| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Scorpion
Joined: 15 Apr 2012
|
 Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 7:28 pm Post subject: K-pop and Korean national pride - I don't get it. |
 |
|
Honestly, why do Koreans take so much pride in K-pop? The government is even involved in pushing in internationally as something uniquely Korean. Problem is, it ain't Korean. Pop music is from the West. THey even call it 'K-pop'. Every band has an English name. They often have English lyrics. They use Western pop, rap and hip hop styles. They use Western choreographed dancing. They wear Western fashions. etc etc etc
What the hell is so Korean about it? They've just taken the worst of Western bubblegum pop music and added some pretty girls. How does that make it something that a) the government should opt to market internationally as "korean culture' b) Koreans should take such inordinate pride in? "Hey Scorpion dude, do you like K-pop?" "Sorry, no. It's not my thing." = silence and hurt feelings.
What's going on here? |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Seoulman69
Joined: 14 Dec 2009
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 7:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I'll have a pop at this one. I might be well off the mark though.
I reckon it's because Korea is such a small country. The fact that K-pop is becoming popular around the world is a source of pride for them, and their government. K-pop and K-dramas have the ability to give Korea an image of something modern and exciting to many people.
To us, older western men, K-pop is pretty crappy. But to many it is enjoyable. The fact it is often written by Koreans, in the Korean language, and performed by Koreans makes it K-pop. Most countries, such as Canada and the UK, are proud when one of their bands makes it big in the US and around the world. Coupled with the differences in language and culture, it is an even bigger source of pride for Koreans to see a Korea band do well globally.
| Quote: |
| They use Western choreographed dancing. They wear Western fashions. etc etc etc |
This is the part where you lose me. Should Scottish bands all be playing bagpipes and wearing kilts when they perform? Dancing is global, not Western. The western fashion they wear has become predominant throughout the world.
Overall Koreans are simply proud to see anything from Korea do well. They are a small country who has had a rough history so to see themselves as the creators of something people throughout the world like is a great source of pride for them. When you say you don't like it that pride takes a dent. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Scorpion
Joined: 15 Apr 2012
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 8:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Seoulman69 wrote: |
Dancing is global, not Western. The western fashion they wear has become predominant throughout the world.
Overall Koreans are simply proud to see anything from Korea do well. They are a small country who has had a rough history so to see themselves as the creators of something people throughout the world like is a great source of pride for them. When you say you don't like it that pride takes a dent. |
1. Dancing is global AND culturally specific. The impulse to dance runs through all cultures. That said, the dancing style they chose is Western
2. They are not the 'creators' of anything here. Merely copiers.
3. Western fashion is globalized (to an extent) but it is certainly not 'Korean' anymore than bubblegum pop music and hip hop hand gestures is Korean.
4. People 'throughout the world' like K-pop. 
Last edited by Scorpion on Wed Sep 19, 2012 8:17 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Patrick Bateman
Joined: 21 Apr 2009
Location: Lost in Translation
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 8:16 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Regardless of how accurate it is, there are a fair share of Koreans who view themselves as a single, united people.
It's similar to when the sports team you like does well. You didn't contribute anything to their victory, but you can still feel a sense of pride or satisfaction.
Also, Koreans can be especially proud. Looking at teaching material this is quite evident. Success of a global/international scale validates this sense of pride. As one poster mentioned, the tumultuous history of the country seems to have sparked an overzealous sense of national pride that is fostered through education, and seemingly affirmed when the world in some way acknowledges Korea.
Obviously a government wants to enable this kind of feeling/mentality. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
transmogrifier
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
Location: Seoul, South Korea
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 8:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Scorpion wrote: |
| Seoulman69 wrote: |
Dancing is global, not Western. The western fashion they wear has become predominant throughout the world.
Overall Koreans are simply proud to see anything from Korea do well. They are a small country who has had a rough history so to see themselves as the creators of something people throughout the world like is a great source of pride for them. When you say you don't like it that pride takes a dent. |
1. Dancing is global AND culturally specific. The impulse to dance runs through all cultures. That said, the dancing style they chose is Western
2. They are not the 'creators' of anything here. Merely copiers.
3. Western fashion is globalized (to an extent) but it is certainly not 'Korean' anymore than bubblegum pop music and hip hop behavior is Korean.
4. People 'throughout the world' like K-pop. |
1. Who cares?
2. Who cares?
3. Who cares?
4. Who cares?
If only the over-the-top national pride and over-the-top criticism and fevered analysis of said national pride would cancel each other out, the world would be a better place. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Gorf
Joined: 25 Jun 2011
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 8:28 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| It's either that, or trying to push bibimbap as being the be-all end-all food again. Guess which one is more accessible? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Seoulman69
Joined: 14 Dec 2009
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 8:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
1. Dancing is global AND culturally specific. The impulse to dance runs through all cultures. That said, the dancing style they chose is Western
2. They are not the 'creators' of anything here. Merely copiers.
3. Western fashion is globalized (to an extent) but it is certainly not 'Korean' anymore than bubblegum pop music and hip hop behavior is Korean.
4. People 'throughout the world' like K-pop. |
I would say that choreographed dancing on stage is more Asian than it is Western. A group of girls on stage doing the same moves in sync, that is the same as Korean traditional dancing.
The are creators as much as anyone else is. The Beatles, Led Zeppelin etc all borrowed heavily from other artists. In this case you don't like it because it is K-pop.
