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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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 Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 4:48 pm Post subject: |
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| viciousdinosaur wrote: |
Plus I've gotten good at teaching Koreans. China was challenging for me. They're different.
Think about it this way. If you were a young sapling, would you want to plant yourself in the middle of a field or the middle of a forest? |
How so are the Chinese different? I can understand the language barriers of course. Many of us know some basic Korean which helps. In China, most of us would be starting over. |
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viciousdinosaur
Joined: 30 Apr 2012
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| Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Weigookin74 wrote: |
| viciousdinosaur wrote: |
Plus I've gotten good at teaching Koreans. China was challenging for me. They're different.
Think about it this way. If you were a young sapling, would you want to plant yourself in the middle of a field or the middle of a forest? |
How so are the Chinese different? I can understand the language barriers of course. Many of us know some basic Korean which helps. In China, most of us would be starting over. |
That's why I only recommend that newbies go to China. First time out, you have nothing invested in Korea. Everyone chooses Korea because the starting pay is higher, but they aren't thinking long-term. Long-term you want to invest in a place that is growing and has higher earning potential in the future. People say Korea is great for first-timers. I disagree. I say it's a trap for first-timers. |
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Otherside
Joined: 06 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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| viciousdinosaur wrote: |
| Weigookin74 wrote: |
| viciousdinosaur wrote: |
Plus I've gotten good at teaching Koreans. China was challenging for me. They're different.
Think about it this way. If you were a young sapling, would you want to plant yourself in the middle of a field or the middle of a forest? |
How so are the Chinese different? I can understand the language barriers of course. Many of us know some basic Korean which helps. In China, most of us would be starting over. |
That's why I only recommend that newbies go to China. First time out, you have nothing invested in Korea. Everyone chooses Korea because the starting pay is higher, but they aren't thinking long-term. Long-term you want to invest in a place that is growing and has higher earning potential in the future. People say Korea is great for first-timers. I disagree. I say it's a trap for first-timers. |
Fair point. The thing is, most people only plan on teaching abroad for a year or 2, and chances are you'll bank a lot more in your first two years in Korea than you would in China while still learning the ropes. (remember for every sucker who takes a crapwon job in Korea earning 2.1, there's some sucker taking a job in China paying 4.5k RMB.) |
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ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
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| Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Otherside wrote: |
Fair point. The thing is, most people only plan on teaching abroad for a year or 2, and chances are you'll bank a lot more in your first two years in Korea than you would in China while still learning the ropes. (remember for every sucker who takes a crapwon job in Korea earning 2.1, there's some sucker taking a job in China paying 4.5k RMB.) |
I disagree with that unless someone is foolish enough to take a job at 4-5k RMB.
If you actually have the qualifications for an E2 then you can also get jobs in China at the 8-10k rmb + housing AND travel allowances / airfare (albeit usually on completion of the contract).
On 8k there in NO REASON that someone can't save close to US$1000/month unless the bright lights and expat executive lifestyle catch your eye.
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iggyb
Joined: 29 Oct 2003
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| Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 6:26 am Post subject: |
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Got the contact and contract from the ME job. There are items that - if this were Korea - I'd pass even at this late date - pass in a hurry:
The contract itself says in plain language that the institute or ministry of education can change it at any time in the future if they feel they need to and I have to live with it. I asked at the other forum if this were normal, and I was told it was, and beyond this particular group of institutes, and the one thing that even the disgruntaled former employee(s) at these institutes say is that they were always paid on time and the correct amount.
Next, they want you to pay your airfare over and it will be paid back if you make it past the 6-month probation. That would be enough to toss the contract if this were Korea, even at this late date...
Next, there are others who complain in general about how these government institutes have been managed --- but -- having been through Korea - and because my original plan was to teach in an American high school - I don't mind.
I've heard people complain about not getting paid overtime for school meetings and other things. If you teach in a public school in the US, you are a salaried employee. There are plenty of times where you have to stay after hours for meetings, parent conferences, or special events. They prefer much you make yourself available for coaching or sponsoring a club or at least attending a few events. And you frequently take your work home with you to grade or plan.
That is why so many burn out and pick a different career...
In Korea, meetings did bother me -- at hakwons where the number of in class teaching hours were huge and ground you down to your nub and where things were badly mismanaged. In public schools, I didn't mind the extra stuff. It broke through the boredom...
Anyway, it looks like I should be leaving in about a week - on my own dime. The big difference from when I jumped into hakwons despite some warnings --- I'll be paid a huge amount more. Nobody complains about being cheated out of pay there. And I have enough money in the bank to feel comfortable about possible worst case scenarios.
And I've gotten membership with a couple of recruiters that place people in international schools and other jobs around the world. January isn't that far away - and if this new job turns out to be a big bust, I should have a shot at finding an adequate job elsewhere that will also be an adventure... |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Sat Jun 13, 2015 9:00 am Post subject: |
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| ttompatz wrote: |
Please allow me to toss in my 20 won worth of free opinion.
China is now what Korea was 10 years ago (about the time of or just before the World Cup). It isn't quite what Korea was in the late 90s but not much farther along either.
Thailand at the entry level is not much better than it was 10 years ago. There are a few decent language centers, lots of dodgy ones and even more dodgy "agencies" that take care of providing teaching staff for those k-12 schools that have no clue but need to jump on the EFL/ESL bandwagon.
On the upside, for those who do hold something more than a generic BA and a "no-name" branded generic TEFL cert there are decent jobs to be had (my after tax remuneration package last year was about 1 million thb / 35m krw with net savings on the order of 22m krw).
