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sparkx
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: thekimchipot.com
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 Posted: Sun May 02, 2004 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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| The funny thing is that the koreans have no idea that more then half of these guys outright hate korea and koreans. The koreans here would be shocked to know what these guys really think about their beloved korea! |
Thats also true for non-koreans abroad who work for korean companies. In the past 6 months i've been to about 7 different countries for business and i'm always astounded by the sheer distain the employees have for their korean co-workers/bosses. One of our sister companies recently lost their CEO who was considered by everyone in the industry to be a visionary; someone who single handedly brought us to a level many thought unattainable. Well, when i was in the States i found out the real scoop. He quit because he simply couldn't deal with the Koreans anymore.
I sat down to dinner with upper management of said company and was amazed at how much of the conversation centered around employee frustration with korean management. The head of the department i'm affiliated with said to me at one point, "Sparkx, I worked for a Japanese company for 10 years and loved it! I thought that the transition to a korean system would be a breeze. I can't believe the difference. It feels like i'm working for bosses from the 1950's. I honestly don't know how long i'll stay here." This from the mouth of a woman who is often quoted in reputable magazines and was headhunted from one of the biggest manufacturers in the industry.
I don't hate korea and i don't hate koreans but interacting with players in the upper eschelon of the industry and hearing their thoughts has really opened my eyes. Koreans truly have no clue how to interact with the outside world and its that and that alone which will lead to the dismantling of international koran industry - mark my words. |
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Kiddirts
Joined: 25 Jul 2003
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| Posted: Sun May 02, 2004 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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| komtengi wrote: |
Im just curious as to why we always take the norm in our home country and then try and make that the norm in our adopted country....??
I know I do it at times... and from whats written on this thread so do many other people |
because it's not about culture, but about psychology and a person's reasons for doing something...some things the adult male mind needs to outgrow. There are "mature" adult men in Korea...so do they defy their own culture? He doesn't act Korean because he doesn't pick his nose in public and doesn't need to impress his 45 year old friends by drinking, something most of us outgrew in our late teen years. But, if most of them exhibit this trait, then it's an immature society. |
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Kiddirts
Joined: 25 Jul 2003
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| Posted: Sun May 02, 2004 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Butterfly wrote: |
Well actually, I think the guy in the gym Kiddirts met is only acting as other human beings would; I mean, he made an advance to be friendly, it was clearly rejected, so now he isn't talking to him because he has been given the clear impression that Kiddirts doesn't want to have anything to do with him. I think it is a normal human reaction. I love my gym, it's a great way to meet people who have similar interests (vanity!), and I often go up and chat to people, if they rejected my friendly advances then I'd probably feel the same way "No harm done, but that guy obviously wants to keep hisself to hisself."
Nothing to do with culture, just humanty really. |
nah, man...nothing like that at all...I'd been friendly with this man for 2 months, we spot each other on weights and he shows me things and I listen and it's real friendly, like my gym buddy, kinda. Then the day before I killed my biceps, bustin' out on 21's to end my bicep/leg routine, and they were sore and I didn't want to touch them the next day. Even after he showed me the routine, I did it once and explained that my muscles were real sore from the day before and I had to give my biceps a good day of no action for them to break-down and regrow. Everyone knows that's the first thing written on the Holy Gym Commandments.
Last edited by Kiddirts on Sun May 02, 2004 6:24 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Kiddirts
Joined: 25 Jul 2003
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| Posted: Sun May 02, 2004 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="kiwiboy_nz_99"]
Or how about when they travel? Ever seen a bunch of Koreans on a bus tour? Real self reliant and independant eh? A lot of them go all the way round the world, to exotic places, and all they want to do is look for a Korean restaraunt!
Koreans without their Kim Chi is like a plant without water. Kinda sick, eh. Can't go a week a without it. |
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ladyandthetramp
Joined: 21 Nov 2003
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| Posted: Sun May 02, 2004 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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| lush72 wrote: |
| I could write a book................. |
There is a book! Look near the English books about Korea in Kyobo... |
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maneatinghorse
Joined: 27 Mar 2004
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sun May 02, 2004 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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"Intimately familiar with" = in
I know that's what your co-workers told you. None of them would be so rude as to tell a kyopo what their opinions of Koreans are. Even the kiwiboys of the world are circumspect in that regard.
If you could hear your co-workers speak with their "foreigner" colleagues, you might hear other adjectives in addition to "hard-working", "dedicated", and "reliable".
Of course, you would probably just assume they were talking about Vietnamese or Arabs.... |
HAHAHAHA As if you did earn 10~30million per month. Doing what?? Teaching ABC to the President Roh??
By the way, I am not kyopo or Korean. I do hear criticisms of Koreans and Korea from my colleagues but most of the time something understandable. Unlike the sissy whining from kiwiboy and some esl teachers.
If statements such as "Korean men are immature" are made we would be quick to correct that person. |
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dogbert
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: Killbox 90210
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| Posted: Sun May 02, 2004 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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| maneatinghorse wrote: |
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"Intimately familiar with" = in
I know that's what your co-workers told you. None of them would be so rude as to tell a kyopo what their opinions of Koreans are. Even the kiwiboys of the world are circumspect in that regard.
