Korean Job Discussion Forums

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[Captain Corea]

[Steelrails]

So what about the children of American citizens who are born overseas, live overseas, whose parents pay taxes to, say, the Korean government. Should they be denied citizenship? Are they leeches? It's tricky to work out.

Also, they still have to get the grades to get in. Then they have to pay pay for things.

On the other hand, would they qualify for student loans? (I'm not sure, does anyone know?) If not they might actually be more of a benefit because they'll pay upfront and not drive up our nation's student loan debt.

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[jeronimoski]

"In all colleges in the United states, international students pay out-of-state tuition. Out-of-State tuition paid by people who are not residents of that state. It is usually double the amount paid by residents. American citizens from other states pay out-of-state tuition for one semester and then after they live in that state for several months, they establish residency and are eligible for in-state tuition.

International students are not so lucky however. You cannot get in-state tuition even if you live in the state for years because you're not a US citizen or permanent resident."

I just checked about 12 different state regulations for residency status. If you have US citizenship, you can gain residency in a state if you reside there for 12 calendar months prior to going to school. In SOME cases, you may need to hold a job in that state prior to attending school.

Do you have a statistic that shows that ONLY weathy Korean parents are going the tourist baby route? And do you have a statistic that says that weathy Korean parents who take advatage of the passport baby loophole are honest people who would never sink low enough to take advantage of other public (financial) benefits that come with their child having US citizenship? If they are taking advantage of the system in the first place, then why would they stop there? Would they find that having a tourist baby has brought then spiritual enlightenment? They now become honest people? Why go through all that trouble to fly to the US to have a passport baby? There have to be benefits, right?


I have listed many benefits that these people receive. You keep saying that no one would sink low enough to take advantage of any of them. Then why go through with any of it?


1. A Citizen Can Vote
A citizen has the right to vote for elected officials at the federal, state and local levels who shape the policy of the government. Certain countries, including Ireland and the United Kingdom, recognize "dual citizenship" permitting naturalized U.S. citizens to maintain their citizenship of birth and original passport.

2.
Citizens can leave the US and live in another country for as long as they want, yet still come back at any time. Travel may be easier for US citizens in certain countries with visa waivers for Americans. And citizens receive US embassy protection abroad.

3. Citizens Can Bring More Relatives From Abroad, More Quickly
Citizens can petition for a wider variety of family members to come to the US as permanent residents. They also have much shorter waiting times for green cards, and no limits.

4. Citizens Cannot be Deported
Most of us never expect to commit a crime, but if we are the victims of circumstance, in the wrong place at the wrong time, as citizens, we cannot be deported. We also don't need to worry about a lost green card or too-long stay outside the US preventing us from re-entering.

5. Citizens Can Retire Abroad With Full Social Security Benefits
Citizens who retire abroad get all their Social Security benefits. Green card holders only get half of the benefits they earned.

6. Citizens are Entitled to More Public Benefits
Citizens are eligible for more public benefits, including Supplemental Security Income (SSI) and Food Stamps, as well as certain academic scholarships and financial aid.

7. A US Citizen Can Hold Office and Have More Job Opportunities
Only a citizen has the right to hold an elected position in most city, state or federal offices. Many federal, state and city jobs also require citizenship.

8. Adopted or Natural Children Under 18 May be Naturalized Automatically
Depending on the circumstances, children born abroad, who are under 18 years of age and unmarried may be able to naturalize automatically when a parent does so.

9. Citizens Have More Financial and Tax Benefits
Citizens often receive approval on loans andmortgages more easily, and/or they get better rates, because the lender knows there is less chance they will defect. Citizens are often subject to fewer restrictions on estate taxes as well.

The child now has free access in and out of the US without paying for a visa.
They also get access to Social Security benefits if they work for only 10 years in the US. They can also sponsor his/her future husband/wife and children to obtain permanent status in the US.


Again, does being wealthy automatically say that someone would never take advantage of the system?

Look. If someone came to the US to work/study for a few years and had a child in the US, then so be it. I have no problem with that. But if people are intentionally taking advantage of the system by flying to the US to have a child in order to get US citizenship (and the benefits that they receive), then this is where I draw the line.