Taiwan has some decent packages (88k twd/month (3.3m krw)+ benefits) for teachers with home country certification. Only a fool or a newbie would head there for jobs in the buxibans.
The remuneration package for the NET program in Hong Kong is in the same range as the government jobs in Taiwan.
Top end, private, international schools (in Asia) start off with remuneration packages in the US$40k range and peak out at about US$100k. The field is highly competitive at the top end and the work standards are HIGH.
Back to the entry level (BA and TEFL cert), there is decent money to be made in Vietnam ($2000/mo is not hard to find) with terms similar to what you find in your average Korean hagwan.
Throughout the ASEAN + 3 the demand for teachers will remain high for the foreseeable future (collectively about 150 thousand jobs openings per year).
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How would you rate it nowadays in 2015? |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sat Jun 13, 2015 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Taiwan has some decent packages (88k twd/month (3.3m krw)+ benefits) for teachers with home country certification. Only a fool or a newbie would head there for jobs in the buxibans.
The remuneration package for the NET program in Hong Kong is in the same range as the government jobs in Taiwan |
Are you saying here that the Hong Kong Net package pays around 3.3m a month plus benefits? Because if so, you're way out.
From the EDB website (Salary Range : HK$25,600 to 59,485 per month) = 3.5m to 8.4m |
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PRagic
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
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| Posted: Sat Jun 13, 2015 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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Haven't read through the thread as it's on the long side, but for what it's worth, I'd recommend the Hong Kong NET program. A buddy of mine taught over there at 2 schools for the better part of a decade and made bank.
They're 'real' teaching jobs in that you're at a middle school and/or high school and you're teaching content (e.g. English) as opposed to merely ESL courses. You might not start at one of the better paying schools, but, then again, you might get lucky. Think he was making ballpark 80K a year when he left a few years back. The downside is the cost of housing, but, hey, you'll be in HK, which is a pretty cool place to live. |
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Chaparrastique
Joined: 01 Jan 2014
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| Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2015 3:45 am Post subject: |
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[quote="edwardcatflap"]
| Quote: |
| Taiwan has some decent packages (88k twd/month (3.3m krw)+ benefits) for teachers with home country certification. Only a fool or a newbie would head there for jobs in the buxibans. |
Agreed, I worked in a buxiban briefly. They are far less tolerable than Korean hogwons. |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2015 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Chaparrastique"]
| edwardcatflap wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Taiwan has some decent packages (88k twd/month (3.3m krw)+ benefits) for teachers with home country certification. Only a fool or a newbie would head there for jobs in the buxibans. |
Agreed, I worked in a buxiban briefly. They are far less tolerable than Korean hogwons. |
Are the Taiwanese really good at English or something? They seem not to need English teachers if they have all these restrictions placed on them for Public Schools and their hakwons can get away with treating their waygooks so bad. In the pictures I've seen of Taiwan, the buildings seem to look pretty shabby and some of the water still isn't treated? Seems like they are still developing. Of course Kroea has some dumpy buildings too, but trust me when I say some of them have actually had their exteriors renovated and some have been torn down to make way for new sleek modern buildings. The changes here suring the last few eyars have astounded me. (Maybe Taiwan has it's nice areas too?) |
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young_clinton
Joined: 09 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2015 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Korea elementary public schools before anything in China. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2015 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Weigookin74 wrote: |
| (Maybe Taiwan has it's nice areas too?) |
Taiwanese are considered more friendly towards foreigners than Koreans. So more expats want to live there. |
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Chaparrastique
Joined: 01 Jan 2014
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| Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 7:03 am Post subject: |
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[quote="Weigookin74"]
| Chaparrastique wrote: |
| edwardcatflap wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Taiwan has some decent packages (88k twd/month (3.3m krw)+ benefits) for teachers with home country certification. Only a fool or a newbie would head there for jobs in the buxibans. |
Agreed, I worked in a buxiban briefly. They are far less tolerable than Korean hogwons. |
Are the Taiwanese really good at English or something? They seem not to need English teachers if they have all these restrictions placed on them for Public Schools and their hakwons can get away with treating their waygooks so bad. In the pictures I've seen of Taiwan, the buildings seem to look pretty shabby and some of the water still isn't treated? Seems like they are still developing. Of course Kroea has some dumpy buildings too, but trust me when I say some of them have actually had their exteriors renovated and some have been torn down to make way for new sleek modern buildings. The changes here suring the last few eyars have astounded me. (Maybe Taiwan has it's nice areas too?) |
Taiwanese like foreigners. I had a supermodel-hot g/f there, they fetishize weygooks. They have a positive attitude to the outside world, also have travelled outside the country a lot. So yeah, they have a generally higher standard of English speaking.
Not much in it but in my mind Korean women are better looking on average. Taiwanese are really small too. Tw is also really superficial and materialistic. Koreans are more capable of being down to earth.
I agree that Korea's infrastructure is more developed and modern, in Seoul at least. Outside of Seoul its about the same.
Yeah the average Buxiban has 20 kids per class. They like their teachers to have shared housing too. Maybe not all schools but my manager was a micro-manager that wanted everything done precisely a certain way. Korean hogwons are tough but they are more relaxed and fun. |
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metalhead
Joined: 18 May 2010
Location: Toilet
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| Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2015 11:55 am Post subject: |
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| Chaparrastique wrote: |
Yeah the average Buxiban has 20 kids per class. They like their teachers to have shared housing too. Maybe not all schools but my manager was a micro-manager that wanted everything done precisely a certain way. Korean hogwons are tough but they are more relaxed and fun. |
Sounds like you worked at a chain buxiban. Or maybe not, they're pretty much the same as hakwons, except you're more likely to get paid at a buxiban. |
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