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viciousdinosaur
Joined: 30 Apr 2012
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 Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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| OMG. Did anyone see that picture? I feel dirty inside now. Like I'm actually looking at this picture and thinking, "well he's quite muscular, don't see any problem there" like, really, is this what teaching English has come to? |
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iggyb
Joined: 29 Oct 2003
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| Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 2:36 am Post subject: |
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Don't work for a place this guy lines up for you. You have several key items that let you know you can't trust this guy. Why should you trust someone he hands you off to?
I asked the weight question, because hakwons have been known to let people go for that. How you look is more important than how well you teach.
I also agree that the complaints about the expats is bogus. He chose to have an English hakwon where having a native speaker is vital to attracting business. He could have had a math or science or whatever other hakwon kids are forced to go to hour after hour each week.
And the Korean teachers work harder because the boss can get away with treating them worse. That is why he likes them better...
That might be why he let you loose too. You said you'd worked in Korea before. If you showed you'd been in Korea before and knew the system, he might have decided it was better to replace you with a newbie he could get away with pushing around more...
If he wants you to memorize names and do all that extra paperwork and let you go because you didn't do it to his standards, that might be within his rights, but I wouldn't fret over it.
I'd just walk away. The extra paperwork everyday is worth leaving.
You could try taking him to the labor board anyway. They could just turn down your application or rule against you. No problem. But, you would have to worry about him trying to get revenge somehow. If he got in touch with your new boss, it could cause trouble.
If you stay around the hakwon industry long enough, pretty much everybody takes some lumps.
If it were me, I'd just move on to another place and be happy I didn't have to deal with that employer all the time. |
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YTMND
Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!
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| Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 3:49 am Post subject: |
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| Bottom line - under Korean labor law you are considered to be a probationary employee for the 1st six months. They can cut you loose for any/no reason during that time without notice. |
If this is the case, that sucks. I remember leaving my first school in Japan after 3 months, and this was an issue. Some schools didn't want to hire until December to make sure I was over the 6 month mark.
However, I found a school in October and worked there for 3.5 years. |
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Bollocks
Joined: 12 Feb 2009
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| Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 6:05 am Post subject: |
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Don't get me wrong, I am glad to be leaving. This place is/was not a good fit for me. The director wanted our lessons planned weeks in advance. He didn't say it, but he wanted the teachers to take the books home and study them.
5 1/2 hours of teaching (45min class * 7) per day + one 45 minute lunch break means that he expected me to either come in early and work unpaid, or stay late and work unpaid, or take the books home and work unpaid.
As a big stupid foreigner, I failed to grasp this subtly, and chose to go through the book as quickly as the kids were learning.
Anyway, I am not sad to be leaving. I am worried about the future. On Sept 1st, I'm gone, whether it's to a new job or back home, the school doesn't care. If anyone trusts their recruiter, or knows of any ASAP job openings in Seoul (especially in and near Seongbuk-Gu), please let me know.
Fake Edit: I just remembered one thing about this job that really got me. I specifically asked if the apartment would include a 천정형 빨래건조대. It's the most important thing to have. They said "Yes. The apartment has 천정형 빨래건조대." Then, when I arrived, NO 천정형 빨래건조대! If I have to do laundry in my kitchen, you are not allowed to act surprised when my clothes smell like food! |
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YTMND
Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!
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| Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 6:15 am Post subject: |
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| Bollocks wrote: |
Don't get me wrong, I am glad to be leaving. This place is/was not a good fit for me. The director wanted our lessons planned weeks in advance. He didn't say it, but he wanted the teachers to take the books home and study them.
5 1/2 hours of teaching (45min class * 7) per day + one 45 minute lunch break means that he expected me to either come in early and work unpaid, or stay late and work unpaid, or take the books home and work unpaid.
As a big stupid foreigner, I failed to grasp this subtly, and chose to go through the book as quickly as the kids were learning.
Anyway, I am not sad to be leaving. I am worried about the future. On Sept 1st, I'm gone, whether it's to a new job or back home, the school doesn't care. If anyone trusts their recruiter, or knows of any ASAP job openings in Seoul (especially in and near Seongbuk-Gu), please let me know.
Fake Edit: I just remembered one thing about this job that really got me. I specifically asked if the apartment would include a 천정형 빨래건조대. It's the most important thing to have. They said "Yes. The apartment has 천정형 빨래건조대." Then, when I arrived, NO 천정형 빨래건조대! If I have to do laundry in my kitchen, you are not allowed to act surprised when my clothes smell like food! |
Sorry, I don't get it, ceiling coat rack (google translation) cooking, kitchen.
Please explain. |
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Bollocks
Joined: 12 Feb 2009
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| Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 7:42 am Post subject: |
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In an officetel, the place where you cook your food is also the place where your clothes hang to dry. This means your clothes absorb food odour as they dry. In turn, your clothes smell like food, which means you smell like food.