I will say it again but use a different scenario. Any child born in South Korea is automatically a Korean citizen. The city of Seoul has a VERY cheap university tuition plan for in-city residents. You pay Seoul rate tuition fees as long as you live in the city limits for at least 12 months and are a Korean citizen. Let's say that Chinese mothers are flying to Seoul to have their babies. After having the baby, they fly back home. Once the child reaches the age of 18, he/she moves to Seoul, lives with a relative for a year, holds down a simple job (while practicing Korean), brushes up his/her Korean language skills, and then enters the university. According to the law, that child will receive the in-city tuition rate. Do you think this would go over well with the Korean population? All hell would break loose. The government offices would be ransacked, Koreans would be letting off fire extinguishers at state politicians, Hongdae would be a sea of protesters buring Chinese flags, and mayhem would basically erupt.

But yet these Koreans and other non-US citizens think it is ok to take advantage of another government's system?

[ttompatz]

And your status in Korea is???? not an illegal migrant are you...?
A "green card holder (E2 visa)??
Claiming your "rights" and "entitlements? (you won't be leaving your (Korean) pension behind or canceling your NHIC medical any time soon will you?)
Perhaps an economic refugee taking advantage of this host country based on nothing more than your place of birth (native speaker) and pretty blue passport.
Perhaps you are escaping a war torn country where your "rights" are being eroded by your own government.

What makes you think YOUR citizenship in the US is any more valuable to the US (since you left and won't be paying US taxes on your foreign earned income) than someone else who was born in the US and whose parents aren't US citizens already?

What makes you think they (the anchor babies) won't return as adults and claim their rights (and duties) as US citizens or more likely renounce their worthless US citizenship?

You keep claiming crap as though they were not "proper citizens" or they were "taking advantage" of something?

What makes you any different from them?

Oh, and just to validate my statement of worthless US citizenship:

AFP � Wed, 15 Aug, 2012 8:40 AM EDT
Asian economies 'to top richest list by 2050'
Singapore, Hong Kong, Taiwan and South Korea are projected to be the world's richest economies on a per capita basis by 2050 as the region's rapid growth boosts wealth creation.

It wasn't that long ago that people here (primarily Americans) were talking about marrying a Korean just for a visa... my, how the tables have turned....

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[jeronimoski]

[ttompatz]

My point is that their rights as a citizen as well as their duties and obligations as a citizen are no different than yours.

How they got it is no different than how you got yours (being born in the right place at the right time).

Perhaps the US should switch to Jus soli rather than Jus sanguinis and simply cancel the 14th amendment and anyone who has a claim to citizenship based on it.

Might as well cancel the 1st and 5th amendments as well (just as much justification for it - people take advantage of those 2 amendments just as or more often than the 14th).

You keep arguing that babies unborn will somehow disadvantage the US taxpayer... You point to things that citizens get that foreigners don't but you fail to point out the benefits of those same "citizens" in the US to the US.

Again, brings the argument around to how is their citizenship any less valuable to the US than yours is. They don't get the economic gains without the obligations. If they meet the obligations, how are they any different than any other American; yourself included?

If they remain abroad, how are they any different than any other American expat living and working off-shore on the "local economy" (as compared to an international transfer within an American company and exporting their wages from the US (brain drain and economic drain)).

How are YOU somehow any different than they are?

.

[radcon]

[ttompatz]

[northway]

If we were talking about Canada, where there actually is a huge difference in tuition for international students and domestic students (regardless of province), then there would be a lot more legitimacy to the tuition argument. As is, the difference between tuition for international students and domestic students in the States is generally marginal. The in-state argument has some merit, but establishing residency in a given state requires time (and money), so it's not as if anyone is skimping out on contributing to the pot.

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[davai!]

[MegaMind]

In other news.... "Illegal Immigrants Line Up by Thousands for Deportation Deferrals".

Why are they so eager?

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/16/us/illegal-immigrants-line-up-for-deportation-deferrals.html

[jeronimoski]