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MiXX
Joined: 30 Aug 2012
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 Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 10:57 am Post subject: Military Police |
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How much rights do these people have in dealing with civilians?
Last week in Songtan they took my beer from me on the street. I didnt have no ID
Then tonight they came in a club after 1am and was asking to see my ID.
Can I just tell them I am not in the military and to fug off?
I dont feel like I should have to show them any ID. |
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ajosshi
Joined: 17 Jan 2011
Location: ajosshi.com
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| Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 11:49 am Post subject: Re: Military Police |
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| MiXX wrote: |
How much rights do these people have in dealing with civilians?
Last week in Songtan they took my beer from me on the street. I didnt have no ID
Then tonight they came in a club after 1am and was asking to see my ID.
Can I just tell them I am not in the military and to fug off?
I dont feel like I should have to show them any ID. |
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hellofaniceguy
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: On your computer screen!
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| Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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Well...by law....one is suppose to carry their ID at all times....so by saying you have no ID only invites trouble....
and you did not clarify...what military police....korean? U.S.? NATO?
we'll go with...U.S. for now....
if you have the military look....and you know what the look looks like.....then without ID...you invited trouble until it could be proven you are not military....
sure...you can tell them to screw off....but they won't and they will get the upper hand until proven you are not military...
and the korean cops WILL back the MP's play until it's proven that you're not military.
And yes they can ask for ID....do they have the right....most think no....as do I....but...it's so easier to just show the ID and be done with it!
If you tell them...I have no ID and tell them to screw off and you try to walk away....they will stop you.
Now......If you are in the U.S......out drinking in town NEXT to a military base....the MP's do patrol off base and they CAN ask for your ID...you refuse....you just bit off more than you can chew....not only will they detain you until the local cops come on the scene...once the local cops arrive...they are going to run your name through the system for warrants, etc....and even though you may be clean...no warrants....they will still give you grief until they let you go! |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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First off, I don't believe the OP. Next, disregarding that, it is a good question except for the, what, thousand times or so it's been asked and answered on this board so far.
The Military Police of the United States Armed Forces have ZERO authority over non-SOFA civilian personnel off-base. What they can do, though, is contact the local police and direct those police officers to you. Oh, they also have the right to protect themselves and others from imminent danger, say if you lunged at them because you weren't happy with them demanding you present your identification card to them. The MPs also have no authority over civilian personnel off-base in the US, except as provided for by law (citizen's arrest, local authorities deputizing members of the MP, etc.). Note that this applies to MPs, not to NCIS who so happen to be a federal law enforcement agency with much broader arrest authority.
But what the hey, let's pretend your situation is true: what are you doing walking around on the street with an open container of alcohol? I mean besides reinforcing negative stereotypes of foreigners? |
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Paddycakes
Joined: 05 May 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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When I get ID's in Itaewon and asked if I'm military by the MPs, I just tell them I'm a Navy SEAL and they walk away laughing...
Works every time. |
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MiXX
Joined: 30 Aug 2012
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| Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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| CentralCali wrote: |
First off, I don't believe the OP. Next, disregarding that, it is a good question except for the, what, thousand times or so it's been asked and answered on this board so far.
The Military Police of the United States Armed Forces have ZERO authority over non-SOFA civilian personnel off-base. What they can do, though, is contact the local police and direct those police officers to you. Oh, they also have the right to protect themselves and others from imminent danger, say if you lunged at them because you weren't happy with them demanding you present your identification card to them. The MPs also have no authority over civilian personnel off-base in the US, except as provided for by law (citizen's arrest, local authorities deputizing members of the MP, etc.). Note that this applies to MPs, not to NCIS who so happen to be a federal law enforcement agency with much broader arrest authority.
But what the hey, let's pretend your situation is true: what are you doing walking around on the street with an open container of alcohol? I mean besides reinforcing negative stereotypes of foreigners? |
I didnt know it was against Korean law (is this even the case?) to walk around with an open container. So, that should answer your question as to why as to why I was doing that. In many parts of the world that is legal and perfectly fine.
I know they can direct Korean police to you, but I am wondering if they can try and detain you / not allow you to walk away as they are waiting on the Korean police to arrive.
I dont mind being asked, but when I say I am not military that should be enough. |
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nero
Joined: 11 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 8:26 pm Post subject: |
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| hellofaniceguy wrote: |
Well...by law....one is suppose to carry their ID at all times....so by saying you have no ID only invites trouble....
and you did not clarify...what military police....korean? U.S.? NATO?
we'll go with...U.S. for now....
if you have the military look....and you know what the look looks like.....then without ID...you invited trouble until it could be proven you are not military....
sure...you can tell them to screw off....but they won't and they will get the upper hand until proven you are not military...
and the korean cops WILL back the MP's play until it's proven that you're not military.
And yes they can ask for ID....do they have the right....most think no....as do I....but...it's so easier to just show the ID and be done with it!
If you tell them...I have no ID and tell them to screw off and you try to walk away....they will stop you.
Now......If you are in the U.S......out drinking in town NEXT to a military base....the MP's do patrol off base and they CAN ask for your ID...you refuse....you just bit off more than you can chew....not only will they detain you until the local cops come on the scene...once the local cops arrive...they are going to run your name through the system for warrants, etc....and even though you may be clean...no warrants....they will still give you grief until they let you go! |
Whoa! Good information, but excessive use of ellipses indicates a mental disorder!
