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Why work at a Hokwon?
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Squire

Joined: 26 Sep 2010
Location: Jeollanam-do

Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:05 am Post subject:

SimonPark wrote:

Squire wrote:

I expect it is more like real teaching (in fact I'm sure it must be for most) and the lack of co-teacher can be a great thing (mine is nice, but awful at her job and really ruins classes I could be doing myself) but I don't think I could be tempted myself...

Your co-teacher is better than you. You just don't know Korean education techniques to know we're better than any foreign teacher. We work harder and longer and care about the teaching.

I expect the majority of trained Korean English teachers are better than untrained native speakers, and I've worked with some good ones, but for all her experience one of my current CTs does an awful job. You don't know because you don't work with her

SimonPark

Joined: 18 May 2009
Location: Saving Korea from Bad Teachers

Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:11 am Post subject:

Squire wrote:

SimonPark wrote:

Squire wrote:

Your co-teacher is better than you. You just don't know Korean education techniques to know we're better than any foreign teacher. We work harder and longer and care about the teaching.

Oh, I know. Trust me, I know.

Squire

Joined: 26 Sep 2010
Location: Jeollanam-do

Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:21 am Post subject:

SimonPark wrote:

Squire wrote:

SimonPark wrote:

Squire wrote:

Your co-teacher is better than you. You just don't know Korean education techniques to know we're better than any foreign teacher. We work harder and longer and care about the teaching.

Oh, I know. Trust me, I know.

Go back to Korean Sentry. Practically all foreign teachers here are just trying to a good job for their kids and are very well behaved and respectful. Look up the crime stats- we commit less crime than average Koreans. How about that?

SimonPark

Joined: 18 May 2009
Location: Saving Korea from Bad Teachers

Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:39 am Post subject:

Squire wrote:

SimonPark wrote:

Squire wrote:

SimonPark wrote:

Squire wrote:

Your co-teacher is better than you. You just don't know Korean education techniques to know we're better than any foreign teacher. We work harder and longer and care about the teaching.

Oh, I know. Trust me, I know.

The racist crime stats are made up. Turn on the news sometime and you'll see who commits the crime.

denverdeath

Joined: 21 May 2005
Location: Boo-sahn

Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:02 am Post subject:

SimonPark wrote:

Squire wrote:

SimonPark wrote:

Squire wrote:

Your co-teacher is better than you. You just don't know Korean education techniques to know we're better than any foreign teacher. We work harder and longer and care about the teaching.

Oh, I know. Trust me, I know.

I don't think you know. Not at all. I only stayed one year(of my 15+ yrs in Korea = I know, BIG DEAL!???!) at a middle school and would never go back to a Korean public school. Of the four Korean co-teachers I worked with at that school, only one was somewhat communicative in English. Even that one was usually doing simultaneous translation to the students while I taught, which annoyed the heck out of me, and was a detriment to the students' language acquisition. She sounded like a parrot squawking stuff out in Korean all the time - stuff that the majority of the students understood in English anyway. You may be right in some instances, but you'll be wrong in a lot more.

iggyb

Joined: 29 Oct 2003

Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:13 am Post subject:

Quote:

Oh, I know. Trust me, I know.

Trolling. Don't feed the bears.

lemak

Joined: 02 Jan 2011

Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:54 am Post subject:

SimonPark wrote:

Squire wrote:

Your co-teacher is better than you. You just don't know Korean education techniques to know we're better than any foreign teacher. We work harder and longer and care about the teaching.

"Harder and longer" does not equate to effective. I used to be able to hear my Korean co-teachers "teaching" through the wall in the next classroom, and could often count on one hand the number of English words they used in a class session on one hand. These weren't beginners. I'd pity the poor students who were often first or second year middle school students who were asking questions, or talking in English, yet being replied to by the teacher in Korean.
I've taught in four different countries, so have a decent frame of reference. In my experience, for the resources they have available to them Koreans are absolutely having their ass kicked by English.
My last semester's exam for my first year university students in China was a 10 to 15 minute spoken presentation about problems in their environment and how to solve them. They blew it out of the ballpark, and this is considered a third tier university. Meanwhile my friend teaching comparable aged students in a Korean "high ranking" university could barely muster a couple of complete and accurate sentences from his students.
Koreans are having a huge disservice done to them by local ESL teachers who can't even use communicative English.
I've spent a lot of time in China, and English was near non-existent here 10~15 years ago. These days it's becoming more and more ubiquitous, while for the most part in Korea it wallows. Expect China to surpass Korea in ESL education, IELTS scores etc. along with the economy and standard of living in the next couple of years. The ROK is a dinosaur across the board.

young_clinton

Joined: 09 Sep 2009

Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:37 pm Post subject:

iggyb wrote:

Quote:

MAXIMUM of 8 students per class

And you say you have several expats on staff? How many?

