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The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
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 Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:09 am Post subject: |
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| andrewchon wrote: |
| It's not just one thing but all of the them: appearance, mannerism, methods, body odor, voice timbre, leadership, choice of materials, ... the lot. Each are just as important as the other. You've been getting along with your strengths alone. You can do so much better by utilising the others. |
hmm...disagree with the highlighted part.
It is a good idea to utilize as many factors as possible...certainly.
But appearance is not in the same league as skills.
It is a little like saying...appearance is equally important as skill to a pro ball player.
Those teachers who have worked on their 'skills' know what I am talking about.
It takes years of dedication to acquire skills.
It takes a day of shopping to buy new clothes.
And just a note...nobody is saying....dress like a slob.
Not wearing a suit does not equate to dressing like a slob. |
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isitts
Joined: 25 Dec 2008
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:18 am Post subject: |
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When I taught adults, I didn't feel comfortable unless I was wearing a tie. (but still not a suit. That would just be overkill, unless I was teaching for a corporation, among others wearing suits.)
But for kids...no. I'd taught kids and adults at the same hagwon and learned quickly to take the tie off before entering the kids classroom. |
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peregrinejones
Joined: 25 Apr 2012
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 6:08 am Post subject: |
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When I was teaching adults, I wore a shirt and tie and dress pants for the first several weeks. Then one day I decided to see how a "casual Friday" would fly and the students (mostly younger men at company classes, and a mixed bag at the institute classes) loved it. They really opened up and started participating more because they stopped looking at me as an authority figure, they said. From then on, I usually wore something like a polo and khakis...semi casual, I guess you could say.
This topic does interest me quite a bit, as I am looking into applying at YBM, Pagoda, or other major adult institutes, but they all say they have strict dress codes on their websites. I wonder how much this is enforced at individual branches, and if my experience with my adult students preferring it when I dressed down a bit (to be clear, I'm not talking about a t-shirt and flip flops or anything ridiculous like that) was some kind of a year-long fluke? Or were they just lying to make me feel better/help me save face for looking like a clown at work?
Anyone else have a similar experience?
Back to the original topic of the thread, I don't see why a suit is necessary for an elementary teacher at all! |
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Scorpion
Joined: 15 Apr 2012
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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| The Cosmic Hum wrote: |
| And just a note...nobody is saying....dress like a slob. Not wearing a suit does not equate to dressing like a slob. |
Exactly. Some people can't make a reasonable argument so they build a straw man argument that noone is making. I clearly stated in my OP that I dress presentably. The opposite of wearing a formal black suit to teach the alphabet is not being a "1960's counter-culture slob." |
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thebearofbundang
Joined: 02 Sep 2012
Location: Bundang
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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As you said, no one has asked you to wear a suit to teach. So what's the issue? Why are you bothered that other teachers in your school choose to wear a suit? It seems like they aren't bothered by you choosing not to wear one.
And, as a grown man, IMO you really should own at least one suit. Weddings, funerals, job interviews, school photo's, school graduation, parent-teacher interviews and any other type of formal event calls for a suit. |
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Scorpion
Joined: 15 Apr 2012
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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| thebearofbundang wrote: |
| As you said, no one has asked you to wear a suit to teach. So what's the issue? Why are you bothered that other teachers in your school choose to wear a suit? |
Great, another teacher who can't read. The principle insisted that every male teacher wear a formal black suit. They had no choice. When they did have a choice noone opted for the dark black suit. I can only assume that you are posting on your five minute break between classes and didn't have a chance to properly read the OP. And if, as your name suggests, you are the guy in those youtube videos, you really shouldn't be giving grooming advice to anyone. No offence. Just saying. |
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thebearofbundang
Joined: 02 Sep 2012
Location: Bundang
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Of course, noone has mentioned anything to me about wearing a suit. That requirement is apparently just for the 'real' teachers. Anyway, I don't own a suit in Korea. I dress presentably, but if they want me to wear a suit they's have to pay for it. And they'll need to turn on the friggin air conditioner once in a while. |
Sorry, I thought that when you wrote this in the OP you meant no one had requested that you wear a suit. I didn't realize it meant that the principal insisted that you wear one.
And I am not on any youtube videos (as far as I know).
Also, not a teacher anymore. |
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The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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| thebearofbundang wrote: |
And I am not on any youtube videos (as far as I know).
Also, not a teacher anymore. |
Wow...what an unfortunate choice of user names.
I was totally thinking what Scorpion was thinking...just didn't want to poke the bear. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khJkUA0hQRU |
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isitts
Joined: 25 Dec 2008
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:50 pm Post subject: |
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| peregrinejones wrote: |
When I was teaching adults, I wore a shirt and tie and dress pants for the first several weeks. Then one day I decided to see how a "casual Friday" would fly and the students (mostly younger men at company classes, and a mixed bag at the institute classes) loved it. They really opened up and started participating more because they stopped looking at me as an authority figure, they said. From then on, I usually wore something like a polo and khakis...semi casual, I guess you could say.
This topic does interest me quite a bit, as I am looking into applying at YBM, Pagoda, or other major adult institutes, but they all say they have strict dress codes on their websites. I wonder how much this is enforced at individual branches, and if my experience with my adult students preferring it when I dressed down a bit (to be clear, I'm not talking about a t-shirt and flip flops or anything ridiculous like that) was some kind of a year-long fluke? Or were they just lying to make me feel better/help me save face for looking like a clown at work?