Just an FYI... |
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Stan Rogers
Joined: 20 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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| The MPs are just doing their job. There is no need to overreact. I say be respectful toward others, in uniform or not. They are not out to get you. |
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MiXX
Joined: 30 Aug 2012
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| Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Stan Rogers wrote: |
| The MPs are just doing their job. There is no need to overreact. I say be respectful toward others, in uniform or not. They are not out to get you. |
I know its their job, the thing is when I say I am not military that should be enough.
I don't feel like I should be forced or asked to provide ID to people that have no authority over me what so ever. |
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mayorgc
Joined: 19 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 9:57 pm Post subject: |
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| MiXX wrote: |
| Stan Rogers wrote: |
| The MPs are just doing their job. There is no need to overreact. I say be respectful toward others, in uniform or not. They are not out to get you. |
I know its their job, the thing is when I say I am not military that should be enough.
I don't feel like I should be forced or asked to provide ID to people that have no authority over me what so ever. |
I'm not American, so take it for what it's worth.
From what I can remember, if you are asked to present ID and you don't have any on you, they have the right to detain you until it's proven that you aren't military. If they have to drive you to their base to do so, they will do that. After they prove you aren't military, they'll let you go, and you'll have to walk back to wherever you came from.
I don't know if it's Legal. And I don't even know if it's true. |
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Keeper
Joined: 11 Jun 2012
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| Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 10:02 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="MiXX"]
| Stan Rogers wrote: |
I know its their job, the thing is when I say I am not military that should be enough.
I don't feel like I should be forced or asked to provide ID to people that have no authority over me what so ever. |
You obviously look like you are in the military, why don't you grow your hair out and/or stop going to bars near bases to pick up women(who also happen to think you are in the military)?
Bring your ID, problem solved. They can detain you for the local police to check who you are and make your life a lot more uncomfortable. It's still your move. |
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Kepler
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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"The commander of the United States Forces Korea (USFK) apologized yesterday for the illegal detention of three Korean civilians by U.S. military policemen following a brawl outside Osan Air Base in Pyeongtaek, Gyeonggi."
http://koreajoongangdaily.joinsmsn.com/news/article/article.aspx?aid=2955831
Your beer was illegally confiscated. Maybe you should demand an apology from the USFK commander too. Next time you could make a recording with your phone camera so that you would have evidence of what happened. |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 11:40 pm Post subject: |
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| mayorgc wrote: |
| From what I can remember, if you are asked to present ID and you don't have any on you, they have the right to detain you until it's proven that you aren't military. |
Wrong. They have no authority to demand identification from non-SOFA personnel.
| Quote: |
| If they have to drive you to their base to do so, they will do that. After they prove you aren't military, they'll let you go, and you'll have to walk back to wherever you came from. |
Also wrong. The MPs cannot apprehend non-SOFA personnel except in the very limited case where such personnel are posing a physical threat to the MPs or other persons. In such case, the MPs may detain the threatening person until the arrival of KNP on scene. They cannot kidnap you.
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| I don't know if it's Legal. And I don't even know if it's true. |
Not legal, definitely not true. It does, however, have certain similarities to one version of the story involving the Town Patrol personnel mentioend upthread. |
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lemak
Joined: 02 Jan 2011
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| Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 12:35 am Post subject: |
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Why give them the aggravation? You're drinking in a military 'ville. These sorts of things are expected. That area outside Osan AB is one of the sanest, most relaxed places to go eating and drinking in Korea in no short part due to the job the MPs do keeping the locals, military, and other visitors behaving civil. It's a massive contrast to Itaewon. Night and day. No need to start creating silly tensions and unnecessary conflict.
You'd be surprised at what a good memory some of these MPs have too.
Visit a few times and they'll fast recognize you and leave you alone. Might even find they're decent guys. Not to mention they're the ones whose asses you'll be hiding behind if you piss off a bunch of military brats or other a-holes out to give you a smacking. Would certainly rather deal with them than the KNP.
They were always ultra-respectful to me. Usually thanked me and apologized for bothering me when I'd show them my ARC. Doesn't really help me, them, or the situation to act all superior and argumentative about my rights which at the end of the day I don't believe they're infringing on anyway. |
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Skippy
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Location: Daejeon
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| Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 2:23 am Post subject: |
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Why make something difficult? I mean a simple smile and a excuse me while you get your wallet to show your ARC. Easy. You want to be difficult and make something simple to a whole ordeal that will likely in the end cause more grief.
A similar thread about this topic.
http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?p=1616072
I think at the most the MPs can hold you, until a proper Korean official can ask for you ID. Which surprise YOU WILL have to do. It is the law to have your ARC or passport with you at all times.
Immigration Control Act
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Article 27 (Carrying and Presentation of Passport, etc.)
(1) A foreigner sojourning in the Republic of Korea shall carry at all times his/her passport, seaman�s identification paper, foreigner entry permit, foreigner registration certificate or landing permit (hereinafter referred to as "passport, etc."): Provided, That this shall not apply to a foreigner under 17 years of age.
(2) When an immigration control official or a competent public official demands a foreigner under the main sentence of paragraph (1) to present his/her passport, etc. in carrying out the official�s duty, the foreigner shall present his/her passport, etc. |
As to the beer and open container laws. Do not know, but I would suspect it will likely break some law. Believe me if some Korean police officer had to leave his cozy desk or car to get some foreigner to show his ID, believe me they will find something to make your life difficult. |
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