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Zulethe
Joined: 04 Jul 2008
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 Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 9:37 am Post subject: |
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As elitist as this may sound, deep in my heart I categorize "losers" according to their motivation for being in country.
I went to Korea because I wanted to be there not because I had to be there.
I consider "losers" as the vast majority of teachers who are only there to pay off their student loans.
The reason being is that these individuals, for the most part, could care less about Korean culture. Their behavior is reflective of this and they are the ones who we read about in the news papers.
They refuse to learn even rudimentary Korean and are most likely the ass clowns seen acting drunk in public and speaking English very loudly to ensure that the locals can understand them better. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 11:11 am Post subject: |
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| The definition of ' loser' seems to be getting more and more general to include rude people or 'people who don't like the same things I like.' The original definition, I believe, is someone who fails consistently at the things most people think are important in life. They can't seem to be able to 'settle down', they can't sustain long term relationships, they keep losing or quitting their jobs, they are constantly short of money etc... The first three are definitely quite prevalent in the TEFL community but they are also qualities that are becoming less and less the norm everywhere as time goes by. As for the last one, we all know it's possible to do pretty well here financially. |
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catman
Joined: 18 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 12:06 pm Post subject: |
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At the first hagwon I worked at I found at that the director had told the Korean co-techers that we were losers. 
Well she didn't actually say the word "loser" but said that we were all in Korea because we were unemployable back home. Nice gal though. |
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seala70
Joined: 13 Mar 2011
Location: Incheon
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| Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Zulethe wrote: |
As elitist as this may sound, deep in my heart I categorize "losers" according to their motivation for being in country.
I went to Korea because I wanted to be there not because I had to be there.
I consider "losers" as the vast majority of teachers who are only there to pay off their student loans.
The reason being is that these individuals, for the most part, could care less about Korean culture. Their behavior is reflective of this and they are the ones who we read about in the news papers.
They refuse to learn even rudimentary Korean and are most likely the ass clowns seen acting drunk in public and speaking English very loudly to ensure that the locals can understand them better. |
I think this guy is dead on. It's sad but quite true. |
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tideout
Joined: 12 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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| seala70 wrote: |
| Zulethe wrote: |
As elitist as this may sound, deep in my heart I categorize "losers" according to their motivation for being in country.
I went to Korea because I wanted to be there not because I had to be there.
I consider "losers" as the vast majority of teachers who are only there to pay off their student loans.
The reason being is that these individuals, for the most part, could care less about Korean culture. Their behavior is reflective of this and they are the ones who we read about in the news papers.
They refuse to learn even rudimentary Korean and are most likely the ass clowns seen acting drunk in public and speaking English very loudly to ensure that the locals can understand them better. |
I think this guy is dead on. It's sad but quite true. |
I hope you're both kidding on some level.
A person is a loser if they don't like Korean culture?
A person's a loser if they're paying off their loans in a more efficient way?
It's not my situation, but I think a person who's here to pay off their student loan(s) in a few years -freeing them up financially to do another job, try another degree route or see parts of the world they haven't been to etc.. - sounds like a pretty smart strategy to me.
If they can't wrap their heads around the more complex aspects of Korean culture like K-pop, I'd try not to hold it against them. |
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tideout
Joined: 12 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 3:10 pm Post subject: |
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RE:hiamnotcool
I couldn't agree more with you on "success" in the US. A number of people I know who are making good money and have all of the "trappings" often say they are envious of me with my passport and suitcase.
I had almost two decades of experience in a field that has changed over the years and is increasingly a place to burn out in or risk more in terms of personal safety.
Given the number of people in the States who've "played the game right", there are quite a few who've lost their house, had a heart attack, got screwed on a pension etc.....
Sometimes not playing at all is the best way to win.
| mike in brasil wrote: |
If you go to the Brazil chat room board for Dave's, you'll be hard pressed to find anyone pointing the finger accusing others of being losers. When I lived in Brazil, and I lived there for 8 years, meeting other foreigners teaching English was a rarity and brought ESLers together. Nobody went to Brasil because they aspired to be an English teacher, but teaching English rather was the way to make $$ to support our "brasil habit". The danger, sex and fun of living in Brasil had a binding affect on the people you met who were in the "same boat".
Korea is the opposite. Very few of us came here because we actually aspired to. It seems there is a certain embarassment connected to being here because most of us deep down inside know we'd rather be somewhere else.
