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DomAndJenny
Joined: 21 Nov 2011
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Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:19 pm Post subject: Advice appreciated |
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Hi. I work at a hagwon that only hires people with teaching certificates. The job was going very well until the owner hired a new principal to boost profits. The new principal starting making major decisions which affect our ability to teach and work. Myself and another employee approached her about giving us due notice on things that majorly affect us and she said that it's great to have concerned people on staff and that she would keep us in the loop.
2 weeks later she informs us there would be a summer camp. She never told us, but all the kids had already enrolled. There would be no pay and it was mandatory. The previous year they school paid the employees for the extra work and it was a voluntary experience.
We refused to do this, as it was not fair to ask us to work all these extra hours when we are already teaching at capacity. She later comes back and says that she can tell us to do whatever she wants within the 9-6 time frame. We still refuse, and she then gets our head teacher to tell us that she was planning to pay us all along, and wants an apology.
After this debacle, she refused to speak with us, would not extend professional courtesies, glared at us openly, told other people she would punish us if we were her children,etc. I tried saying hello to her the first few days but after a couple of tries, I just ignored her too.
Then came another incident where she changed all of our afterschool classes with no warning/rationale. This was not a huge issue for me, but there were some teachers who had planned long (3 month) book studies for the kids who were told 6 days in advance that they are getting new schedules/new classes.
Two weeks ago, she tells us about 4 days in advance there will be cameras installed in our school in the hallways and stairs. We say ok no big deal. Then it turns into there will be cameras in the classrooms, but they will not be turned on. Then she finally admits the night before they are going to be turned on. I said I don't feel comfortable with it and I do no want to be recorded. My main issue is that I do not want someone in a position of authority who is outwardly hostile towards me having a digital recording of my every move.
So today she walks in ( I was on bus duty) and she says good morning to me ( the first time in about 2 months). I do not return the courtesy. She then literally SCREAMS good morning at me two more times like I'm stupid. She does this in public, in front of other teachers. Then they come in and turn my camera back around, and I say I can not accept being video taped in the classroom. I gave them a couple of hours to get someone to cover my afternoon classes, and I left at lunch time.
I got a phone call this afternoon from the head English teacher asking me to come in for a meeting. I declined because I had nothing else to say. She then called back and said if you don't want to be videotaped, you will have to quit, because the cameras are staying. They then called back and asked if I would be giving notice, I said I would stay for the notice period as long as I wasn't being filmed in my classroom during that time.
So I don't know what their answer to that will be.
TL/DR: job was going well, they hired new principal who has significantly changed the nature of the job so much that I would not have come to work there had this information been available from the beginning. As well she has created a toxic environment for all staff in her 4 months on board.
P.S. All staff is unhappy. Foreigners and Koreans (one foreigner who doesn't care) and the other staff, even the cleaning ladies.
Should I book a flight out tomorrow? Will staying around just be giving them time to screw me? What can they potentially do to me based on what I have already said.
Any advice on the situation would be appreciated. |
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nero
Joined: 11 Mar 2009
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Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:29 pm Post subject: |
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It's horrible when management screws things up.
I don't understand why you would 'book a flight out tomorrow,' though. If you are not happy, hand in your notice and find a new job.
They must give you your last pay by law. if they don't, you can go to the labour board.
Don't pack up and leave, not only will it make it harder for you to come back, but you will lose out on your final pay. |
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DomAndJenny
Joined: 21 Nov 2011
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Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:32 am Post subject: |
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nero wrote: |
It's horrible when management screws things up.
I don't understand why you would 'book a flight out tomorrow,' though. If you are not happy, hand in your notice and find a new job.
They must give you your last pay by law. if they don't, you can go to the labour board.
Don't pack up and leave, not only will it make it harder for you to come back, but you will lose out on your final pay. |
I see what you mean. My contract is not clear on me having to pay back original flight. At one point it says if I break contract I will have to pay back the flight. In another part it say if the contract is terminated after 6 months, I don't have to pay it back. Does terminated only apply to if they fire me?
Another wedge in this is that my fiance also works here. She is not back from work yet, but I don't know what she plans to do. |
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YTMND
Joined: 16 Jan 2012 Location: You're the man now dog!!
