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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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 Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 6:55 am Post subject: |
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| Actually, yes, yes it is that the MPs are asking for identification off-base from non-SOFA personnel. The simple fact of the matter is the MPs have no lawful authority to conduct "massive sweeps" off-base. Thee's a nifty little thing called civil rights. And, yes, civil rights actually do exist in Korea, even for foreigners in Korea. |
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The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
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| Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 7:01 am Post subject: |
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| wuzza wrote: |
| Iv'e been out with friends who talked the big talk about telling the MPs to f-off, only to see them crumble as soon as they realized that it doesn't get you anywhere to argue, and it only ruins everyone's night. |
This is the part I don't get.
How does this ruin anyone's night?
People keep going on about it not being a big deal to just show it to them...fine.
But it isn't that big a deal to not show it to them either.
But crumbling? Really?
Growing a set would be the larger issue. |
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radcon
Joined: 23 May 2011
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| Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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| To all of you that say " just show them your id, stop being a hippy punk, you never put on the uniform, they are just doing there job.": Would it be ok if next time you are out eating dinner with your wives/girlfriends that I come up to your table and ask for your id? |
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newb
Joined: 27 Aug 2012
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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| I bet y'all won't have any problem showing your ID to seek sanctuary in the US military bases or ports to evacuate from Korea in the event of war. |
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radcon
Joined: 23 May 2011
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| Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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| newb wrote: |
| I bet y'all won't have any problem showing your ID to seek sanctuary in the US military bases or ports to evacuate from Korea in the event of war. |
I am under no illusion that the US army would evacuate civilians if the Norks invade. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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| wuzza wrote: |
| CentralCali wrote: |
I get on with my life by not rolling over to people with no authority over me. You know, like the USFK military police off-base have no authority. |
I wonder how long you would hold that line if the Korean Navy Patrol Officer then said that as he couldn't determine whether you were Korean Navy Personnel or not, he would have to hold you until an American Police Officer came, and asked for your ID, at which time you would have to show it anyway.
I've been ID-ed a few times, and the MPs have always been extremely polite. It's not like they're frisking you up against a wall or inputting your whereabouts into a Big Brother computer.
FWIW, I also don't believe you should have to show your ID, but it's a lose-lose situation to protest it. Iv'e been out with friends who talked the big talk about telling the MPs to f-off, only to see them crumble as soon as they realized that it doesn't get you anywhere to argue, and it only ruins everyone's night. |
Yeah, because one thing is for sure- those guys WILL make you take out your idea. If you standup to them and get away with it,the next table will try the same thing and they lose their authority and they won't be going on too long before they get reprimanded.
The guys don't have jurisdiction over normal folks outside of base. but practical concerns mean that they can ask for IDs, even if its technically not permissible because otherwise they'd probably have certain difficulties in performing their duties.
| Quote: |
| To all of you that say " just show them your id, stop being a hippy punk, you never put on the uniform, they are just doing there job.": Would it be ok if next time you are out eating dinner with your wives/girlfriends that I come up to your table and ask for your id? |
Are you in an MP/KNP uniform? Are you acting in the official capacity of a government agency? Do you have a badge or other ID? Are you working in cooperation with other law enforcement agencies?
Those things mean something. |
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yfb
Joined: 29 Jan 2009
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| Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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Worst topic on Dave's so far.
Just show your ID and quit crying about it. The MPs not like the TSA where they send you through a nudie machine or grope you. |
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radcon
Joined: 23 May 2011
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| Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
Are you in an MP/KNP uniform? Are you acting in the official capacity of a government agency? Do you have a badge or other ID? Are you working in cooperation with other law enforcement agencies?
Those things mean something. |
US government agencies and US law enforcement agencies have no power over me in Korea. So those things mean nothing. I have a badge and a police uniform from an old halloween costume. So now can I ask for you to identify yourself since have the same amount of authority in Korea as MPs. |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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| wuzza wrote: |
| CentralCali wrote: |
I get on with my life by not rolling over to people with no authority over me. You know, like the USFK military police off-base have no authority. |
I wonder how long you would hold that line if the Korean Navy Patrol Officer then said that as he couldn't determine whether you were Korean Navy Personnel or not, he would have to hold you until an American Police Officer came, and asked for your ID, at which time you would have to show it anyway. |
In the United States, a Korean military law enforcement office would detain me? That's a laugh riot right there, friend.
| Quote: |
I've been ID-ed a few times, and the MPs have always been extremely polite. It's not like they're frisking you up against a wall or inputting your whereabouts into a Big Brother computer.
FWIW, I also don't believe you should have to show your ID, but it's a lose-lose situation to protest it. Iv'e been out with friends who talked the big talk about telling the MPs to f-off, only to see them crumble as soon as they realized that it doesn't get you anywhere to argue, and it only ruins everyone's night. |
Where did I say to curse out the MPs? I simply stated a fact: the MPs have no authority over me. And guess what? I know a tad more about what the millitary is and can and cannot do than Joe Average Poster here as I'm retired from the US Navy. |
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transmogrifier
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
Location: Seoul, South Korea
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| Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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| The Cosmic Hum wrote: |
Growing a set would be the larger issue. |
Yes, because the true test of manhood is crying about civil rights in a night club in Itaewon to a couple of MPs who really couldn't give a shit who you are if you are not army.
I love how in a country where so many of the foreign men spend their working day in the company of kids, displays of masculinity are of the utmost importance, even in the most trivial of situations.