Losers? Hell no. We are riding high! Just remember where we are in the world pecking order. Look at these sites. Most of us get more than enough $$, benefits and paid vacation. Why do we belittle that?
http://www.givingwhatwecan.org/resources/how-rich-you-are.php
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_average_world_income |
I totally agree and really like your post. I have to say I think some of the unhappiness in Korea is linked to people coming for "career" and "money" whatever those mean to people individually.
I worked in Latin America as well and will be glad to return to a place where people go to live more than to work. The animosity level's a tenth of what you find here. |
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Dodge7
Joined: 21 Oct 2011
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| Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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| northway wrote: |
| Dodge7 wrote: |
It seems Dinosaur hurt some fragile egos in here. I think his OP was spot on and I agree with it. I'm tied down here with a wife and kid so I can't do much about my situation at this time bc my wife has a great job that she couldn't get back in the States. But for the most part, yes, Korea seems to attract some disfigured, ugly, anti-social looking people--both men and women and they are certainly what I would consider rejects back home.
Sad but true. |
| Dodge7 wrote: |
Let me preface this by mentioning that I was a social drinker in the US, maybe getting "drunk" once every 3 months or so. Not too bad. And in between those 3 months, a sip of alcohol would never even touch my lips.
Fast forward to Korea...
I am now finding the need to drink almost every weekday night, mostly Monday through Friday (and mostly due to the fact that I feel trapped because my job sucks, I hate it, and I am engaged here and I know I will be here for the unforeseen future.) This week it's been every day (Mon.-Thurs. so far).
I'm to the point now that I don't even get a hangover. No headache; I wake up perfectly fresh and ready to go like nothing happened the night before.
How much am I drinking every night?
Maybe not as much as you may be thinking, or maybe so: 1 bottle of Soju and 1/2 a 40 ounce bottle of cass (so-mek).
It usually takes me three or four glasses of so-mek to down the bottle of Soju. I'm probably drinking 2-3 shots at once with Cass mixed in to mask the taste.
I know I am developing a dependence on the stuff, and I am quite aware of the harmful affects.
I will quite soon, particularly after I get married in February, because I know how much my fiance hates it.
I guess the point to this thread is wondering if anyone else here has become a more heavy drinker since living here.
And is one bottle of Soju and half a 40 OZ. of Cass too much almost every night? |
http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/posting.php?mode=quote&p=2718059 |
And what's your point besides stalking me? I cut down drinking almost everyday to once a week, have a baby girl on the way, wife makes more money than I do, partied enough for two lifetimes while I was younger, lived it up and am content with my life as it stands now (even though I am not content where I am living)...I's call that WINNING.
You should know about my present life before you start talking about it prior. Moron. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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| viciousdinosaur wrote: |
| @Captain Corea - So, how many of the normal ones stayed a second year? I'd be interested to know. |
The drunk left after 8 months.
The other guys, and me, stayed for about ten years. Three got married. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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A person's a loser if they're paying off their loans in a more efficient way?
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I've always thought this 'I'm in Korea to pay off my loans' thing is a bit of a red herring. I remember people saying this back before 2008 when the economic situation was good. Surely when you leave university, if you know what you want to do next, and it doesn't involve TEFL, the best strategy would be start applying for jobs immediately in your own country while living off Mum and Dad and working any menial jobs you can. The sooner you get your foot on the corporate ladder the faster you'll pay off those loans, no?
I think it's probably more likely people come here for a mixture of paying off loans, the living abroad experience and not really knowing what to do next. The third one might make them seem a bit clueless and the second one soon loses its appeal when they see what Korea's like, so they end up emphasising the first one whenever someone asks them about their motivation. |
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tideout
Joined: 12 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
| Quote: |
A person's a loser if they're paying off their loans in a more efficient way?
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I've always thought this 'I'm in Korea to pay off my loans' thing is a bit of a red herring. I remember people saying this back before 2008 when the economic situation was good. Surely when you leave university, if you know what you want to do next, and it doesn't involve TEFL, the best strategy would be start applying for jobs immediately in your own country while living off Mum and Dad and working any menial jobs you can. The sooner you get your foot on the corporate ladder the faster you'll pay off those loans, no?
I think it's probably more likely people come here for a mixture of paying off loans, the living abroad experience and not really knowing what to do next. The third one might make them seem a bit clueless and the second one soon loses its appeal when they see what Korea's like, so they end up emphasising the first one whenever someone asks them about their motivation. |
Well, it all can be a bit subjective (not you, but the whole conversation). I think it's quite plausible after 2008 and some of the economic issues were well underway before 2008 (depending on where you lived etc.) That's a good chunk of the new crowd but I guess leaves the older generations of teachers open to ponder.