They aren't claiming to wear Korean clothes. People all over the world wear the same style of clothes. To suggest that their clothes are not Korean enough is strange. Do you expect every Korean artist to wear Hanboks? Should the Scottish bands all be wearing kilts?
Roll your eyes as much as you like but K-pop has fans all around the world. They may not be as huge in numbers as Koreans think but they still exist.
Your post reeks of an anti-Korean rant. I've tried to explain my opinion on why some Koreans love K-pop but all you've done is reiterate your initial points. If you want to discuss the matter in a civilized manner then this is your chance. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cdninkorea
Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Location: Seoul
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 8:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The fact that so many of the lyrics are English does strike me as odd. A most poignant example is Lee Hyori's "You Go Girl" that came out a few years ago; there was significantly more English than Korean in the song.
This is not to say that I don't think K-pop is Korean. It is. But the predominance of English is odd, at least to me. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 8:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| Most countries, such as Canada and the UK, are proud when one of their bands makes it big in the US and around the world |
Sure I felt proud when Amy Winehouse, Adele and Hugh Laurie made it big in the States because I admire their talent. Didn't feel the same about Su Bo, One Direction, Leona Lewis, Simon Cowell and Pierce Morgan. See the difference? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 8:43 pm Post subject: |
|
|
double post
Last edited by edwardcatflap on Wed Sep 19, 2012 8:58 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Seoulman69
Joined: 14 Dec 2009
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 8:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| Didn't feel the same about Su Bo, One Direction, Leona Lewis, Simon Cowell and Pierce Morgan. See the difference? |
Yet in your country the papers still scream everyday about all of their success abroad. Many people in the UK are extremely proud of Su Bo etc.....
Your opinion is unique to you. The same way that some Koreans do not like K-pop.
Also, why is Su Bo singing in English and not wearing traditional Scottish dress? Why are One Direction not dancing round a maypole? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 8:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| Honestly, why do Koreans take so much pride in K-pop? |
Probably the same reason people in Detroit take pride in making cars, even though they didn't invent the car.
| Quote: |
| Pop music is from the West. |
Pop music, as well as rock, is from black folks. A group of people who were treated like crap by the west until sometime around 1970. Give or take a few years based on when your town decided to act right.
I always love it when people start throwing out Jewish/Black stuff and claiming it as from "the west". Two groups of people who for the last 500 years before 1970 (1945 for the Jews) were treated completely like crap by "the west".
| Quote: |
| w does that make it something that a) the government should opt to market internationally as "korean culture' |
Because it can make money. Duh. If countries round Asia are gobbling it up then by all means, do what you can to get it promoted and the dollars flowing.
| Quote: |
"Hey Scorpion dude, do you like K-pop?" "Sorry, no. It's not my thing." = silence and hurt feelings.
|
Reminds me of most people, including some NETs, who get absolutely butt-hurt that someone doesn't like their crappy hipster band or ear-splitting metal that is 12 tracks of anger.
| Quote: |
| I would say that choreographed dancing on stage is more Asian than it is Western. A group of girls on stage doing the same moves in sync, that is the same as Korean traditional dancing. |
Uhhh, I think most cultures around the globe have some sort of "women in sync" dance. Just off my head I'm thinking A Chorus Line and the Rockettes. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
hiamnotcool
Joined: 06 Feb 2012
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 8:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| cdninkorea wrote: |
The fact that so many of the lyrics are English does strike me as odd. A most poignant example is Lee Hyori's "You Go Girl" that came out a few years ago; there was significantly more English than Korean in the song.
This is not to say that I don't think K-pop is Korean. It is. But the predominance of English is odd, at least to me. |
They aren't just marketing to S Korea, they are marketing to the world. I'm going to guess the english isn't really for western audiences. K Pop is massive in Southeast Asia and more people speak english than korean in those countries.
I don't think it's the Korean culture thing that gets people proud, it's that it is a Korean brand. Like Hyundai, Samsung, LG, etc...it's made in Korea. It's a Korean success story. More power to them really. I'm not a fan of K Pop but it's clean and accessible to all ages. I'm pretty ashamed of pop from the USA these days. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 9:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
The same way that some Koreans do not like K-pop.
|
I've yet to meet a single Korean who didn't enthuse about PSY making it big in the US. Maybe he really is that good. How many UK teachers here do you think would admit to liking Su Bo? There's definitely a difference in the way the two countries view their international successes. Probably based on what you said in your first post. I understand it totally. I just wish they'd learn to rein it in a bit more |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Seoulman69
Joined: 14 Dec 2009
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 9:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| I've yet to meet a single Korean who didn't enthuse about PSY making it big in the US. Maybe he really is that good. How many UK teachers here do you think would admit to liking Su Bo? There's definitely a difference in the way the two countries view their international successes. |
But this is the first time it has happened to a Korean. Take for example Andy Murray. He is the first UK US Open champion for many years. Everyone in Scotland will be proud of him. If you say to them that you don't like him then they are going to be upset.
It's a similar situation with Psy. The UK has already had massive success in the US so the feeling has been diluted by years of success. For Koreans Psy is the first taste of US success for a Korean entertainer so they are gorging at the trough of national pride.
I also want to point out there is a big difference between understanding something and approving of it. I don't think Psy's song is very good and I believe he will be a one trick pony. I'd agree that many times Koreans get a bit worked up about any international success however I do understand why Koreans are so proud of his success.
| Quote: |
| I understand it totally. I just wish they'd learn to rein it in a bit more |
I agree, but it's not going to happen. You're a clever guy and can see the bigger picture. Sometimes it's best just to play along. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
