Korean Job Discussion Forums

[ghostrider]

[Jimskins]

Erm...everything doesn't necessarily have to ride on the 수능, if they do 수시 instead their final score depends on their overall GPA, volunteer activities, if they were class president etc.

Some fair (if already highlighted a thousand times before) points but very sloppy research. It seems the Korea Times will publish anything English-looking these days.

[Porksta]

Unfortunately Albert Einstein was a great student.

[coralreefer_1]

In some ways, I agree with this notion, and yet disagree.

The test does seem like a much to heavy burden to young people. However I disagree with this article on several points.

First, while the test itself is only a measure of the person in regards to what "they know that day" (like all tests) I think it is exactly because of the test that students study as much as they do. Its no secret Korean students rank very highly in world standings in core subjects, and while I fully agree that students should have more avenues to explore creative arts, this should not come at the expense of having some of the most educated youngsters in the world.

Even if the test were to be, as suggested, counted as only 30% of admissions criteria, students would still be studying nearly as much as they do now, but yet then struggling to find time for these "extra" things such as somehow showing their "character" or volunteer work..etc. If such were to happen, I believe we would find nearly all students submitting fake volunteer certificates, or otherwise fabricating this or that as such things cannot truly be measured in a realistic way.

I think the much larger problem is what happens AFTER the test, in that the kids work their rear end off and have a level of knowledge right out of high school that would equal a good portion of Junior year US college students in regards to core subjects, but yet they find themselves in a university that totally drops the ball in regards to maintaining that level of excellence. Even the kids who may not be selected to enter such universities as SNU, Korea U, Yonsei, KAIST. etc are still FAR beyond their counterparts in many other countries..however even the lower end of top-tier universities, and especially mid/low tier universities pretty much allow students to waste their time and money for a degree that is handed out pretty much for showing up for class and turning in a single report often copied/pasted from the web.

Its like spending a huge amount of time and money to purchase and restore a classic car, only to cover it with a tarp and hide it away forever. All that talent and knowledge those kids were pushed to achieve in high school is pretty much abandoned by all but a hand full of universities and institutions. So many simply end up at some mid tier school, party around for 4 years, then find themselves at a job where the boss sits behind them burning holes in their backs all day while they do tasks that require little to none of the high level high school education, or even college education.

Personally, if that is how much of the university system is going to work, then I think their should be no test at all, and in place of a CSAT score, their high school scores should be used, at least in this way emphasis would be placed on a broader range of time, rather than one day where a student may be sick, preoccupied, or otherwise not having a good day when that all important CSAT test is taken.

Otherwise, I would suggest keeping that status quo, but making some SERIOUS changes regarding the university system. I do not think this requires better professors and such, but it simply requires changing the mindset that EVERYONE should have a college degree, changing the university culture where students feel they should not have assignments each week, professors who are not so afraid of evaluation reports by students to actually demand they read their books, turn in assignments that are original and display at least a basic level of understanding of the
subject, and otherwise making efforts to continue to maintain the level of excellence expected of kinds in high school.

In short, astronomical levels of study in high school followed by undersea levels of study in universities dont make sense. I believe it would be better to slightly lower high school levels, and slightly raise university levels so there can be a somewhat less steep slope of education in the transition between the two.

[Underwaterbob]

[jvalmer]

[andrewchon]

[Otus]

[madoka]

Einstein was a pretty good student in everything but French:

http://www.nytimes.com/1984/02/14/science/einstein-revealed-as-brilliant-in-youth.html?pagewanted=1

[Steelrails]

Did the author really just use William Shakespeare as an example?

There wasn't even public education during Shakespeare's time...Most people weren't lettered. The average life expectancy was something like 40 years old and subsistence farming was a fact of life for many.

Anyways, I think University here and back home is completely watered down and should be much more exclusive.

[Otus]

[KimchiNinja]

[StudentInKorea]

I think we can all agree that the best students at a second tier university are better than the worst students at a top tier university. This is something the admission office for master degrees should take into consideration. My top tier uni accepts 95%+ of the undergraduate students from their own uni, but the students I see from other uni's always come from other top tier unis. It seems virtually impossible to get accepted from a tier 2 uni, the only people I know from such universities seems to have been accepted through various quotas.

If you don't get into the university you want to, a good solution should be to be your best during your undergrad studies so you can go somewhere better for your master's, instead of retaking the entrance exam. It is however not only a problem with the admission office for the masters degree, but some blame should also be given to the tier 2 unis. There is a reason why they don't accept student from these unis, and one of them is massive grade inflation and tests which hardly measure how much you have learned at all, such as giving A+ for attendance or copying last years exams so the students know all the answers.

[Steelrails]

Upon further thought I think the author is over-exaggerating things on both sides and isn't even making a coherant argument.

His example of "Joe" involves someone who already was accepted into a decent university. Just because he took awhile to graduate doesn't change that. Plenty of Korean students take a break in the middle of their studies. Many go off to the army.

Next, I'm pretty sure that if you don't go to college in both countries the job prospects are fairly dim, but success is not impossible to achieve. The author makes it seem that "failing" results in an exile to a life of taxi cab driving. Sorry, but unless you are an absolute dunce, not doing as well as you hoped merely means you go to a lower level university and probably a middle-level job as a bureaucrat or something.

Most of those kids who are committing suicide are ones who felt intense pressure to go to a SKY Uni and were only good enough to go to a middle level. The problem isn't a lack of second chances, it's excessive expectations and too much pressure. Most kids who don't have "it" to get into a university at all know it and pursue other careers. They may kill themselves for other reasons, but a lack of 2nd chances isn't among them.

But what the author fails to note is that in Korea, due to family structure, there exists options that can still provide a safety net such as taking over the family restaurant or store. It is not the end of the world for a person in Korea to live with their parents and work out of their family store. It is not ideal but it is not cause for scorn.

The big problem with Korean suicides is the fact that the people lack imagination on how to succeed, NOT that all avenues for success are closed off upon a disappointing result (and as far as I know, there are retakes). That and the perception of their family and their peers that there is only one path to success. I'm willing to bet that those with a good support network of friends can often give them a positive outlook after a disappointing result by outlining alternative paths (some perhaps of dubious nature) to success.

Now this doesn't mean that there isn't a suicide problem in Korea. It's just that I don't think the author has correctly identified the root cause.