Anyone else have a similar experience? |
I hear what you're saying. I actually agree. When I first starting teaching (in a high school in Japan...where all the male teachers wore suits), I dressed in nice slacks and button up shirts. But I felt when I dressed too formally, it kind of distanced me too much from the students. And when you're teaching a class where you want the students to feel comfortable communicating with you and each other, dressing too formally can really be counter-productive. So, in the high school, I stopped doing it.
I think I felt more compelled to dress up at my hagwon because, well, first of all, it was a business, but also I was a new teacher and younger than most of my students. It was probably a form of compensation. If I were teaching adults now (and had the choice of what I wear), I'd probably dress down a bit more.
Though...I don't know. It depends. When you're teaching adults (specifically those closer to your age) it may be better to dress professionally so that they remember you're still the teacher. Not in a belligerent way...but you don't want to break down too many of the barriers between student and teacher. |
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thebearofbundang
Joined: 02 Sep 2012
Location: Bundang
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
thebearofbundang wrote:
And I am not on any youtube videos (as far as I know).
Also, not a teacher anymore.
Wow...what an unfortunate choice of user names.
I was totally thinking what Scorpion was thinking...just didn't want to poke the bear.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khJkUA0hQRU |
Oh my.. Well, that is not me. My nick name "Bear" was given to me as a teenager. And, as an ex-Canadian Football League linebacker, I can assure you that I am in a little better shape than that that 'Bear'. |
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Scorpion
Joined: 15 Apr 2012
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 11:34 pm Post subject: |
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The coincidence seems a bit too unlikely. On the outside chance it's not you, just type in 'Bundang Bear' on youtube. You might want to change your user name if you don't want 100% of the people posting on Dave's to think you are one and the same.
But methinks the coincidence a bit too odd. 'Bundang Bear" and 'Thebearofbundang'.
Really? |
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andrewchon
Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Location: Back in Oz. Living in ISIS Aust.
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 11:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Scorpion wrote: |
| The Cosmic Hum wrote: |
| And just a note...nobody is saying....dress like a slob. Not wearing a suit does not equate to dressing like a slob. |
Exactly. Some people can't make a reasonable argument so they build a straw man argument that noone is making. I clearly stated in my OP that I dress presentably. The opposite of wearing a formal black suit to teach the alphabet is not being a "1960's counter-culture slob." |
Touchy...
When you're grabbing at straws to save yourself from drowning, do you mind not taking me with you? |
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thebearofbundang
Joined: 02 Sep 2012
Location: Bundang
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| Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:42 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
The coincidence seems a bit too unlikely. On the outside chance it's not you, just type in 'Bundang Bear' on youtube. You might want to change your user name if you don't want 100% of the people posting on Dave's to think you are one and the same.
But methinks the coincidence a bit too odd. 'Bundang Bear" and 'Thebearofbundang'.
Really?
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Yeah, you got me. I post videos of myself on YouTube showing my face, then go and hide on online forums by changing my name from 'Bundang Bear' to 'The Bear of Bundang' knowing no one would put that together, and if they did I would deny it cause I don't want anyone to know who I am (the same guy who proudly posts public videos on YouTube of himself for all to see). You got me pal.
Anyways, good luck with the good fight against professionals dressing all, you know, professional and all.. Might wanna buy a suit for yourself too, you're a big boy now.. |
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Zyzyfer
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: who, what, where, when, why, how?
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| Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:45 am Post subject: |
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| peregrinejones wrote: |
| This topic does interest me quite a bit, as I am looking into applying at YBM, Pagoda, or other major adult institutes, but they all say they have strict dress codes on their websites. I wonder how much this is enforced at individual branches, and if my experience with my adult students preferring it when I dressed down a bit (to be clear, I'm not talking about a t-shirt and flip flops or anything ridiculous like that) was some kind of a year-long fluke? Or were they just lying to make me feel better/help me save face for looking like a clown at work? |
I think Pagoda is extremely strict about it but never worked there. YBM, at least when I was there a few years back, was on the strict side (tie and button shirts) as well but you had a few outs. There was a "casual" day where you could lose the tie. Oddly, to me anyway, you could wear a sweater over the button shirt and tie. And if you went out somewhere with the class, some people might dress down for it.
There's a lot of student rotation so you'll only see the vast majority of the students for a month sporadically. But I did have some university-age students that I taught several months in a row, and they said, totally unprovoked by me, that they didn't feel all that comfortable with me having to wear a tie and dress shirt all the time.
Things have changed radically since I was there, though, and this all may no longer apply. |
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Scorpion
Joined: 15 Apr 2012
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| Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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| andrewchon wrote: |
| Scorpion wrote: |
| The Cosmic Hum wrote: |
| And just a note...nobody is saying....dress like a slob. Not wearing a suit does not equate to dressing like a slob. |
Exactly. Some people can't make a reasonable argument so they build a straw man argument that noone is making. I clearly stated in my OP that I dress presentably. The opposite of wearing a formal black suit to teach the alphabet is not being a "1960's counter-culture slob." |
Touchy...
When you're grabbing at straws to save yourself from drowning, do you mind not taking me with you? |
Huh?
Mr. Chon, are you aware that this forum is for ESL teachers, not ESL students looking to use catchy new phrases they learned last week at the hagwon. Scorpion used "strawman" in a sentence. I know a saying with the word 'straw' in it. I'll use it, even if it makes no bloody sense whatsoever in context. LOL. |
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