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K-pop and Korean national pride - I don't get it.
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mayorgc

Joined: 19 Oct 2008

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 7:54 pm Post subject:

You clowns need to grow up. There's a lot of stuff about Korea worth griping about, such as sexual assaults, crap cops or corruption. Kpop isn't on that list. You people ragging on Psy/Kpop are just as bad as those Koreans who praise everything Korean.

DejaVu

Joined: 27 Jan 2011
Location: Your dreams

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 8:32 pm Post subject:

TheUrbanMyth wrote:

DejaVu wrote:

[

Because it is certainly undeserving of pride.

Because the lyrics are written in Japan and the USA, among others.

Because this is how they define themselves as a people.... rather than other things about Korea which are much more deserving of pride...

.

So all 50 million Koreans or so define themselves by K-pop?

One wonders how they defined themselves before K-pop was invented.
Rolling Eyes

Someone please teach me how to make a signature on this forum, or would it be easier to just copy and paste?

"When I talk about Koreans as a whole, I am speaking in generalizations. Of course I could not speak of an entire country's psychology/culture/language/ideas without having to generalize. This does not mean that I should not do so. If I can never generalize, then what is the point of psychology, sociology, wisdom, ETC.? Therefore, when I say 'Koreans do this or that.', please try to assume (for once in your life) that I understand there are exceptions."

Alas, picking up on exaggerations will also help you survive in the world.

mayorgc wrote:

You clowns need to grow up.

There's a lot of stuff about Korea worth griping about, such as sexual assaults, crap cops or corruption. Kpop isn't on that list.

You people ragging on Psy/Kpop are just as bad as those Koreans who praise everything Korean.

I've no problem with crap cops. I drive my scooter through red lights, on the sidewalk, and on the wrong side of the street. It's great. I've no reason to complain about sexual assaults. That's something that will take years to change and your everyday citizen can't change it.

However, Koreans that put so much of their identity and pride into something like K-pop only upsets me because it means that I can never fully respect those people. It's similar to idiots back home who get into fist fights over their sports team. How could I ever respect such a person? Therefore, it angers me that they've put me in such a position.

The worst problem is the sheer numbers of Koreans I've met that fit this description.

rainman3277

Joined: 13 Sep 2009

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 8:39 pm Post subject:

1) "We did it! We won! We are the best this year!" = patriotic 2) "We did it, and you didn't! We are the greatest ever!" = nationalism I will congratulate any citizen that exhibits 1) and want to kick in the arse people who exhibit 2).

cj1976

Joined: 26 Oct 2005

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 9:19 pm Post subject:

Korean people are quite ethnocentric and a lot of people have real difficulty in understanding the values and beliefs of other cultures. They aren't aggressively nationalistic (or jingoistic) like the USA, but their actions come about usually due to a lack of awareness.

mayorgc

Joined: 19 Oct 2008

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 10:32 pm Post subject:

DejaVu wrote:

hmmm, crap cops are ok and sexual assaults are ok (no complaints from you). But Kpop is somehow a more serious issue.

Yup, it's pretty obvious who has got their head screwed on straight.

Moondoggy

Joined: 07 Jun 2011

Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 12:07 am Post subject:

dairyairy wrote:

It isn't worth arguing over this song. Let the kids dance but it's not a big deal. A Korean hit record doesn't have the financial impact because of Korean piracy of music, the size of the Korean market, and the fact that videos matter more than music in Korea.

The song isn't that big of a deal if you think about it. For all of the hullaballoo about the song it is only 64th on the U.S. Singles chart, which is the highest for any Korean performer in music history. So it has over 100 million youtube hits. How many hits do other videos like sneezing panda and British kid biting his brother's finger have?

sorry to burst your bubble. but it moved up to 11th this week and will soon be #1, and 230million youtube hits. moreover PSY has now become the first k-pop star to have a single be number one on the US iTunes singles chart.

http://www.apple.com/euro/itunes/charts/top10songs.html

as one poster mentioned, why people get so bitter when something from korea becomes popular worldwide? they try so hard to downplay global popularity of kpop, psys gangnam style particularly. are they simply jealous or in shock or flat out stupid?

tiger fancini

Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Location: Testicles for Eyes

Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 12:10 am Post subject:

DejaVu wrote:

Koreans that put so much of their identity and pride into something like K-pop only upsets me because it means that I can never fully respect those people. It's similar to idiots back home who get into fist fights over their sports team. How could I ever respect such a person? Therefore, it angers me that they've put me in such a position.