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Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 1:16 am Post subject: |
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Two weeks ago, she tells us about 4 days in advance there will be cameras installed in our school in the hallways and stairs. We say ok no big deal. Then it turns into there will be cameras in the classrooms, but they will not be turned on. |
You actually thought they wouldn't turn them on?
The hallway and stairs cameras should have clued you in.
Regardless if you like it or not, it's normal for schools to do this. I even taught in China where parents waited outside of class and watched a TV screen of the classroom. It did make me feel weird at first knowing the parents/grandparents were outside looking in like a fishbowl. However, when their child was misbehaving they would come in and discipline them.
It was a minor interruption, but gave me peace of mind that I didn't have to do it.
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Should I book a flight out tomorrow? Will staying around just be giving them time to screw me? What can they potentially do to me based on what I have already said. |
If you can't live with being videotaped, then you might as well go. It's highly likely your next school would do the same. If you get a rural position, then there is less chance of this.
The summer camp issue is really the only legit complaint I see. They have to give you compensation if it is more work than you agreed to. You stated "principal" but you also stated you are at a hagwon. The owner would make the decision. If they hired this person, then they are more like a manager?
I have had terrible success working with changing of managers. They do like to mix things up unfairly. I was told by a 4th manager I would have to travel 2 hours into Seoul for training after work and I wouldn't be compensated for transportation or time during the training. When I brought up the distance I would have to travel, the manager just said that the other teachers didn't mind. The schools they taught at though were in Bucheon or near. For them it would mean 20 minutes at worst.
I worked out an agreement to leave, and they paid me. Since the hagwon told you they would pay more for the summer camp (right?) perhaps they will do the same and pay for your final month. Can you live with the camera on just for a month? You might find that it isn't as big of a deal as you are making it out to be.
If you do have to go, then you will be paying for the flight and they might even try to take some out for finding another teacher. I guess it's an all or nothing choice. You can only make that. Which do you want? |
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DomAndJenny
Joined: 21 Nov 2011
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Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 1:30 am Post subject: |
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YTMND wrote: |
Quote: |
Two weeks ago, she tells us about 4 days in advance there will be cameras installed in our school in the hallways and stairs. We say ok no big deal. Then it turns into there will be cameras in the classrooms, but they will not be turned on. |
You actually thought they wouldn't turn them on?
The hallway and stairs cameras should have clued you in.
Regardless if you like it or not, it's normal for schools to do this. I even taught in China where parents waited outside of class and watched a TV screen of the classroom. It did make me feel weird at first knowing the parents/grandparents were outside looking in like a fishbowl. However, when their child was misbehaving they would come in and discipline them.
It was a minor interruption, but gave me peace of mind that I didn't have to do it.
Quote: |
Should I book a flight out tomorrow? Will staying around just be giving them time to screw me? What can they potentially do to me based on what I have already said. |
If you can't live with being videotaped, then you might as well go. It's highly likely your next school would do the same. If you get a rural position, then there is less chance of this.
The summer camp issue is really the only legit complaint I see. They have to give you compensation if it is more work than you agreed to. You stated "principal" but you also stated you are at a hagwon. The owner would make the decision. If they hired this person, then they are more like a manager?
I have had terrible success working with changing of managers. They do like to mix things up unfairly. I was told by a 4th manager I would have to travel 2 hours into Seoul for training after work and I wouldn't be compensated for transportation or time during the training. When I brought up the distance I would have to travel, the manager just said that the other teachers didn't mind. The schools they taught at though were in Bucheon or near. For them it would mean 20 minutes at worst.
I worked out an agreement to leave, and they paid me. Since the hagwon told you they would pay more for the summer camp (right?) perhaps they will do the same and pay for your final month. Can you live with the camera on just for a month? You might find that it isn't as big of a deal as you are making it out to be.
If you do have to go, then you will be paying for the flight and they might even try to take some out for finding another teacher. I guess it's an all or nothing choice. You can only make that. Which do you want? |
They call her the principal. She is not the owner.
I can't live with the cameras. She is openly hostile towards me and I do not feel comfortable with her having this tool to potentially use against me.