Ask them if 8 students per class is normal - if things were more crowded before.

Hakwons are a business. The more expats they hire, and the better the facilities they have, the more overhead they have. 8 is a little thin...

That would be a bit of a red flag.

Gorf

Joined: 25 Jun 2011

Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:37 pm Post subject:

Weigookin74 wrote:

Gorf wrote:

I worked at a hagwon for four months before giving up. Not sure why people actually take those jobs at all.

Vampiric hours, bosses and Korean moms that constantly second guess you and think you're the problem if little Kim doesn't do his homework, the lack of breaks and proper legal accountability and benefits and so many other things just make it a shill. Maybe you'll be able to push 5% more English into a few kids' heads than you would at a public school, but in the end, you're doing it at the cost of your own sanity and time.

I work for an after school program now. I teach for 4 hours a day, with hagwon-sized classes and I actually teach the kids, and they give me lots of energy and enthusiasm because they're not the kids that are ground down to a zombie thanks to the hagwon system lots of kids are put through. Sorry, but I feel like everyone who works a "regular" hagwon or public school job for 8 hours a day is a sucker.

Public schools in the provinces can accumulate raises. 3 Mil a month. What's an after school in Seoul? 2.2 a month? Couldn't afford that with this bad exchange rate.

Yeah but that's after 7-9 years of employment there. I live in the heart of Seoul and make 2.7 per month and I work less than 25 hours a week. That's not even close.

young_clinton

Joined: 09 Sep 2009

Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:49 pm Post subject:

SimonPark wrote:

Squire wrote:

Your co-teacher is better than you. You just don't know Korean education techniques to know we're better than any foreign teacher. We work harder and longer and care about the teaching.

Not necessarily better, just more experienced. My co-teacher was very experienced and capable but more interested in the way she felt the structure was supposed to be. Truly unfortunate.

wandrousmuse

Joined: 27 Feb 2012

Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 5:53 pm Post subject:

lemak wrote:

Hasn't this topic been done to death?

For what it's worth I personally far preferred my time in hagwons to public schools in Korea. But I was lucky enough to score 4 or 5 great ones with supportive bosses and only one crappy one.

The small classes were far more manageable and hence progress more noticeable. A lot of freedom to teach what I wanted.

More westernized environment unlike the public schools where it's really up to YOU to adapt to Korea(ns). In my hagwon experience other than the secretary usually everyone who worked there could speak fluent English, had lived or studied in the west. Made problem solving a bit more simplified.

Easier hours. Don't know who's taking these hagwon gigs that require 8 or 9 hours, but mine were always 6 hours max. Often more like 5 or 5.5. Always blocked together, therefore no real dead time. Take out the 10 minute breaks every hour and that's only something like 4.5 or 5 hours actual teaching a day. No deskwarming.

Sleep ins or time to do banking, shopping, doc visits, exploring etc in the morning. Earliest I ever started was 2pm. Latest I ever finished was 8.45 or 8.50pm.

Able to negotiate directly with the boss about things like pay rises, vacation time, changing textbooks, moving students to different classes, fixing broken TVs etc. rather than it going into some big monster government system. Of course it's not always approved, but at least you can talk directly with the guy able to make the decisions.

Anyhow, each to their own. This is just my take. There are a huge number of great hagwons out there. I think some people get burnt at one, or have never worked at one and just hear horror stories and assume that's what the whole private school system in Korea is like. It's not.

I'll be heading to Korea for the first time February - March 2013, and would prefer to start with a hagwon for most of the above-listed reasons. Even working eight exhausting hours appeals to me, since this is generally how I prefer to work (constantly busy with a few breaks rather than bored with many breaks). I also prefer working in the afternoon and evening, and I hear many hagwons offer split shifts, which appeals to me, too.

What hagwons have/do you work for, lemak, and did you use a recruiter to get these positions?

edwardcatflap

Joined: 22 Mar 2009

Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 6:10 pm Post subject:

Quote:

and I hear many hagwons offer split shifts, which appeals to me, too.

Are you kidding? I get the bit about keeping busy at work and all that but wanting to get up at 5.30 in the morning and finish work at 10?

NohopeSeriously

Joined: 17 Jan 2011
Location: The Christian Right-Wing Educational Republic of Korea

Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 6:41 am Post subject:

wandrousmuse wrote:

Working at a hagweon is the best way to accumulate better teaching experiences within a limited time period. And I love being busy too. Very Happy

mcloo7

Joined: 20 Aug 2012

Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:47 am Post subject:

What are the closest to daytime hours you can get working at a hagwon, and is it possible to be sure of those hours before you take the job? Also, is it good to use recruiters to get a hagwon job?

xihtug

Joined: 14 Sep 2012

Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 9:55 am Post subject:

Squire wrote:

Just a question so far -- do Hagwons not typically have co-teachers? How would you teach English if you do not speak Korean?

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