It seems that the problem is yours. You can't respect them. You get angry with them. Do you really think that they care whether you respect them or not? They are probably not losing any sleep or typing spiels on online message boards about how you don't respect them.

alongway

Joined: 02 Jan 2012

Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 12:39 am Post subject:

Scorpion wrote:

Shouldn't Canada's proximity to the United States give it a smaller international presence? Not a larger one? And isn't Mexico, with a much larger population that Canada, also in close proximity to the States. There's also a hell of a lot more Mexicans living within US borders than there are Canadians. What's Mexico's international standing? So I don't see what proximity has got to do with Canada's larger international presence. Surely it should be overshadowed.

No, because Canada often does things with the US. So whenever the US goes to do something internationally the Canadians tag along (literally often by sending military gear together on the same ships) so it's always "the Canadians are here too"

Canada is also famous for hockey which helps elevate it's awareness in most of Europe.

Yes, Canada does produce a lot of talent that gets gobbled up by America, and the ones that don't totally sell-out usually mention that somewhere which helps increase awareness of the country.

Quote:

Listen, I know that many Americans have problems with Canadians on this site, but your proof that Canadians are overly nationalistic is a random google search that produced 3 somewhat legit results for some random thing? Try that search with any country and see what comes up.

I'm Canadian. My proof is that I lived there and had to suffer through the "Canadian connection" every time a big news story broke in the states. Is was almost worth reading american news sources just so that every story didn't have to have that tacked on to it.

And what are you talking about 3 legitimate results, there are more than 3 on the first page alone:
2 different articles on Richard III
The soccer fixing scandal (I did say that the stories weren't always positive)
Steve nash story
Soccer story about Marshall
Mention of Ben Aflek's movie and it's "canadian connection"
etc

Canadians aren't overly nationalistic in the sense that they think everything they do is the best (outside of hockey) they are overly nationalistic in that they just desperately want to connect everything in the world that happens of note to Canada because it is somehow proof that the country is relevant. Global, CBC, CTV all the same. Any time a big news story came on, they'd introduce give a bunch of information and if it was a long piece, they'd end with "And when we come back, the Canadian Connection to these events".

When K POP singers, kdramas, etc do well for Koreans it's a similar thing. It's evidence that they are relevant and that they matter. As a nation that means something to some people.

Quote:

Anyway, you're still not addressing the point that Canadian kids don't make over the top nationalistic speeches about the global dominance of C-pop (we don't even have anything called that) or the cancer curing capabilities of poutine. Stop trying to steer the conversation into yet another diatribe against Canada. I'm not even trying to be anti-Korean. I was merely talking about the content of my students' speeches. You can live with whatever fantasy you want about Canadians, but I was talking about a real thing with real people. I'm sure that I can google to "prove" a lot of things about a lot of nationalities, too. But let's stay based in reality, shall we?

Actually I specifically addressed that:

Quote:

Yes the kids don't make speeches about it, but it's pretty annoying.

As I said, it's a different kind of nationalism. It's still nationalism, its still desperate and annoying.

edwardcatflap

Joined: 22 Mar 2009

Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 1:19 am Post subject:

Quote:

as one poster mentioned, why people get so bitter when something from korea becomes popular worldwide? they try so hard to downplay global popularity of kpop, psys gangnam style particularly. are they simply jealous or in shock or flat out stupid?