If you could hear your co-workers speak with their "foreigner" colleagues, you might hear other adjectives in addition to "hard-working", "dedicated", and "reliable".
Of course, you would probably just assume they were talking about Vietnamese or Arabs.... |
HAHAHAHA As if you did earn 10~30million per month. Doing what?? Teaching ABC to the President Roh??
By the way, I am not kyopo or Korean. I do hear criticisms of Koreans and Korea from my colleagues but most of the time something understandable. Unlike the sissy whining from kiwiboy and some esl teachers.
If statements such as "Korean men are immature" are made we would be quick to correct that person. |
That's cool. You don't believe me and I don't believe that you're not an ethnic Korean.
Hell, if your attitude didn't give you away, your idiomatic use of English in the above post is sufficient. |
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maneatinghorse
Joined: 27 Mar 2004
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sun May 02, 2004 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Thats also true for non-koreans abroad who work for korean companies. In the past 6 months i've been to about 7 different countries for business and i'm always astounded by the sheer distain the employees have for their korean co-workers/bosses. One of our sister companies recently lost their CEO who was considered by everyone in the industry to be a visionary; someone who single handedly brought us to a level many thought unattainable. Well, when i was in the States i found out the real scoop. He quit because he simply couldn't deal with the Koreans anymore. |
Sounds like a bunch of people who could not adjust into a tough corporate environment. Most people who fail to interact with Koreans, blame the Koreans + Korean management for everything. Too bad for the CEO, I'm sure he wasn't needed by the Korean management anymore.
| Quote: |
| I sat down to dinner with upper management of said company and was amazed at how much of the conversation centered around employee frustration with korean management. The head of the department i'm affiliated with said to me at one point, "Sparkx, I worked for a Japanese company for 10 years and loved it! I thought that the transition to a korean system would be a breeze. I can't believe the difference. It feels like i'm working for bosses from the 1950's. I honestly don't know how long i'll stay here." This from the mouth of a woman who is often quoted in reputable magazines and was headhunted from one of the biggest manufacturers in the industry. |
Nice story. Maybe I should make things up next time I post.
| Quote: |
| I don't hate korea and i don't hate koreans but interacting with players in the upper eschelon of the industry and hearing their thoughts has really opened my eyes. Koreans truly have no clue how to interact with the outside world and its that and that alone which will lead to the dismantling of international koran industry - mark my words. |
For a country with no clue how to interact with the outside world, they certainly have achieved a lot. How did they build themselves to an economic powerhouse from a backward agrian society of 1960s with no natural resources to depend on? How did Korean firms become multinational corporations with operations spreading all over the world??
How were they able to host the World Cup and Olympics successfully?
Dismantling of the international Korean industry??? You have nothing but sheer disdain for the Koreans.
Mark my words, you will lose out to the Koreans. Thats why your complaining. |
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weatherman
Joined: 14 Jan 2003
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Sun May 02, 2004 7:55 pm Post subject: |
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| maneatinghorse wrote: |
| For a country with no clue how to interact with the outside world, they certainly have achieved a lot. How did they build themselves to an economic powerhouse from a backward agrian society of 1960s with no natural resources to depend on? How did Korean firms become multinational corporations with operations spreading all over the world?? |
Korean got lucky with its timing into the international economy, nice deals from the USA too. It's neo mercantilist structure really limits its ability. I honestly believe that Korea doesn't know how to interact in win win situations and the Korean economy does work itself from a nich thesedays a nich that is soon so be over. It has to change because there is so much changing in the world economy. Korea hides behind its culture looking for excuses and exceptions. Korea does this too much and they are starting to be called on this one. Can they change, maybe.... But I don't see it happening. Why are you such the cheerleader? |
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Kiddirts
Joined: 25 Jul 2003
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| Posted: Sun May 02, 2004 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="maneatinghorse"]
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For a country with no clue how to interact with the outside world, they certainly have achieved a lot. How did they build themselves to an economic powerhouse from a backward agrian society of 1960s with no natural resources to depend on? How did Korean firms become multinational corporations with operations spreading all over the world??
How were they able to host the World Cup and Olympics successfully?
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Because of all the help from the US. If it wasn't for the Americans they'd have an economy similar to that of North Korea. |
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just because
Joined: 01 Aug 2003
Location: Changwon - 4964
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| Posted: Sun May 02, 2004 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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| weatherman wrote: |
| the Korean economy does work itself from a nich thesedays a nich that is soon so be over. |
Thats one big niche but I know what you are talking about.
The export oriented industry is Koreas strong card but everyday it loses its competitiveness due to the growing of China and other south-east asian countries plus the fact that Korea is getting richer hence profitablilty for continuing on the same road is much less.
I think the governemnt definantly realizes this and is trying to move away to this hub idea (which is being poorly implemented) and trying to become the English nation of north-east Asia(which is a good idea but so far is not working well due to stubborn local customs and ideas).
