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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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 Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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| some waygug-in wrote: |
This whole thread is already a huge derailment.
Where is the OP in all these discussions?
I'm beginning to think this is just another troll thread.
But if it makes you two feel better, I withdraw my previous statement.
and I replace it with this:
FT's complaints are not viewed in the same manner, nor are they treated in the same manner as those made by Koreans.
And I add my sincere and humble apology. |
Now was that so hard to do? 
No need to apologize either, just avoiding stupid exagerations will get your point across far better and generate far less blowback thereby allowing for actual discussion to take place. If of course that is what you want out of posting here. |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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I just didn't understand why anyone would have been offended by the first
statement. It was supposed to be a bit tongue-in-cheek.
Sheesk. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="YTMND"]
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2. Has an E2 visa teacher ever won?
==> Yes, I have more than thirty cases. |
Were those in the 30 cases all foreigners? Were any of them foreigners?
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They would ALL HAVE to be foreigners. Korean citizens don't require visas to teach. And can't get E-2's anyway.
E-2 is a language teaching visa for foreigners. |
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Joe Boxer
Joined: 25 Dec 2007
Location: Bundang, South Korea
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| Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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| YTMND wrote: |
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| Even for a foreign teacher who just finished one month and was dismissed |
This indicates the person doesn't understand the premise. After 1 month, if you get a notice of termination, you still have 1 more month. So, the minimum would be 2 months. |
YTMND, are you serious???
We already established that a teacher with less than 6 months' experience can be fired without notice anytime.
That much everyone agrees on.
Oh man.
| YTMND wrote: |
| Quote: |
2. Has an E2 visa teacher ever won?
==> Yes, I have more than thirty cases. |
Were those in the 30 cases all foreigners? Were any of them foreigners? |
| YTMND wrote: |
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3. Has an E2 visa teacher with less than 6-months sevice ever won?
Yes, I have won such cases a lot. |
Same comment and question as above. |
Haha, ok, then same laughing reply as above, too. Because there are only seven countries from which citizens are eligible for E2 visa.
Korea isn't one of them.
| YTMND wrote: |
Which case of yours is closest to an E2 visa holder who works for a school, is fired, fully paid for their work, and given a release letter?
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I told you that I (now) have a case file that shows the above. If you can't accept my word, then I told you how you can view the case file. And no, I'm not scanning parts of it and posting it.
| YTMND wrote: |
| ...I am curious of not only the school's stance but also the courts stance why they chose 10,000. |
Do you mean 10 million?
It was the amount suggested, to the court, by the labor attorney.
YTMND...
I'm only replying to you in the off-chance that there are other teachers that are confused as well.
I'm starting to think that you might be the only one, though.
If you ever get terminated due to the hockey helmet your wear to school everyday, don't bother contacting a labor attorney.
Because, well, in that case the school would have just cause. |
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YTMND
Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!
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| Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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They would ALL HAVE to be foreigners. Korean citizens don't require visas to teach. And can't get E-2's anyway.
E-2 is a language teaching visa for foreigners. |
I am not asking based on the literal reading of the question. Since I can't verify if the person giving the information has answered recognizing I mentioned E2 or not, the point is that I want to see one on an E2.
Saying 30 and not providing 1 detailed case doesn't mean anything. It's like screaming louder. The facts are not more true because there are 30 cases.
If there was 1 case, why haven't we heard about the details?
If there are actually 30 cases, that is even more bizarre we haven't heard of any of them.
So, I am trying to confirm if there is one case dealing with an E2 visa holder.
Don't worry TheUrbanMyth, you don't have to educate me on the definition of E2. I already know it. Look at where my question is directed at.
I WANT TO SEE DETAILS OF ONE CASE WHERE AN E2 VISA HOLDER WAS PAID IN FULL, FIRED, AND THEN GIVEN A LETTER OF RELEASE AND THEY SUED THE SCHOOL AND GOT EXTRA MONEY.
*****PLEASE, IF THE QUESTION IS NOT DIRECTED AT YOU, THEN DON'T ANSWER MY QUESTION. SOMETIMES I SHORTEN THE QUESTION OUT OF CONTEXT BECAUSE THE PERSON BEING ASKED ALREADY KNOWS. IF I HAVE TO KEEP DEFINING EVERYTHING IN MY QUESTION TO NEW PEOPLE THEN YOU WILL GET A LONG WINDED RESPONSE LIKE THIS. SO, AUDIENCE MEMBERS, SIT BACK AND WATCH THE CONVERSATION BETWEEN ME AND JOE BOXER, GET THE POPCORN OUT*****
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| We already established that a teacher with less than 6 months' experience can be fired without notice anytime. |
That isn't a big part of my pursuit here, I don't want to argue whether it is anytime or 2 months minimum. If we were to have this debate, I would be asking you if that meant they could dismiss you when you get off the plane. And then I would be replied with, "sure", and then I would say then what, and then people would say "D10", and then I would say, "ok, so can they sue?" Well yea, but will they get anything? And then we are back to the main agenda, firing with "just cause" and then suing and getting money beyond what is owed for working. If you got off the plane, did no work, then you don't need to be compensated for work. Any suit would fall into the same parameters as my question, getting money above and beyond what was owed before the firing.
Yes, oh man. I didn't want to have to type all that out. Let's just get to the main objective here, shall we?