Maybe it's just an example you're giving but a lot of people have no interest in working for corporations. I had a long career before coming to Korea and never once worked for a corporation.
It's funny and I guess goes to your point but I have met a lot of people here who's financial "background" is a bit murky. Tons of credit card debt, nothing paid down on the student loans. In short, very irresponsible financially. They also tend to have had tons of interesting travel experience ....either ESL teachers or .....bankers. |
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transmogrifier
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
Location: Seoul, South Korea
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| Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Most of the losers I have "met" in Korea have been on this board. |
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austrian123
Joined: 15 Oct 2010
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| Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Nobody would admit that they are a loser. So for the OP to ask this question and expect anyone to say yes is funny. Based on conversations I have had with native Koreans they all tend to agree that E2 visa holders come to Korea because they cant find jobs at home. There is also the perception that foreign guys come to Korea because its easier to score with girls here. Ive also talked with many foreigners here who have admitted to me in their moments of least resistence that they feel directionless about life. Now do I personally think all of this is true? I would say generally speaking yes. I dont think any foreigner would come to Korea if they could land a good job or get decent girls back home. Im sorry to say Korea isnt that great of a country to live in. Why anyone would want to come here to teach english is beyond me....unless of course you cant make it back home. But everyone needs to understand that this not just an issue of foreigners coming to Korea....the issue is why. The answer is....thats life. In life there winners and losers. Not everyone can succeed. If that was the case everyone would be a doctor or making over 100 grand a year. For those that dont make the cut in western society....coming to Korea is the best option they have. |
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fermentation
Joined: 22 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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| When we pass each other in the street or meet up in random situations like in a bar or on the subway (or on Dave's), the impulse to puff up and spew "I'm better than you" or I'm better than this" manifests itself. |
Interesting observation. I kind of noticed it myself.
| transmogrifier wrote: |
| Most of the losers I have "met" in Korea have been on this board. |
Interesting. |
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krnpowr
Joined: 08 Dec 2011
Location: Midwest, USA
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| Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 5:50 pm Post subject: Re: Do you think we are losers? |
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| viciousdinosaur wrote: |
Do you think we are losers? The Korean media certainly portrays us that way and schools treat us that way, and to be honest I also see us that way.
The majority of people I see here in Korea are round pegs. The anti-social, the socially awkward, the ugly, the failures, the lazy, the directionless, the hopeless, the drifting, the broken...most the people who come to Korea would be unemployable back home.
When I do see "normal" people come here (good-looking, smart, sociable) they don't stay long, like they just got lost on their way to Thailand.
So, we have a bad rep in Korea, but really, don't we deserve it? If we look in the mirror for a second, aren't we really who they say we are?
Let's debate. Put your two cents in here. |
LMAO! This literally has to be the most scathing self-indictment I have ever read. Even with my negative view of many NETs, I wouldn't say anything nearly this abrasive. But in reality, you're clearly a troll merely attempting to conjure up vitriol and self-hate- nothing more, nothing less. |
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viciousdinosaur
Joined: 30 Apr 2012
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| Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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| austrian123 wrote: |
| Nobody would admit that they are a loser. So for the OP to ask this question and expect anyone to say yes is funny. Based on conversations I have had with native Koreans they all tend to agree that E2 visa holders come to Korea because they cant find jobs at home. There is also the perception that foreign guys come to Korea because its easier to score with girls here. Ive also talked with many foreigners here who have admitted to me in their moments of least resistence that they feel directionless about life. Now do I personally think all of this is true? I would say generally speaking yes. I dont think any foreigner would come to Korea if they could land a good job or get decent girls back home. Im sorry to say Korea isnt that great of a country to live in. Why anyone would want to come here to teach english is beyond me....unless of course you cant make it back home. But everyone needs to understand that this not just an issue of foreigners coming to Korea....the issue is why. The answer is....thats life. In life there winners and losers. Not everyone can succeed. If that was the case everyone would be a doctor or making over 100 grand a year. For those that dont make the cut in western society....coming to Korea is the best option they have. |
Well, you say no one would admit they're a loser, but then explain how we are losers.
But yeah I know of course, no one is going to say that they personally are a loser. But that's not what I'm asking. I am asking if "we" are losers, as in, you take all of us as a whole, do we represent the best our countries have to offer? Are we the elite? Are we the winners? No, we aren't, are we? We are at best the mediocre. We might think we're so great because we have a university degree, but really, in this day and age, they hand those things out to anyone willing to fork up 30 grand. |
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