Even if the cameras all get hauled out tomorrow, I will still resign, as she lies regularly and has made the atmosphere at school VERY unprofessional.
The tragedy is that they picked up a great staff this year (excluding myself). Lots of professionals who work hard and genuinely have the best interests of the kids at heart. Unfortunately, in my case at the very least, I now hate going into work and am finding it hard to be motivated to make great lesson plans.
She has truly dramatically change the experience of working there, as well as drastically changing what we signed up for. The position we took based off the job interviews where we asked specific questions and were given answers, is far different than the position as it stands now. She has tried to even get people in one-on-ones and tried to get them to sign a new contract that states that the person would have to work any hours without extra payment, including working through all their prep times. Basically she is turning this place into the shady hagwon we were trying to avoid when we came over. Making such significant changes mid contract should be illegal. |
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Keeper
Joined: 11 Jun 2012
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Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 1:36 am Post subject: |
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There are cameras in the rooms I teach as well. I think if that really bothers you then teaching may not be for you. Do you really feel that strongly about it or is it because of the other crap they had been pulling? It sounds like you were just tired of working for them.
Get a letter of release from them and then a D-10 visa. You will have 6 months to look for another job. Unless you are that adamant about cameras. |
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liveinkorea316
Joined: 20 Aug 2010 Location: South Korea
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Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 1:42 am Post subject: |
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Unfortunately OP you cannot tell your boss to get rid of the cameras. They are legal in this country. She does not need your permission and it is not a part of the employment contract. It is considered a normal part of hagwon teaching here for some hagwons.
If you are stubborn it means you are quitting without notice and therefore without pay.
You will be unlikely to get a letter of release from them.
You should in that case try and go to the immigration office and get a D10 visa and look for a job to transfer your visa to immediately without getting all the docs again. |
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DomAndJenny
Joined: 21 Nov 2011
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Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 1:47 am Post subject: |
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Keeper wrote: |
There are cameras in the rooms I teach as well. I think if that really bothers you then teaching may not be for you. Do you really feel that strongly about it or is it because of the other crap they had been pulling? It sounds like you were just tired of working for them.
Get a letter of release from them and then a D-10 visa. You will have 6 months to look for another job. Unless you are that adamant about cameras. |
Cameras in themselves are not the problem. My problem is why install them part way through a contract, and why lie and say they will not be turned on beforehand. Finally, I don't want to be videotaped for 50% of my life by someone who is outrightly hostile towards me.
I am not worried about my LOR. I am on a leave of absence from my job at home, I can go back into it.
I came over here for personal fulfillment more than money, and she's ground the fulfillment I get from this job down to 0.
liveinkorea316 wrote: |
Unfortunately OP you cannot tell your boss to get rid of the cameras. They are legal in this country. She does not need your permission and it is not a part of the employment contract. It is considered a normal part of hagwon teaching here for some hagwons.
If you are stubborn it means you are quitting without notice and therefore without pay.
You will be unlikely to get a letter of release from them.
You should in that case try and go to the immigration office and get a D10 visa and look for a job to transfer your visa to immediately without getting all the docs again. |
I know they are legal. But I made it quite clear I wasn't having her videotaping me all day. So I will quit over it, but I feel bad because I have great kids and a great coteacher/coworkers. |
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YTMND
Joined: 16 Jan 2012 Location: You're the man now dog!!
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Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:23 am Post subject: |
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why lie and say they will not be turned on beforehand |
I highly doubt they said this initially. My bet is that you asked them about it. They probably said nothing, you questioned them on it, and they figured you were nervous about it so they said this to "relax" you and turn them on "later". It's their way to ease you into what they want you to do.
I was told we wouldn't work on Fridays, and then the school asked me if I had any religious reason why I couldn't work Friday. Apparently, the previous teachers (a couple) were part of LDS and they wouldn't teach later on on Fridays. When I said no, they stated they would schedule Fridays when a new curriculum was prepared.
At my current school, they said I would only have 14 classes, but it says 20 in my contract. They scheduled 20, but in November that should drop to 12 when one 8 week course for 2 classes ends.
Sometimes if you put up with something, they will ease later on.
It seems like you don't fully understand how things are done over here.