Tourism could be a way to bring in dollars (as Australia has done with the transition from an agricultural socirty to a tourism based one- and has worked very well) but what is there here to bring a tourist. if they cleaned the place up a bit, changed some attitudes towards foreigners then i think Korea would be great for tourists. I doubt this will happen for many a year though.
Henceforth, it s stuck in a bit of a rut. What will be the best way to lead this nation foward I bet the leaders are wondering. Everything it was good at before, other countries are doing it better and cheaper. Time is running out.
I am a supporter of this country and hope that they pull out of the next 10 or 20 years well. |
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sparkx
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: thekimchipot.com
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| Posted: Sun May 02, 2004 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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For a country with no clue how to interact with the outside world, they certainly have achieved a lot. How did they build themselves to an economic powerhouse from a backward agrian society of 1960s with no natural resources to depend on? How did Korean firms become multinational corporations with operations spreading all over the world??
How were they able to host the World Cup and Olympics successfully?
Dismantling of the international Korean industry??? You have nothing but sheer disdain for the Koreans.
Mark my words, you will lose out to the Koreans. Thats why your complaining. |
Dude, now you're just getting yourself into waters that you have no hope of swiming out of. Throw around your straw man attacks at others all you want, but i'm dishing out pure objective fact from the perspective of someone from the inside of one of Koreas largest corporations. You seem to think that you are the only one exposed to korean business practices...guess what junior, i'm knee deep in it and probably higher on the corporate ladder than you.
I'll reiterate...i have no problems with this country or my korean co-workers. They all work damn hard though inefficiently due to the Korean management structure. What takes me an hour to do takes a Korean with 20 years experience a half day mainly due to the chain of command he must manouever around.
| Quote: |
| How did Korean firms become multinational corporations with operations spreading all over the world?? |
Are you for real?? How about market penetration. What other country in the world can boast a domestic market share of 60-70% like the big 3 korean companies. When other companies falter they have only their laurels to rest on. Korea, time and time again have completely f'd up on the world stage but they have the support of their domestic market to keep them afloat even though, for years, the product was inferior to that of the competition (that's changed though).
Instead of using that advantage to their benefit and headhunting the best and brightest to oversee their respective markets, what does Korea do? They fill these distribution outfits with korean management who are completely inept and expect the native staff members to follow suit and comply with korean standards. As a result turnover of upper management is higher in these companies than any other in the industry. Loyalty and morale is in the sewer and productivity is wanning. This is well documented phenomenon that transcends all industries in fact. If you seriously refute this, I honestly question your "position" here in Korea.
Now that Korea is trying to enter markets hitherto blocked, they are consequently being forced to accept competitors products that compete with their domestic brands. Unless Koreans wise-up and change their approach, we'll be looking at one teeth rattling economic crisis that will throw you right off your supercilious high horse (which by the way is something I definately don't want. In fact a big part of my job is conflict resolution because it is such a well known and universal problem).
And by the way...when you address me, show some respect. After all I am the winner of the "Gay or Stud" debate. |
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maneatinghorse
Joined: 27 Mar 2004
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sun May 02, 2004 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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| And by the way...when you address me, show some respect. After all I am the winner of the "Gay or Stud" debate. |
You definitely have my respect. |
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Gwangjuboy
Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Location: England
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| Posted: Sun May 02, 2004 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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| maneatinghorse wrote: |
HAHAHAHA As if you did earn 10~30million per month. Doing what?? Teaching ABC to the President Roh??
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You claim that you are not insecure yet you continue to make statements full of hatred about the ESL industry. What is your gripe with expats making opinions about Korean men which are widely held? The punch bags, arm wrestling, room salons, staying with mummy until one's mid twenties, reluctance to travel alone. These aspects of the Korean male's life are alien to most Westerners, and thus it would be easy to conclude they are immature by a Westerner's standards. I have discussed it with my Korean friends many times. Strangely, they never got so worked up as you did about it! |
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Scott in HK
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: now in Incheon..haven't changed my name yet
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| Posted: Sun May 02, 2004 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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I really don't want to come in on the side of the horse...as he insulted me when he insulted kiwiboy...i am just a teacher...
But I don't think it is right to start saying that most Westerners find staying at home with their parents alien...the last couple of decades have found a lot more people staying home while they went to university and even after...it also found people going home after struggling with the world...
I don't think we can classify people as immature just because their social structure encourages them to stay at home until they are married...if you are going to do that...you are going to have to add in the majority of people in Hong Kong and China to the list of immature people. I would suspect this is true in other cultures where the family unit holds so much importance...I am thinking of India here...but I would have to check my facts...
You also can't use travel as an example either. Most nations when they first start to travel tend to stay together...Koreans have not been international tourists that long...I can remember the swarms of Japanese bus tours heading through Canada...herd mentality and all...I think that Koreans are just young travellers...they should get better as things go along
And it is also not fair to compare the eating practices of a multi cultural nation with those of a homogeneous (spelling) one...for a host of reasons that I can't get into as the bell as just rung....exposure being one of them....and time for the restaurant to take hold...most cultural restaurants in canada were probably supported by a local population before the rest of the city found out about them.... |
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