2008
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 12:03 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
One thing...I really don't care for the whole "Our poor amateur boys vs. their government lab monsters" narrative.
If a largely "amateur" country suddenly went the "factory" route, do you think they'd call it a factory? No, they'd say that "We offer the most comprehensive programs and opportunities to our athletes and give them full public support. Thanks to our National Endowment for Athletics, we give young people a chance at greatness." or something like that. |
I'm the only one who mentioned this so I'm assuming your post was directed at me.
As Blackcat pointed out this is why discussing anything on Dave's is a complete waste of time and why I rarely post.
Rails,
Thanks for taking my point to the extreme and putting words in my mouth. I never said this was an a phenomenon restricted only to countries like South Korea. That is absurd. Whether it is government tax dollars going into elite collegiate programs or koreas version of "amateur" sports academies its all the same as far as I'm concerned. They are not amateurs and you know what? That IS OK. If that is what it takes to be the best then so be it. But countries like canada simply cannot be expected to compete and its funny because most canadians I know are simply happy if an athlete manages a top 10 performance. It just shocks me when some canadians wonder why we dont excel. The answer is simple. Support support support. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Lazio
Joined: 15 Dec 2010
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 3:18 am Post subject: |
|
|
| radcon wrote: |
| Before starting in with the " Country x has 10 times the population of country y, so they should win 10 times the medals" you need to take a statistics class. |
There are about 1,000,000 people playing table tennis in China on a more or less professional level. So far the cleared 2 golds and 2 silvers and the only reason they didn't win 2 bronze medals as well is because only 2 athlete can participate from one nation and those two both made it to the final.
It�s pretty obvious that the more the population the higher the number of athletes engaged in a certain sport and the better chances for real talent to surface. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
youtuber
Joined: 13 Sep 2009
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 2:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The olympics just aren't a real priority for us and we are a small nation.
Let countries like China and the US distract their citizens from serious problems with flashy gold medals.
If anything, our athletes should get less funding. If they want to play games in far away countries, they can fund themselves. I do not want to pay for that. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
|
| Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 12:54 am Post subject: |
|
|
| youtuber wrote: |
The olympics just aren't a real priority for us and we are a small nation.
Let countries like China and the US distract their citizens from serious problems with flashy gold medals.
If anything, our athletes should get less funding. If they want to play games in far away countries, they can fund themselves. I do not want to pay for that. |
Dude, come on.
For the British their "Olympics" revolves around Rugby, Cricket, and Football.
Playing the whole "we just don't care too much about sports, old tiny little us" is just silly. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
lichtarbeiter
Joined: 15 Nov 2006
Location: Korea
|
| Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 4:10 am Post subject: |
|
|
I'm pretty sure the rest of the world doesn't care about how many medals Canada wins, so I don't think you need to feel embarrassed.
Besides, we don't even do that badly considering the circumstances. Spain has a higher population than us, plus more ideal year-round weather conditions for training, and we matched their medal count in 2008.
Furthermore, everyone knows our best athletes go into hockey. Guys like Sidney Crosby, Shea Weber, Ryan Getzlaf, etc, also dominated in the other sports they played when they were younger before they made the choice to commit to hockey.
In sum, who cares? Just enjoy the Olympics. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Joe Boxer
Joined: 25 Dec 2007
Location: Bundang, South Korea
|
| Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 6:38 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Mr. BlackCat wrote: |
| How is Canada underrepresented? In 2008 we finished 14th in overall medals. We're not the 14th most populous country in the world. The only countries that got more medals than us with smaller populations are Belarus, Cuba and Australia. |
You go by overall medals? As in, bronze=gold?
Here's a link to the Wikipedia 2008 Medal Table (we're 19th)
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Summer_Olympics_medal_table#section_1
But I get what you're saying, about population. It's just another excuse, though. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Joe Boxer
Joined: 25 Dec 2007
Location: Bundang, South Korea
|
| Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 7:02 am Post subject: |
|
|
Mr. BlackCat,
You brought up some other points such as certain geographical advantages, but I'm sure that those countries have their own disadvantages. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
byrddogs
Joined: 19 Jun 2009
Location: Shanghai
|
| Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 2:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| I'd like to congratulate Canada on their first gold of the games. I didn't realize there was such a thing as olympic trampoline, but either way, you guys can breathe a sigh of relief now. Enjoy the rest of the games! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Joe Boxer
Joined: 25 Dec 2007
Location: Bundang, South Korea
|
| Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 3:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| byrddogs wrote: |
| I'd like to congratulate Canada on their first gold of the games. I didn't realize there was such a thing as olympic trampoline, but either way, you guys can breathe a sigh of relief now. Enjoy the rest of the games! |
Thanks! I watched it early this morning. Yeah, I didn't know trampoline was an Olympic sport either. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
radcon
Joined: 23 May 2011
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 6:10 am Post subject: |
|
|
| byrddogs wrote: |
| I'd like to congratulate Canada on their first gold of the games. I didn't realize there was such a thing as olympic trampoline, but either way, you guys can breathe a sigh of relief now. Enjoy the rest of the games! |
Trampoline? There is no need to patronize our Canadian friends and make up fanciful events and false gold medals just to make them feel better about their poor showing. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
4 months left
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 5:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Does it really matter to the vast majority of people who is the best in the world at trampoline or archery? How many lives will be changed because of it? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
