Korean Job Discussion Forums

iggyb · Joined: 29 Oct 2003

Inexperienced in my comment was tied to untrained -- meaning people who aren't marketable in places that have jobs and better conditions.

Why aren't all these people who come to Korea going to Italy or Greece or France or Japan or Australia or the like? Because they aren't marketable there.

The key to Korea is that it is an overseas job people who want some adventure can get despite their lack of experience or training - plus - they can make enough money to pay off student loans and/or build up some savings to fund moving to another country as their resume grows or when they go back home.

Next, I think VDs description of the level of danger in the hakwon industry might have matched reality around 1999 or 2000 but doesn't fit today.

The changes in immigration have changed things. Back then, about the only 2 options you had if you landed in a terrible hakwon were to go illegal or leave and wait for your visa to run out.

This week at Dave's, we have a thread with a guy who just got here and wants to know how to quit but get a new job, and people are telling him how easy it is. It isn't as easy as changing a job back home, but it is doable without too much trouble.

And the hakwon industry is more stable than it was during the IMF period when hakwons and chaebol were going bankrupt left and right.

Hakwons generally suck in terms of the job. The hours can be truly grinding. You still run the risk of landing in a truly terrible place you'll have to flee from.

But, there are plenty of them where the job will not outweigh the positive benefits you get. There are plenty of hakwon jobs that people will find worth it.

If the hakwon industry were as completely horrible as some are making it out to be, people wouldn't be coming every year.

I saw that happen the first go around in Korea. After the Korean Won and economy collapsed, and hakwons were going under and more were having to cheat workers to stay afloat, Korea's ESL reputation got so bad, the flow of people in country greatly dropped. You started seeing many more people with fake degrees.

Heck, it was the first time you started seeing people from Australia and New Zealand. Before, everybody you met was from the US or Canada because that was who the industry wanted. By 2000, things had gotten so bad, the hakwons had a hard time filling spots and had to broaden their search.

Today, the overall package Korea offers is still good enough for people who want to try life abroad, but have a weak resume, who can't afford to work for peanuts.

And this isn't even considering public school jobs....

byrddogs · Joined: 19 Jun 2009 Location: Shanghai

iggyb · Joined: 29 Oct 2003

Looking back, I see now VD was even warning to stay away from public school jobs too.

JustinC · Joined: 10 Mar 2012 Location: We Are The World!

PatrickGHBusan · Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 3:01 am Post subject:

viciousdinosaur · Joined: 30 Apr 2012

@ JustinC - You actually bothered to read all that?

@Patrick - You are truly a nut case and I have zero respect for you. To equate housing with a dental plan? Really? I mean how can someone with a BA have such a logic fail? Housing is a pretty big deal. That's why it comes third on Maslow's hierarchy of needs. Food, Clothing, Shelter...I don't know where the hell dental plan fits, but it ain't near the top.

Reality check. If you quit in this country, you lose your visa and must find a new master or have to leave within six months. You will be nickeled and dimed for as much as possible by your employer who will make your life hell until your final day. You will lose your home. If you have $5000 you can get a new one, but if not you must use what savings you have to live out of a Goshiwon. Any belongings you have you pretty much have to sell because there's no storage lockers in this country. This is the reality of Korea, which everyone who's ever worked here will surely acknowledge, but for some reason you want deny reality. I don't know. Maybe you are running a recruiting business and worried about people becoming wise to the game.

Legal recourse. Don't make me laugh. Oh crap...can't help myself....laughing.....lol....Legal recourse my butt. If you can actually manage to stay in the country long enough to see a court room, you are already guilty until proven innocent, and the judge will side with the Koreans 9/10 and you're out a lot more money for legal fees. Or you can get what happened to me when I tried to sue my school. The official just took my application and threw it in the trash in front of me and said "go home".

Welcome to Korea.

iggyb · Joined: 29 Oct 2003

Still way overblown. Just as your telling people to avoid public school jobs because there was downsizing this year.

How frequently do we read about people here caught in one of the bad hakwons who manage to land another job? How many of the people who come here asking advice who are pointed to the Labor Board sucessfully get money owed to them through it?

It would be nice if people caught in a difficult situation here would come back and let us know how things turned out...

There are plenty of people who remained in Korea even after falling into one of the bad hakwons. You can roll on the floor laughing as much as you please, but it is YOU who are distorting the reality in Korea.

iggyb · Joined: 29 Oct 2003

Talk about laughing out loud --- I just realized VD managed to turn free housing into an act of slavery and a reason NOT to come to Korea...

Over at this thread http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=222809 There are people explaining to a guy who just arrived in country how he can stand a good chance of quitting his new job in order to find one that gives better vacation days. And there are people telling how they did manage to quit in the middle of a contract without getting ripped off by their school.

Yes, without a doubt, I am fully aware that turning in a notice to quit a hakwon can lead to major trouble for the employee. But, obviously some people do it. Apparently YTMND has done it more than once.

This is slavery? This is why people who aren't telling people to avoid Korea are sick?

PatrickGHBusan · Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2012 3:30 am Post subject:

iggyb · Joined: 29 Oct 2003

Thinking about it some, and wishing not to keep feuding, because there is enough negativity at the forum here, I was thinking maybe a reason VD's perspective is skewed, in my opinion, is his fairly unique situation - compared to the average ESLer...

I think his opinion about the dangers within the hakwon and overall ESL industry might have fit the late 1990s but are out of whack for now. But after hearing him on why to avoid public school jobs too...

Maybe his concerns about his own personal prospects are coloring his views on the prospects of the type of expat ESLer Korea draws primarily.

In short, he's a long timer. That is a completely different situation to the average person thinking of coming over...

The bulk of the people who go to Korea only plan to be there a couple of years. Many don't stay for more than 1. More than a few in the hakwons don't make it to 1. I said earlier in this thread, I can't think of anybody I met who stayed in the ESL industry 5 years or more (at one stretch). Except a couple of real professors who I don't consider to be in the ESL industry.

I met a few long timers in Korea, but they had all moved on to other jobs or had started out as military contractors anyway.

The average ESLer knows he's going to leave relatively soon.

The long timer gets more invested. Accumulates more stuff.

The average ESLer comes to Korea in large part because he doesn't have experience or training to make him marketable elsewhere. Korea offers him opportunity to experience life abroad.

For the long timer - the situation is fundamentally different.

The long timer has far fewer opportunities than he does back home. He has to have higher qualifications - not lower - to make it to career-type jobs that provide security in Korea.

The F-series spousal visa has changed things for people married to a Korean. It doesn't give you a career, but it provides fundamentally more flexibility than an E-2.

In short, for people with solid qualifications, or people looking to spend a long time in a foreign country, Korea might not be your first or second or third or fourth choice....

AsianLatinaGirl · Joined: 19 Aug 2012

This is what a recruiter told me recently (since you don't have any teaching experience either) - If you don't have any professional teaching experience, you will have to teach at a private school for a year. Once you have one year of teaching experience, then you can apply to EPIK. She said EPIK was not accepting a Level 3. However, another recruiter said I can apply to EPIK. I have two bachelor's degrees and I'm working on my TEFL. Anyway, I would recommend teaching at a public school first.