Korean Job Discussion Forums

iggyb · Joined: 29 Oct 2003

On my qualifications:

I'm a fully licensed teacher in English (secondary schools) and ESL (K-12) in Georgia and Tennessee in the US. My MA is in Teaching (English) and my BA is in English with the TESOL coursework necessary for the ESL license. (I also did 1 year of a 2 year MA in English Literature before I quit to gain some experience overseas the first time I went to Korea --- long ago...) --- Almost all of my teaching experience has been in Korea, though, except 1 year of high school ESOL in the US.

On International Schools

I don't remember spotting ads for International Schools here at Dave's Korea or International job boards and not right now in looking at the China board here.

Like someone else wrote above, the salary range in Korea is fairly tight. At least tighter than what I'm seeing looking at the China job board for the first time. Big range in salaries and benefits from my initial look and in similar looking jobs.

I probably have to remember China is a much bigger country than Korea, too...

Anyway, from what little I've checked in the past, I thought IS jobs were primarily supplied through orgs/recruiters like http://www.iss.edu/

or similar sites that require certification in home nations and advertise for multiple subjects - like math, chemistry, social studies - and who mean straight English Language Arts jobs when they write English Teachers - and will specific ESL/EFL if they mean language teacher.

Recently I found this site
http://www.seekteachers.com/jobs.asp?grade_id=510
Which reminds me I'm stupid.

I wrote yesterday how none of the jobs I'm seeing at Dave's China board jump out at me. I was too tired to remember -- when I found seekteachers a month ago, I had still had East Asia crossed off my list and had ignored the jobs in China it has - but most of those jobs are for IS and have signficantly higher salaries.

If you look, those ads are for 26000 CNY or $4,000 US per month.

They ads also mention what I'm assuming are specific curriculum systems in the UK or maybe unique to international schools. Terms I have no clue about, because we don't use them in public schools in the US.

The ads there match what little I heard years ago by a few teachers in the US who had spent some time in IS in Central and South America: Even in poorer nations, the salaries were still better than average for public school jobs in the US and were similar to IS across nations.

In those jobs in Central and South America, they were teaching mostly kids from rich native families and maybe a few foreigners. From what I remember, they said their students were better than the average class in American public schools in Georgia. They didn't talk about them like I talk about the snots I taught in that hakwon in Korea who had returned from living abroad. (And I liked Korean kids in other hakwons and public schools I taught. I didn't find those classes terribly different from my experience in the US as a teacher or student. I did find the Returnee kids to be somewhat different.)

Now that I've opened up China as a possibility, I'll have to go back to seekteachers and look, but for the most part, the job ads I see right now are for a spring semester start date - which doesn't work for me right now.

And, yes, one reason I didn't consider the Atlanta Dec. job fair was because those jobs are for the following school year (in August). Who knows -- if I do decide to head back overseas for good long time (3-10 years), maybe I could work it out to come back home in December and go to the fair to secure a job for the following August...

Right now, I'm still in the running for a handful of good paying jobs in the ME for college institutes that seem to be for prepping recent high school grads for university study --- because is seems most subjects in univ. in these nations are taught in English (not Arabic)...

I also just remembered -- one reason I moved away from the seekteachers site was that they want you to have a complete application package uploaded before they will consider you - and the package includes a FBI CBC - which I applied for about 3 weeks ago but haven't gotten yet.

I do have enough savings to pay for airfare and fund a job search in country if it comes to that -- but I'd much prefer not to.

Anyway - you can get an idea about IS salaries in China and elsewhere from those ads and looking at other sites that recruit specifically for IS...

ttompatz · Joined: 05 Sep 2005 Location: Kwangju, South Korea

I didn't bother to look back through the thread but for I.S. positions you have to get out of EFL/ESL mode. They don't post/recruit/etc on EFL boards.

http://www.ibo.org - pick a country and go directly to the school's websites (the IBO itself doesn't recruit teachers).
Do country specific searches (google) for international schools as well.
http://www.tes.co.uk/jobs - pick a region/country and work out from there.
http://www.searchassociates.com/ - search associates (but you will have to pay to register for the site) or try one of their job fairs http://www.searchassociates.com/job-fairs/Default.aspx .

There are others as well.

A large part of the planet uses the UK system (in their international schools) so if you are looking at IS jobs you may want to spent a bit of time to get up to speed on the terms.

.

iggyb · Joined: 29 Oct 2003

Thanks much.

I just went through the process of applying for the ISS servies - which requires roughly $200 but is a long established placement agency. I believe they don't process the fee until they have reviewed your package - including contacting 2 previous supervisors and receiving recommendation forms from them. - And they are the ones who hold the recruitment fair in Atlanta I've a couple of teachers have told me about.

They strongly want one of the references to be your current/last school.

That poses a problem with my last Korean school. I know the principle transferred and has limited English ability. The VP had no English ability (that she ever demonstrated with even a Hello.) My primary CT was about 26 and didn't like the idea of being in contact with an American school or place like this.

She ignored the 1 contact she got from a public school in the US I applied to while still in Korea. She told me she only wanted to teach ESL that one year, because she'd been teaching for 3 as a homeroom teacher and wanted to "take a break" - which confirmed what I had already guessed...

