|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
|
 Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 4:29 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| madoka wrote: |
| alongway wrote: |
The same company in 2009 claimed the Men's grooming industry (whatever that is) was 4.8 billion in the US.
. . .
Here is another interesting bit of info from the article. This company puts it at 2.6 billion while euromonitor had it at 4.8 billion years ago, that's quite a discrepancy. Makes you wonder how remotely reliable any of these numbers are. |
Kudos for showing critical thinking skills rarely found on Daves. It's like finding a unicorn that poops rainbows.
Having worked for a company similar to Euromonitor in college, I can explain these discrepancies. Euromonitor is in the business of selling these "reports" to companies and investors. So they'll hire some peon like me and pay them a pittance to keep cranking out dozens of "studies/reports" on various fields. We received no special training or instruction and were thrown to the wolves like any random hagwon owner would.
Well, if the report said that nothing interesting was happening in the shoe market in Estonia, then no one would buy this $900 report. So the company uses hyperbole to generate interest in their reports. "Estonia's footwear market is booming! The market has increased 35% every year! Estonia is the biggest market for sandals in Europe!" Then maybe some company or investor would want to see what was going on in Estonia and pay for the report.
Even a brief glance at their reports shows that they use the terms cosmetics, grooming products and make-up interchangeably. You may also notice that their numbers contradict each other. This is probably due to the lack of training or expertise on the part of their writers.
So not only does companies such as Euromonitor have an agenda, the writer of the article has an agenda to come up with something interesting to entertain his readers. So he'll latch on to the wackiest sounding parts of the report, add some antidotal stories, and, voila, easy to write fluff piece for people to waste a few minutes on.
However, you'll never convince the Dave's peanut gallery otherwise, because they want to believe the story is true. Just look around Korea and you're way, way more likely to wonder if the men bath on a regular basis, let alone use make-up. But certain Dave's users don't like reality getting in the way of their biases. |
Wow, what deep thinking, Jack Handy. They have an agenda. That's not news.
The topic was chosen because it was interesting--no shi&& sherlock. It was a fluff piece on a fashion trend is exactly what I've been saying all along. But that doesn't mean there's no truth in it.
Your contention that most men in Korea don't bother to bathe regularly sounds like a good follow-up story.
As for biases, you're the expert in that field, so I'l lleave you to it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 4:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| alongway wrote: |
| Quote: |
| There you go again--"I think" (something you should probably leave to others) instead of I know. |
That's right, because I properly attribute personal opinion. The facts speak for themselves.
The anecdotal evidence in those articles was for your benefit, since you seem to put so much value in it. See those have relevant numbers in addition to anecdotal evidence. They don't have completely unrelated numbers and only anecdotal evidence and some tired blogger's opinion.
The numbers in those articles speak to those of us capable of higher level thinking. Like 4.8 billion in mens grooming. over 200 million in skincare 2 years ago during a time of rapid growth.
The I think was backed up with actual evidence though.
| Quote: |
| I think you'll find a lot more retail space dedicated to selling men's cosmetics in the west than you would in Korea. |
| Quote: |
| Cosmetics chain Ulta rolled out in-store boutiques called the Men's Shop. CVS Pharmacy has created Guy Aisles in its stores devoted to men's products. Macy's last week opened a Men's Grooming Zone in San Francisco with a barber, flat-screen TV, the sports pages and free Wi-Fi. |
Those are all facts, and actual evidence beyond I saw a guy in a cafe. These are real chains opening up mens sections on national level. What does your article have? 2 shops in Korea and a security guard wearing make-up. WOW. Definitely more likely to be thought of as the capital.
Yes, I spoke anecdotally about the lack of men's sections in korean stores, because I'd never seen them nor seen any evidence they exist. I was leaving that open for you to actually provide some evidence to the contrary, but you didn't. That's how grown-up discussion works. I know, all new territory for you. You see, i put that out there, and since you didn't bother to counter it with anything, I can only assume you accept that as something to actually be true. If you didn't, then I would have expected you to provide something like some websites from cosmetics companies showing off their in-store mens areas or something like that. Kind of like I just did for you.
