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Korean Job Discussion Forums "The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
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Seoulo
Joined: 20 Nov 2003 Location: Gumi
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Posted: Sat May 01, 2004 5:55 pm Post subject: Recruiters Fees? |
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Does anyone know how much recruiters actually get paid for their services? I've heard figures of anything from 50% all the way up to a full months wage of the new employee. |
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prairieboy
Joined: 14 Sep 2003 Location: The batcave.
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Posted: Sat May 01, 2004 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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The recruiter my last school used was paid 1million won per teacher placed. And they had an exclusive agreement with that chain, so imagine the money they made placing teachers. Several teachers each month and that was not the only industry they did recruiting for.
Cheers |
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kangnamdragon

Joined: 17 Jan 2003 Location: Kangnam, Seoul, Korea
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Posted: Sat May 01, 2004 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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The recruiters have expenses too: advertising, phone bills, etc. |
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Grotto

Joined: 21 Mar 2004
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Posted: Sat May 01, 2004 7:53 pm Post subject: recruiters |
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Recruiters can get paid anywhere from 1,000,000 won to 3,000,000 depends on how bad the school needs a teacher, teachers qualifications and location, location, location. It is easy to place teachers in big cities but some rural areas have alot more difficulty. |
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chronicpride

Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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Posted: Sun May 02, 2004 1:48 am Post subject: |
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We usually charge 800-900,000 Won in the larger markets, but with the smaller schools and smaller areas, we often charge 1,000,000 Won, as they have less access to teachers and recruiters.
As Koreans are into developing trust and developing long-term relationships, often you will see a fee go up after a year or two of a successful relationship. Perhap to 1.1-1.2 million Won.
We called about 15-20 recruiters before we started getting involved in the biz and cold-shopped them for their fees. The highest was 1.3, the lowest was 1.0. As with all things, I would imagine that these would be negotiable depending on the situation.
I do know of a recruiter in Seoul that has a tight relationship with some schools and he accidentally CC'd me on an email that was intended to a school. My Korean secretary at the time translated it and she said that he was quoting a fee of 1.5 plus 400,000 for the airport pickup at Incheon.
I haven't seen nor heard anything more than this, however.
PS, Further to what Kangnam said, there are expenses that often get overlooked.
There are website fees (design and development, hosting, domain fees, web marketing fees, advertising fees), office fees (to have a registered recruitment company in Korea, you have to have an office. Not a home office. And as you may know, real estate in Korea is a factor not easily ignored), long-distance calling fees (a good recruiter will use phone more than email, however dealing with 40 resumes per job, means a lot of calling/qualifying.), payroll(if they are a bigger operator (5-10+ placements/month), they will be out talking to schools a lot. A secretary, plus 1 or 2 admin assistants to deal with inbound/outbound calls and emails. Fortunately, salaries for these type of positions are cheaper in Korea than back home, but a cost to factor in, nonetheless.), transportation (driving around to meet directors, pick up teachers at airports, etc..), and after-service (meeting the needs of after-service can run up one's time more than costs.) And as money=time, this affects the bottomline.
Some recruiters offer no after-service to schools and teachers and just deal in empty promises and volume recruiting. They don't last long, as directors are moving away from them. The better ones are always ironing out wrinkles in contract or working relationships between teachers and schools.
Many directors use the recruiters as a 'foreign teacher manager' to act as an ongoing intermediary to discuss problems with one's teaching style or attitude, as well as more technical issues (recruiter having to work with immigration on an ongoing basis for the school's teachers or work with budongsans (real estate agencies) to find and locate new accommodation.).
I have one recruiting friend in Daegu that has become more of a foreign teacher manager than recruiter, and as a result has strayed a little away from his core business and revenue.
So it's not all gravy in this biz. There are significant costs to be concerned. In addition to your sanity. People always owing you money and chasing down accounts receivables. Dealing with ultra-picky teachers. Dealing with ultra-picky directors. Being overwhelmed with resumes and emails from teachers and trying to find time to review, respond, interview and develop a good shortlist for your schools, all while out doing your running around meeting school directors and performing the other needs of the business.
That's why you see a ton of operations come and go. People think that this is an easy way to make a buck, but then get tossed around like a ragdoll for a year over the volatility and unpredictability of the business, and pull out. |
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Mankind