Last edited by transmogrifier on Thu Oct 04, 2012 3:54 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| Yeah, because one thing is for sure- those guys WILL make you take out your idea. |
Yeah, right.  And how exactly do you think they'll force me to show them my identification?
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| If you standup to them and get away with it,the next table will try the same thing and they lose their authority and they won't be going on too long before they get reprimanded. |
You can't lose what you've never had. The MPs--for about the thousandth time--do not have authority to check identification of non-SOFA personnel; the MPs have no authority over non-SOFA personnel off-base.
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| The guys don't have jurisdiction over normal folks outside of base. but practical concerns mean that they can ask for IDs, even if its technically not permissible because otherwise they'd probably have certain difficulties in performing their duties. |
Yet again: the MPs do not have the authority nor the duty to check identification of non-SOFA personnel off-base.
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Are you in an MP/KNP uniform? Are you acting in the official capacity of a government agency? Do you have a badge or other ID? Are you working in cooperation with other law enforcement agencies?
Those things mean something. |
The person in a US military uniform means nothing to me off-base. If he's demanding I prove to him my identity, he is not acting lawfully. The Korean police office, on the other hand, may be acting lawfully when he demands my identification. Note that I said may be. Even the cops have to follow the law. Just "looking foreign" or "looking like one may be in the US military" is not suspect behavior.
Last edited by CentralCali on Thu Oct 04, 2012 3:54 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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transmogrifier
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
Location: Seoul, South Korea
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| Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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| radcon wrote: |
| To all of you that say " just show them your id, stop being a hippy punk, you never put on the uniform, they are just doing there job.": Would it be ok if next time you are out eating dinner with your wives/girlfriends that I come up to your table and ask for your id? |
Are you in uniform working in an official capacity? If that was not immediately obvious, then I would ask to see your ID first. Given the gormlessness of your hypothetical situation, I assume your ruse would be completely transparent, and I'd tell you to piss off.
In a club in Itaewon, where MPs are common and obvious, I would show my ID and get on with the business of enjoying my night. I agree that everyone has the right to refuse, but personally, I wouldn't, because I don't care in this instance. Tough to imagine for you, I guess, but try. |
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rollo
Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China
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| Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Amazing how the same people who complain about being harassed by G.I.;'s get all internet tough guys who are there to keep them from being messed with by G.I's ask them for an I.d. As for the evacuation of civilians , yeah they will evacuate. During a the big crisis in the late ninties when it looked like Clinton would bomb North Korea, it was absolutely stunning to see all the G.I haters talking of how they would head to a military post if the bombs started dropping. Transmorgifier got it right after a day of babysitting kindy acting all macho on the internet is all you got. |
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radcon
Joined: 23 May 2011
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| Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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| All of guys on this thread who have no interest in civil liberties and willingly do things you are not legally required: why are you making this to be about tough internet warriors who teach kindy acting aggressively to soldiers. Where did any one mention that they want to fight the soldiers. Just the opposite actually. Civil liberties are there to protect those without physical or political power, otherwise we have have the law of the jungle. Show your id if you want to, but it is also my right to respectfully decline or ignore such a request from the MPs. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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| US government agencies and US law enforcement agencies have no power over me in Korea. |
Unless the Korean government decides to cooperate with them and grant them certain authority.
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| I have a badge and a police uniform from an old halloween costume. So now can I ask for you to identify yourself since have the same amount of authority in Korea as MPs. |
That would be impersonating a law enforcement officer, a criminal offense.
You seem to forget that MPs in Korea actually have law enforcement authority. It only applies over military personnel but they have actual authority.
Your Cracker Jack badge has zero authority.
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| Yeah, right. And how exactly do you think they'll force me to show them my identification? |
Summon the Korean police, who DO have the authority to compel you to show your ID. Between the two- the MPs and the KNPs, one of them will have that authority.
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| You can't lose what you've never had. The MPs--for about the thousandth time--do not have authority to check identification of non-SOFA personnel; the MPs have no authority over non-SOFA personnel off-base. |
They do have authority over SOFA personnel. So if you refuse to show your ID, what's to stop the table full of soldiers in civilian clothing right next to you from pulling the same thing? If the MP looks weak in front of you, what do you think will happen at the next table?
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| Yet again: the MPs do not have the authority nor the duty to check identification of non-SOFA personnel off-base. |
Yes, they technically don't. But do you think they will get a stern reprimand for checking the IDs of a few English teachers who happen to be in some bar right next to the base?
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| The person in a US military uniform means nothing to me off-base. If he's demanding I prove to him my identity, he is not acting lawfully. The Korean police office, on the other hand, may be acting lawfully when he demands my identification. Note that I said may be. Even the cops have to follow the law. Just "looking foreign" or "looking like one may be in the US military" is not suspect behavior. |
You seem to think that either the cops care or someone else would care in that situation. That's amusing.
What, you think there's never been a case where some GI decided to claim he was an English Teacher and maybe tried to make some claim of "You can't demand my ID"? I'm willing to be that that's happened before. And I'm willing to bet that in order to prevent that they will find a way to see your ID, one way or the other.
And if you do frequent that bar, and odds are the MPs might too, do you really want to cop an attitude with the MPs who when they're off duty, might decide to beat the crap out of you. Of course you can rest comfortable knowing that the KCops and the MPs will totally back you over them. |
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