The 천정형 빨래건조대 is not a coat rack. It's a laundry drying rack. Usually mounted on the ceiling of an area sealed from the rest of the apartment - a laundry balcony. Clothes dried there do not absorb smells from the kitchen. |
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YTMND
Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!
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| Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 11:14 am Post subject: |
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| In an officetel, the place where you cook your food is also the place where your clothes hang to dry. |
I never experienced that in the officetel I had. I regularly cooked, and I hung the clothes to dry near the windows. No food smells. |
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Bollocks
Joined: 12 Feb 2009
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| Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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| There never were smells? Or you never noticed smells? |
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Son Deureo!
Joined: 30 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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The laundry rack issue seems like an awfully small thing to go to the mat with your boss over. You can buy a folding rack for less than W20k and put it wherever you want. However, if you're that particular about the amenities in your apartment, put down 5 mil key money for your own apartment, and get a housing allowance from your next employer.
There are a bunch of ASAP hogwon jobs advertised at Seoul Craig's List: http://seoul.craigslist.co.kr/jjj/ |
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Joe Boxer
Joined: 25 Dec 2007
Location: Bundang, South Korea
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| Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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| ttompatz wrote: |
You don't even have a valid labor board case unless there is a contract clause that requires the employer to give notice during your probationary period. If there is then their liability would be limited to pay in lieu of notice if inadequate notice was given.
Bottom line - under Korean labor law you are considered to be a probationary employee for the 1st six months. They can cut you loose for any/no reason during that time without notice. |
I wish people would stop giving this FALSE information!
Yes, you can be dismissed without notice, BUT NOT WITHOUT JUST CAUSE.
They don't have to give you 30 days notice, but they MUST have just cause, or else they can be sued for wrongful dismissal.
If a teacher wants to find out if there was just cause, they should talk to a labor attorney. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 9:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Joe Boxer wrote: |
| ttompatz wrote: |
You don't even have a valid labor board case unless there is a contract clause that requires the employer to give notice during your probationary period. If there is then their liability would be limited to pay in lieu of notice if inadequate notice was given.
Bottom line - under Korean labor law you are considered to be a probationary employee for the 1st six months. They can cut you loose for any/no reason during that time without notice. |
I wish people would stop giving this FALSE information!
Yes, you can be dismissed without notice, BUT NOT WITHOUT JUST CAUSE.
They don't have to give you 30 days notice, but they MUST have just cause, or else they can be sued for wrongful dismissal.
If a teacher wants to find out if there was just cause, they should talk to a labor attorney. |
True...however the just cause standard is apparently applied "less strictly" during the first three months And also there is no statue governing probation for that matter as well.
http://www.hrmasia.com/employment-law-asia/korea/49385/
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[Probationary period
Employers and employees may agree upon an initial probationary period in the employment agreement. Procedurally, during the first three months of the probationary period, no advance notice of termination is required. While there is no explicit exception to the onerous �just cause� standard for termination applicable under Korean law, in practice, the standard may be applied somewhat less strictly in practice during the first three months of the probationary period.
There is no fixed period for probation by statute. Generally a period of three to six months is adopted by company policy and/or provided in the employment agreement. |
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Bollocks
Joined: 12 Feb 2009
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| Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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The employer intends to give me a letter of release, and pass me off to someone else. He is not compelled or obligated to provide that letter. He could cancel my visa instead.
Filing a lawsuit would disincline him to play nicely.
If there is a law stating that I am owed X, and I can get a lawyer which will prove it, and can do that without jeopardizing my LoR, I am interested. Otherwise I must play nice.
Last edited by Bollocks on Sun Aug 12, 2012 4:05 am; edited 1 time in total |
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iggyb
Joined: 29 Oct 2003
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| Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 11:44 pm Post subject: |
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| I could be wrong, but I believe he has to give you a LOR if he is voiding your contract by firing you. Has to legally, that is... |
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Joe Boxer
Joined: 25 Dec 2007
Location: Bundang, South Korea
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| Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 2:08 am Post subject: |
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Troglodyte
Joined: 06 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 2:46 am Post subject: |
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| iggyb wrote: |
| I could be wrong, but I believe he has to give you a LOR if he is voiding your contract by firing you. Has to legally, that is... |
I've heard about that a lot recently. How does that work? Does this apply in all cases of being fired? Or are there certain situations when he must do this or when he isn't obligated to write the letter? Can this be used for a visa transfer at any time or only after you've worked a certain number of months? If employers are obligated to write a letter of termination and it's viewed as the equivalent of a letter of release (as far as visa transfers go) then it really opens a lot of doors for teachers who get fired. |
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