How do you expect people to react if they don't like the genre/music? Do you expect non-Koreans to be pleased about the fact that a type of music they don't particularly like from another country is gaining worldwide appeal? At best they're probably going to be indifferent about it. If they find the music really irritating they're going to find the fact that it's becoming more popular slightly irritating as well. Because it means they'll have to listen to it, and people going on about it, more often. Notice I said slightly irritating as just because people post on here about disliking PSY or K Pop doesn't mean that they have psychological problems or it's a particularly big deal in their lives. As a lot of people seem to be trying to claim (like the poster below. Unless he's tongue in cheek. not quite sure)

Last edited by edwardcatflap on Fri Sep 21, 2012 1:38 am; edited 1 time in total

alongway

Joined: 02 Jan 2012

Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 1:26 am Post subject:

Quote:

Because there is a segment of the expat population who feels utterly trapped and disappointed with their life. What ever led them to be in Korea, they simply can't accept it and the only way for them to cope is try and tear down Korea at every turn.

If everyone would just believe that Korea sucks as much as they think it does, then they would some how feel better about their life.

These are usually people who really didn't want to be in ESL, they studied something else and failed at it, came to Korea only because they heard it paid the most, and are just general malcontents and failures at life. They can't adjust to their new life and lash out whenever they feel the opportunity.
If people thought Korea was good, how could they justify acting like such giant jerks all the time?

transmogrifier

Joined: 02 Jan 2012
Location: Seoul, South Korea

Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 1:40 am Post subject:

edwardcatflap wrote:

Quote:

How do you expect people to react if they don't like the genre/music?

I wouldn't expect them to go on a forum and start a thread with the general premise that an entire country is full of idiots because they are proud about a countryman doing well overseas.

And I also wouldn't expect them to propose the thesis that those same people are idiots because they apparently never did a thing for themselves in their entire history.

I would expect them to say "Bloody hell this music sucks, I wish Korea would diversify its musical palette" and then take a mouthful of beer and get on with there lives.

Don't fool yourself into thinking the motivation of everyone posting here is simply to register their dislike of a certain style of music (and in general it is bad, very, very, very bad). It is, as usual, yet another brick in the wall of the super-thesis, that Korea is no good at everything.

Seoulman69

Joined: 14 Dec 2009

Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 2:00 am Post subject:

Quote:

The population of Scotland is upward of 5 million people.
15,000 people is something like .3% of that.
Is there some new statistical math where 'the majority' is not even the majority of 1% of the population?

I see you didn't mention the other factors that I mentioned in support of the claim that the majority of Scots are proud of Andy Murray.
More people turned out for Andy than for past Queen and Prince visits. Double the population of his hometown turned out to see him.
Every Scot I've talked to have been very proud of him. And the first minister makes a congratulatory message.
Most people would agree it looks like the majority of Scots are proud of Andy.

Now let's think about a foreigner going to Scotland, not speaking English, and saying they don't like Andy Murray. I'm guessing a large percent of Scots would not take kindly to that person. Perhaps not a majority, but a large percent.

Quote:

How do you expect people to react if they don't like the genre/music?

I would expect a child or teenager to bitch and moan about it. I would expect an adult to not let it bother them.
But this isn't just about K-pop. This is about people's strange, immature, and spiteful reactions to Koreans being proud of their success abroad.

edwardcatflap

Joined: 22 Mar 2009

Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 3:48 am Post subject:

Quote:

Ok point taken but it's all about degrees isn't it. Expressing your opinion about an art form doesn't seem exclusively juvenile behavior to me. Saying something along the lines of 'Koreans tend to be more vocally proud of their international successes than other nationalities' (for whatever reason) doesn't seem to be particularly spiteful, immature or inaccurate.

PatrickGHBusan

Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -

Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 3:53 am Post subject:

Quote:

.

+1

coralreefer_1

Joined: 19 Jan 2009

Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 5:11 am Post subject:

PatrickGHBusan wrote:

Quote:

.

+1

Just gonna throw this out there to further the angst of those moaning about Gangnam Style

I dont particularly like the song, and the dance seems pretty much to be the same one done 20 years ago, but with that said, I just watched a player for the NY Giants do the dance after scoring a TD. When a Korean dude can get folks like that doing their moves, he has arrived.

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