Joined: 18 Jan 2003
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Posted: Sun May 02, 2004 4:53 am Post subject: |
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2 things made me laugh in this thread.
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The recruiters have expenses too: advertising, phone bills, etc. |
Where did this come from? The OP asked how much they got, and you're already trying to defend the amount, when nobody attacked it.
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In addition to your sanity. People always owing you money and chasing down accounts receivables. Dealing with ultra-picky teachers. Dealing with ultra-picky directors. Being overwhelmed with resumes and emails from teachers and trying to find time to review, respond, interview and develop a good shortlist for your schools, all while out doing your running around meeting school directors and performing the other needs of the business.
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This sounds a little like a construction worker saying, 'It's not all whistling at girls, you know. You have to pickup heavy stuff and build things too". Basically you're saying a recruters job is tough, because he has to do his job, which he picked in the first place. WOW imagine that?
The true is recruiting is one of the easier jobs in Korea based on its renumeration. The only tough part is dealing with people to get your money (like any business). But this gets much easier with time. The rest is kinda easy, although talking to a lot of teachers gets boring. Also, unlike the teachers you place, you need ZERO qualificatins.
HAND  |
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chronicpride

Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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Posted: Sun May 02, 2004 5:41 am Post subject: |
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Mankind wrote: |
The truth is recruiting is one of the easier jobs in Korea based on its renumeration. The only tough part is dealing with people to get your money (like any business). But this gets much easier with time. The rest is kinda easy, although talking to a lot of teachers gets boring. |
As a recruiter for the past 2 years, I have to strongly disagree with you on this. But you're entitled to your opinion based on your vantage point.
Mankind wrote: |
Also, unlike the teachers you place, you need ZERO qualificatins. |
I have to agree with you on this. A recruiter just needs an office and a business license. Just like a teacher needs a degree (fake or not). Both positions in Korea require little or no experience. Same as a director. If you've got the start-up capital, you can get a school. No experience or special qualifications required.
Personally, I think teaching in Korea is hands down the most easiest job, based on renumeration (recruiters don't get free round-trip airfare, free accommodation, 50% medical coverage, paid vacation, severance bonuses, working 25-30 hours/week or less, plus a regular salary at a 5% income tax rate, to boot) and consistency of that renumeration. |
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Mankind

Joined: 18 Jan 2003
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Posted: Sun May 02, 2004 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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Well since you asked
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Personally, I think teaching in Korea is hands down the most easiest job, based on renumeration (recruiters don't get free round-trip airfare, free accommodation, 50% medical coverage, paid vacation, severance bonuses, working 25-30 hours/week or less, plus a regular salary at a 5% income tax rate, to boot) and consistency of that renumeration. |
Free air 1 Million
Housing 4 Million (usually shit too)
50% Medical LOL 400,000 (why are owners so cheap, pay it all!)
Vacation a week WOW
Severence 2 million
Taxxes are not 5% and regular (read the tax laws)
Consistency of that renumeration (what?) Half the complaints about Korea are in regards to the inconsitancy of the renumeration.
Basically all those great things about teaching are legally enforced and meet only the minimum the law dictates. Total value around 8 million. So you are talking about 30 million a year for around 1200 hours of work. Are you trying to say that a recruiter can't place 30 teachers a year? I've never heard of a recruiter spending 40 hours of time per teacher, more like 5-10, so that seems like a much higher 'hourly' pay to me.
Please be honest with people.
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chronicpride

Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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Posted: Sun May 02, 2004 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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Mankind wrote: |
Well since you asked
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Personally, I think teaching in Korea is hands down the most easiest job, based on renumeration (recruiters don't get free round-trip airfare, free accommodation, 50% medical coverage, paid vacation, severance bonuses, working 25-30 hours/week or less, plus a regular salary at a 5% income tax rate, to boot) and consistency of that renumeration. |
Free air 1 Million
Housing 4 Million (usually *beep* too)
50% Medical LOL 400,000 (why are owners so cheap, pay it all!)
Vacation a week WOW
Severence 2 million
Taxxes are not 5% and regular (read the tax laws)
Consistency of that renumeration (what?) Half the complaints about Korea are in regards to the inconsitancy of the renumeration.
Basically all those great things about teaching are legally enforced and meet only the minimum the law dictates. Total value around 8 million. So you are talking about 30 million a year for around 1200 hours of work. Are you trying to say that a recruiter can't place 30 teachers a year? I've never heard of a recruiter spending 40 hours of time per teacher, more like 5-10, so that seems like a much higher 'hourly' pay to me.
Please be honest with people.
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I think where we disagree on this debate, is on the workload and schedule of a recruiter.
If you don't factor in any expenses, no surprises, and it's a seamless process, than I agree with your position.
It may sound like a cop out, but I think for you to have a clearer perspective of where I may be coming from, then you should recruit for a month or two. I don't mean to word it like 'if you think it's so easy, then why don't you try it for awhile.', which would be condescending and inflammatory of me to insinuate, but the way that this business looks on paper, is a lot different upon execution.
Maybe other recruiters are having better success than us, and you mention that you know some that are spending a lot less time per teacher and perhaps at less expense. But, as I posted earlier in this thread, there are a lot of expenses involving money and time, that get overlooked when people look at recruiting. Once you get right involved with it, your perspective changes. Many people come in and have dreams of placing 30+ teachers a year. The reality and unpredictability of this business chews up and spits out a lot of people.
The only reason why I remain in this, is because I genuinely like helping people. That may get a scoff and a laugh by some on this board, but you asked me to be honest with people, and I'm trying to be as candid as possible.
But as I mentioned above, I can't prove to you in words how volatile and wildly unpredictable that this business is and I would just recommend that you try it for a bit. Your experience may reinforce your opinion, or you might see mine a little more clearly. Everyone runs a different operation from the next and sees things with different sets of eyes.
I'm sorry if my earlier posts rang a hint of dishonesty. It wasn't my intention.
PS., I was basing my 5% tax rate quote on what my withholding tax rate was at my last school. The rate spread is actually 3.5-7%, however if I have erred in my research, then I humbly apologize. |
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chronicpride

Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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Posted: Sun May 02, 2004 10:14 pm Post subject: |
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deleted (double-post)
Last edited by chronicpride on Tue May 04, 2004 7:16 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Mankind

Joined: 18 Jan 2003
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Posted: Mon May 03, 2004 1:18 am Post subject: |
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Quote: |
I may be coming from, then you should recruit for a month or two. I don't mean to word it like 'if you think it's so easy, then why don't you try it for awhile.', which would be condescending and inflammatory of me to insinuate, but the way that this business looks on paper, is a lot different upon execution.
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I've done it, and do it now (been here 7 years). I really think its easy money compared to teaching braty little kids all day. There isn't a newbie teacher in Korea that any half decent recruiter would trade jobs with. Thats what I meant before. Recruiters often try to make the job sound brutal and hard, and really it's not to bad. Its a pretty sweet gig if you're good at it (people skills).
Oh and tax rates are actually based on income. It's a little wierd how it's really worked out. Most schools charge 3-7% a month, cause I think we understand it better ( and they pocket 10 bucks). On 2 million you pay around 35 a month I think.
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Hagwon Muppet
Joined: 18 Mar 2003
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Posted: Mon May 03, 2004 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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I don't think I would mind doing some ad-hoc recruiting work on a part-time basis to supplement a steadier income but I'm not sure if I would rely on it or want to make it my main job.
Too many inconsistent, over-demanding, nightmares on both sides of the director-potential teacher relationship.
I think I've only met 1 director and about 6 teachers that I would like to do business with. |
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jajdude
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
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Posted: Tue May 04, 2004 9:46 am Post subject: |
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400,000 for airport pickup? That's a bit funny. |
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