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Because there are only seven countries from which citizens are eligible for E2 visa.
Korea isn't one of them. |
Then you aren't limited to 0,1,......29 cases. You got 30 to select from.
PICK ONE, SHOW US THE DETAILS. I AM WAITING.
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| I told you that I (now) have a case file that shows the above. If you can't accept my word, then I told you how you can view the case file. And no, I'm not scanning parts of it and posting it. |
You now have a case file that you assert pertains to you? Hmm, did your mom lock it up in the cellar wall?
If I had a case file where I could get more money owed after a school fired me, I'd have that puppy framed and hanging on my wall.
I am not in Korea, so I can't meet you in person. You expect us to fly to Korea. Why won't you copy it and put it online? If you are trying to help people, I find it strange to see all these limitations you are placing on 1/30 possible cases.
What about the other 29, is there one you can share?
So far, you haven't provided us with any proof. You have only asserted to having something.
I have "just cause" to doubt you. Put up or shut up. If you can't pick one of the 30 to detail out, then perhaps they don't really exist.
Where is the proof?
Last edited by YTMND on Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:56 am; edited 7 times in total |
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YTMND
Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!
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| Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 10:13 pm Post subject: |
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BEFORE ANYONE INVESTS MONEY AND HIRES AN ATTORNEY, AS WELL AS PUT IN THE TIME TO GO THROUGH WITH A COURT CASE AND PAY FOR STAYING IN KOREA FOR THAT TIME, MAKE SURE YOU KNOW ABOUT 1 COURT CASE THAT WON IN YOUR FAVOR. OTHERWISE, THERE MIGHT NOT BE PRECEDENT AND YOU MIGHT NOT BE ABLE TO COLLECT EVEN IF YOU ESTABLISHED ONE AND WON YOUR CASE.
THIS PERSON IS CLAIMING 30 CASES ARE OUT THERE, AND THEY WILL ONLY SHARE INFORMATION ABOUT ONE OF THEM IF YOU ARE IN KOREA. THEY WILL NOT SHARE IT ONLINE WHICH WOULD BE RATHER HELPFUL FOR THE COMMUNITY OF TEACHERS THAT MIGHT FALL VICTIM TO THIS LACK OF "JUST CAUSE" CLAIM. |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 1:06 am Post subject: |
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| Refresh my memory: isn't the original posting about something that allegedly happened at a public school, not a hagweon? |
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YTMND
Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!
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| Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 2:09 am Post subject: |
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| CentralCali wrote: |
| Refresh my memory: isn't the original posting about something that allegedly happened at a public school, not a hagweon? |
Well, in that case, the earth can revolve the other way, E2 visa holders can open up shop willy nilly, and this is our backdoor to double dipping collecting on one school for firing with questionable (at best) "just cause" while working for a new school.
I take back what I said. Carpe Diem!!!! |
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schwa
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Location: Yap
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| Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 5:20 am Post subject: |
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Relax, ytmnd, you're going to give yourself an aneurism.
Isnt there something more fun to do over there in China than hounding away at this stupid thread? |
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Joe Boxer
Joined: 25 Dec 2007
Location: Bundang, South Korea
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| Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 9:28 am Post subject: |
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Well, I was hoping that some of what I've said could be useful to foreign teachers that are in difficulty, but I can't imagine anyone wading through this thread (besides the few of us that have already invested so much time).
ttompatz: A lot of people go to you for advice regarding all aspects of working in Korea. Would you at least say that some of what I've said in this thread would affect the advice you'll give in the future in regards to termination?
Take it easy everyone. Especially you, YTMND. By the way, a buddy of mine showed me *this* webpage about 6 years ago. I think you'll like it:
http://yourethemannowdog.com/ |
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YTMND
Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!
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| Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 9:43 am Post subject: |
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I see it has gotten to the stage where you made a claim, been asked to prove it and back it up, and you can't so you are shifting the posts to things that don't relate to the conversation.
My comments still stand, and I have yet to see 1 case representing what you claimed. Ttompatz also asked to see one earlier. If you or someone else doesn't provide one then this thread has run its course. |
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YTMND
Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!
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| Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 9:59 am Post subject: |
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| I can't imagine anyone wading through this thread (besides the few of us that have already invested so much time). |
If the essential details of 1 case was posted online and linked on the first page, then no one would have to wade through anything.
Much to the contrary, now we must wade through the internet and find a case or gamble that we will win in court without any supporting evidence.
It's interesting to see people say, "research it on your own" and then later claim "wading through threads" will never happen.
Which is it? Wade or research? |
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ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
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| Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Joe Boxer wrote: |
| ttompatz: A lot of people go to you for advice regarding all aspects of working in Korea. Would you at least say that some of what I've said in this thread would affect the advice you'll give in the future in regards to termination? |
Mostly, no but a caveat in the last paragraph.
Over a period of more than a decade and 1st hand experience in close to 1000 tribunals and hearings I have NEVER seen a case like this where the employee would have gotten anything other than a couple of wasted afternoons trooping down to the local labor office.
If anyone can point to a documented case (labor tribunal case file number or court case file number and court would be sufficient) in Korea then I may change my mind and give different advice or assistance.
In different circumstances (11th month terminations, terminations without proper cause and notice for employees who have been working for more than 6 months, etc... ) then YES, my advice would certainly be different, there are remedies and employees can and do win.
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