This ISS place might not process my application without it.

SeekTeachers also places for many international schools, but they might not process until I get the CBC and upload it...

I'll check the other sites.

I'm learning a lot about Key Stage 1 and 2 and IGCSE A' Level English.....

....I wish life were more simple....

I know I already had one placement agency turn me down initially because they thought Certification on my resume meant some time of CELTA or online TESOL 120 quicky course....

seansmith · Joined: 31 Aug 2010

iggyb:

ttompatz's advice is correct and the websites he provides are all international schools focused. There is another website that is the international school cousin of Dave's, and it's called the International School Review. You need to pay $29 to join, if I remember correctly. This lists international schools around the world and has teachers' reviews of these schools. It also has forums, but just a few to cover the international teaching scene, unlike Dave's which has forums for many countries. Like Dave's, some people who have posted are bitter and are venting. Still, if there are numerous venters about one school, and that school gives you an offer, then be suspicious but don't immediately turn it down either. Do a more thorough investigation by among other things, asking to speak to teachers currently there.

Okay, so you're certified. Plus, your blend of ESL education and English Lit. education makes you desirable for international schools as they can put you in EFL, EAP, and English Lit. courses/departments. You're a little light on experience but that shouldn't hurt you too much. Now about this letter. You should have obtained it when you left, but that's water under the bridge. You need to write it yourself and have one of your previous employers read it, understand what's in it, and then sign it. This is not uncommon in Korea, with employers of varying English ability. The chair of my department at my Korean uni was highly proficient in English, but I wrote mine anyway as a) it takes up his time and b) I wanted a professional, grammatically perfect resume that marketed me as much as possible. I approached him with it and asked "Do you agree with everything in this letter?" He read it, said yes, and signed it within 2 minutes. I suppose in your case you would need a translator. It's a hassle but you don't want your career derailed because if this.

In the meantime there are other reasonable options out there and with your education background you should be able to do better than hogwan type jobs. There is an increasing demand for private, international (read non-Chinese style, non-Chinese curriculum) education. Shanghai parents are just as education obsessed as Korean parents. Now that more of them have money, the whole private education monster is rearing it's ugly head in Shanghai. Except it's not ugly for us. Some private schools that do hire mid-year are the Sino-British College and the CIC (Cambridge International Centre). The first teachers rich, 'under-achieving', highly privileged Chinese while the second teaches the Chinese academic elite. Another place that would look at you would be the Xian-Jiatong Liverpool University in Suzhou (but I find Suzhou boring). Try approaching these schools.

I can't stress enough that being here on the ground makes a big difference. As most international schools in Shanghai and the rest of China start the school year Monday, you'll likely have to take something less than ideal when you get here. But then you can meet people, make contacts, and get the lay of the land. Most of the good jobs are offered 3 - 7 months in advance and if they can interview you face-to-face that's better.

byrddogs · Joined: 19 Jun 2009 Location: Shanghai

iggyb · Joined: 29 Oct 2003

Thanks.

young_clinton · Joined: 09 Sep 2009

byrddogs · Joined: 19 Jun 2009 Location: Shanghai

young_clinton · Joined: 09 Sep 2009

byrddogs · Joined: 19 Jun 2009 Location: Shanghai

YTMND · Joined: 16 Jan 2012 Location: You're the man now dog!!

iggyb · Joined: 29 Oct 2003

Drove 11 hours to Chicago for a 15 minute interview and drove back.

Exhausted.

But I did get a job offer which I accepted. They still have to process the paperwork, but I should be fine, though I never count chickens before they hatch...this one is pecking through shell....

It's in the Middle East at a vocational college teaching recent high school grads who need to increase their English ability before going to university where most majors are apparently taught in English.

The deal came with housing - which some I was interviewing for didn't.

I'm pleased. If it were in a region where I knew my wife could be comfortable, I'd be ecstatic.

But I'm going to continue the process of applying for one of the big international school recruiting firms to keep my options open for next year...

Thanks to all who responded. It was a pretty good look at the global ESL industry in its different forms.

1 women interviewing in Chicago had just left an international school job in Greece. ---- Why in the world would anyone leave that!!

iggyb · Joined: 29 Oct 2003

Still waiting with no word on the visa to Abu Dhabi. Hate this part of the wait the most.

Just saw where a British-based international school in Korea pays 4.5 Won a month or just short of $4,000 US. Another American-based international school pays $37,000-45,000 US a year plus housing plus relocation and other bonuses...

After finally getting my FBI Criminal Background Check in, I was able to upload it and complete my profile in one of the worldwide recruiters for international schools and other jobs. Sent in some applications for positions in Thailand, Chile, and a couple other places - just in case this Abu Dhabi job falls through. --- Another lesson Korea taught me - both hakwons and public school programs...

The big placement firm in the US I had to pay money for that sends people to American-based international schools had very little still open. They say they do most recruiting through fairs - and most schools just began fall semester. There are no English or ESL jobs open in Georgia right now...

I would have to seriously consider returning to Korea for over $40,000 a year plus free housing.

I have a hunger for an adventure learning a new country and culture, and I prefer the weather in a tropical place like Thailand, but the comfort of knowing Korea already and that compensation package look pretty good....