Korean Job Discussion Forums

[austrian123]

1. ive been lurking around Dave�s since 1998. Back then the number of postings were quite high. Nowadays the number of posts are quite low. I guess it shows the number of esl teachers has dramatically declined.

2. Salaries for teachers are quite low. Is it even worth teaching for the typical 2.1 monthly salary?

[Dodge7]

This is the worst example of a declining ESL market. ESL teachers in Korea has dramatically risen in the last 10 years and even in the last 3.

[Hugo85]

But... but.. but.... dave's ESL forum = ESL in Korea!!!! How can you even make a distinction!

[Zackback]

So true.
What you see on Dave's is a perfect reflection of Korea. In fact, Dave's IS Korea.

Salaraies are low - yeah I know they beat the piss out of no jobs/salary back home but still they are way too low with how much things have gone up around here.

[Kepler]

I remember reading that there were about 5,000 people on E-2 visas back then compared to about 20,000 nowadays. However, it was easier to get a job back then because a lot less people wanted to come to Korea.

[lemak]

[ttompatz]

I think it is more a case of mature market vs emerging market.

10-15 years ago Korea was an emerging market.
Jobs outnumbered applicants by about 6-1.
Wages were going up.
Benefits were good.

BUT

the industry was rife with problems as well (like unpaid wages, being held and worked against your will (ala: prisoners of Wonderland)).
Even government programs utilized quick tricks to skirt around the fine edges of the law (EPIK used to offer 50 week contracts to avoid severance).

Now the market in Korea has matured (sort of like Japan did 10 years ago).

Wages and job levels have stabilized. Benefits have standardized and the problems, while still there, are not at the same levels as they were 15 years ago.

China is the new "Wild West" of the East. It is now what Korea was 15 years ago.
Jobs outnumber applicants by a ratio of about 10-1.
Wages are climbing (10 years ago a good job paid 3000 rmb; now 6000 is about the low end and 15,000 is certainly out there for anyone with some qualifications and experience).

The industry is also rife with the same problems that plagued Korea 15 years ago.

Is the ESL/EFL market dying? No, I don't think so.
Is it time to move on = probably yes for a lot of folks.

.

[rchristo10]

Or perhaps the posting options have grown and there are more outlets than Dave's for ESL teachers to find, transfer, or exchange info. I'm still shocked that this site exists even though it refuses to upgrade beyond the Facebook option.

1. No ability to block viewing users.
2. No "like" or "unlike" options.
3. No smart phone app.
4. No improvement in the look or feel of the site.
5. No personalization options for members.
6. Well...you get the point.

(if not) ...Dave's really needs a makeover.

[Adventurer]

[lemak]

[fosterman]

vietnam and china pay the same as korea, they never use to, so all teachers came to Korea.. but now it's different.

saudi arabia pays the most now, so teachers go there too.
south Korea was the first choice.. it's not anymore.
we are seeing a decline . which is a good thing.

[PatrickGHBusan]

Ttom is dead on target here.

This is clearly a case of an industry maturing. The comparison with how the ESL-TEFL industry matured in Japan is very clear. I agree that China and other asian destinations are emerging (Thailand, Vietnam).

The Korean ESL market has standardized considerably when you compare it to 1997 when I arrived. Conditions have streamlined for example and lot of the problems that were fairly common in the late 1990s have been reduced or eliminated to a large degree.

So this market is no longer an employees market in the sense that the job offers greatly outnumber the applicants. The ratio now is about par or is often (see entry-level jobs) flooded with more applicants than jobs.

Bascially, as time goes by entry-level applicants with little or no experience will move to other locales as the Korean market continues to mature.

Is it dying? That is not the case no.

One thing is clear taking Dave's ESL are representative of the ESL market in Korea is one of the worst ideas in the long history of bad ideas.

This place (Dave's) has its uses but should in no way be used as some sort of factual tool or database..that very idea is ludicrous.

[creeper1]

Yeah. I agree with the a previous poster that said it is Dave's esl that is decline and not necessarily Korea's ESL market.

You want a job these days you go on facebook and the recruiters are there. They are there in Byeongjeom Social Club, Bundang Social CLub Dontan Clan and all those groups people set up.

[Milwaukiedave]

[Captain Corea]

Yeah, between Facebook, other ESL/Korea forums, and a few F-specifics forums popping up, I can see why things seem slower here.

I do wonder though - is it actually?