The problem is you've got nothing to defend the article and just prefer to spin your wheels playing the wilful fool. |
A couple of examples prove nothing about how much overall space is allocated to men's skincare and make-up products in the U.S. With shaving creams, deodorants, razors and blades, hair pomades and waxes, aftershave and colognes and hair coloring for men, most grocery stores and pharmacies pretty much already have a row of men's products. Stores are merely trying to get men to part with a few more dollars.
You also haven't accounted for the greater number of men shoppers in the U.S.
What's the big trend in skincare in the U.S.? Shaving and associated products, not toner, exfoliant and lipstick. You can link to it, but you can't understand it.
As I've stated before, the article needs no defense. You still don't know what's going on, do you Mr. Jones? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
joelove
Joined: 12 May 2011
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:14 am Post subject: |
|
|
21% of global sales
is a lot |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
chungbukdo
Joined: 22 Aug 2010
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 12:11 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| alongway wrote: |
Of course it is, it is mentioned. Utterly without context. The big number:
"South Korean men spent $495.5 million on skincare last year," is as ambiguous as can be. Moisturizer is skin care. They don't provide any reliable stats on how many men are doing anything beyond slapping on moisturizer or sun screen (you can be sure that sun screen is probably lumped in with that number) |
I wonder if that includes razors, which I spend a fortune on.
Anyway, any non-retarded person in Korea can go to a skin care shop and just look at the product selection available to men to make an accurate judgement for themselves. I realize this forum is full of foreigners living in Korea who are oblivious of their surroundings, do not go to normal places like drug stores with other Koreans because they have no real Korean friends (see comment: "This is why I have no Korean male friends, they're always putting on lipstick in the bathroom"), and for some reason are language teachers yet are still illiterate in hangeul (most of the products will be intuitive from the sounds).
This forum is the opposite though. It is full of losers walled up in their apartments trolling the internet who would rather take an article written by a journalist as proof of something than their own eyes and experience in Korea--largely because they don't have an experience in Korea. They have no normal Korean friends, no language ability, and spend most of their time in their little micro-environment free of anything Korea. Yet they'll read an article like this and feel fit to make a snap judgement against the overwhelming evidence that would be available to them if they were to only open their eyes.
A big question for the people who think so many Korean men wear make up like eye liner and lipstick, have you actually done anything in Korea other than be an English teacher? Have you gone to university here and interacted and made friends with young men your age? Do you join any all-Korean clubs with young men? I've been on a university Judo team here, I guarantee you none of my team mates have ever contemplated putting on lipstick. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
byrddogs
Joined: 19 Jun 2009
Location: Shanghai
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 1:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| chungbukdo wrote: |
| alongway wrote: |
Of course it is, it is mentioned. Utterly without context. The big number:
"South Korean men spent $495.5 million on skincare last year," is as ambiguous as can be. Moisturizer is skin care. They don't provide any reliable stats on how many men are doing anything beyond slapping on moisturizer or sun screen (you can be sure that sun screen is probably lumped in with that number) |
I wonder if that includes razors, which I spend a fortune on. |
Hmmm....we all know how hairy Asian men are.
No matter how anyone spins it (moisturizers, make-up, skincare, etc..), that is a lot of money being spent by men on those types of products, and 21% of global sales is an absurd number for a place that makes up less than 1% of the population. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MigukCowboy
Joined: 10 Sep 2012
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 6:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
THIS is why I will never live in Seoul or near it again.
Too much materialism, too much pretentiousness, too much shallowness, too much judgment.
I lived there. I put on the suit and tie, played the game, I tried that, never again. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Died By Bear
Joined: 13 Jul 2010
Location: On the big lake they call Gitche Gumee
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 7:43 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| MigukCowboy wrote: |
| I lived there. I put on the suit and tie, played the game, I tried that, never again. |
But did you carry a quality umbrella to seal the deal?  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MigukCowboy
Joined: 10 Sep 2012
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 7:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Died By Bear wrote: |
| MigukCowboy wrote: |
| I lived there. I put on the suit and tie, played the game, I tried that, never again. |
But did you carry a quality umbrella to seal the deal? |
Yes I did! And it never got stolen. Because I have that mojo. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