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But I made it quite clear I wasn't having her videotaping me all day. So I will quit over it, but I feel bad because I have great kids and a great coteacher/coworkers. |
Goodbye. Too bad you didn't give Korea or Asia a more "warming" try. It really isn't as bad as you are projecting it to be. |
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Kepler
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
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Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:35 am Post subject: |
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DomAndJenny wrote: |
Should I book a flight out tomorrow? Will staying around just be giving them time to screw me? What can they potentially do to me based on what I have already said.
Any advice on the situation would be appreciated. |
By law you have fourteen days to leave the country after your last day at work. Immigration will give you more time if you need to have the labor board settle a dispute about pay. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008 Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 4:28 am Post subject: |
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Cameras in themselves are not the problem. My problem is why install them part way through a contract, and why lie and say they will not be turned on beforehand. Finally, I don't want to be videotaped for 50% of my life by someone who is outrightly hostile towards me. |
The cameras likely have nothing to do with your contract but rather are a school decision, for all classrooms. It is not uncommon to have cameras in classrooms and in fact can protect the teacher quite well in case a student complains. Indeed, the video evidence can usually clear the teacher and avoid lenghty investigations. |
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Dodge7
Joined: 21 Oct 2011
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Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 5:02 am Post subject: |
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OP you sound like a problem employee, ie. HIGH MAINTENANCE. I'd get rid of you in a hurry. You aren't anyone special. YOU ARE A FREAKING ESL TEACHER and easily replaced. Who are you to treat management like you are above them? They're doing you the favor by hiring you and paying you...what makes you think they can't get some other bum off the street to do your measly, little, pathetic job? |
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tiger fancini

Joined: 21 Mar 2006 Location: Testicles for Eyes
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Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 5:30 am Post subject: |
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Dodge7 wrote: |
OP you sound like a problem employee, ie. HIGH MAINTENANCE. I'd get rid of you in a hurry. You aren't anyone special. YOU ARE A FREAKING ESL TEACHER and easily replaced. Who are you to treat management like you are above them? They're doing you the favor by hiring you and paying you...what makes you think they can't get some other bum off the street to do your measly, little, pathetic job? |
Blimey Dodge7, had a bad day? Just 4 more days until the weekend, keep your chin up. |
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DomAndJenny
Joined: 21 Nov 2011
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Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 6:16 am Post subject: |
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YTMND wrote: |
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why lie and say they will not be turned on beforehand |
I highly doubt they said this initially. . |
You can doubt it all you like. This was what was presented to us.
PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
Quote: |
Cameras in themselves are not the problem. My problem is why install them part way through a contract, and why lie and say they will not be turned on beforehand. Finally, I don't want to be videotaped for 50% of my life by someone who is outrightly hostile towards me. |
The cameras likely have nothing to do with your contract but rather are a school decision, for all classrooms. It is not uncommon to have cameras in classrooms and in fact can protect the teacher quite well in case a student complains. Indeed, the video evidence can usually clear the teacher and avoid lenghty investigations. |
I agree with what you are saying, but my problem is the person who is having control of the cameras, moreso than the cameras themselves.
Dodge7 wrote: |
OP you sound like a problem employee, ie. HIGH MAINTENANCE. I'd get rid of you in a hurry. You aren't anyone special. YOU ARE A FREAKING ESL TEACHER and easily replaced. Who are you to treat management like you are above them? They're doing you the favor by hiring you and paying you...what makes you think they can't get some other bum off the street to do your measly, little, pathetic job? |
I am a human being. I can choose not to work anyplace I feel I am not being treated well, or anyplace I don't want to work.
You must be doing a smashing job if you think it is measly and pathetic. Must be nice to get so much fulfillment out of life. |
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DomAndJenny
Joined: 21 Nov 2011
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Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 6:19 am Post subject: |
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[quote="YTMND"]
Quote: |
Goodbye. Too bad you didn't give Korea or Asia a more "warming" try. It really isn't as bad as you are projecting it to be. |
Naw man I love Korea. I love the food, my students, and most of the people I have met. Love the countryside and all the things to do and see. Korea is not the problem. 100% of mine and everyone else's problems are stemming from one person. |
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