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I'm With You
Joined: 01 Sep 2011
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 Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 11:56 am Post subject: |
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| Swampfox10mm wrote: |
| Or you're too old or not pretty enough. |
Readers of the forum not yet teaching in Korea might find this strange, but local professors often do comment on applicants' body types. I've watched good candidates get rejected by search committees for being "too scary looking", "too large", "too old", and even "too young", etc.
Yes, being good looking always helps. Blonde hair and blue eyes - Ken and Barbie types. It compensates for being under-qualified and inexperienced.
| Swampfox10mm wrote: |
| Or you just didn't know the right people. |
And there it is. Regardless of one's academic qualifications, how many conference presentations they might have, or even their physical appearance, this is a society that puts a lot of weight on "the recommendation." I've known a number of people over the years who have been hired at universities simply by word-of-mouth. They knew people working at those universities. As a result, they went straight to the front of the line. |
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I'm With You
Joined: 01 Sep 2011
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| Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Highwayman wrote: |
| I'm With You wrote: |
| whiteshoes wrote: |
| For whatever it's worth to you, I was rejected by Ewha, Hanyang, and Kookmin. I've got an MATESOL 2 years at a uni and a few conference presentations. |
I recall a time, not all that long ago, either, where you would be in the top five to ten percent of teachers with those kinds of qualifications - master's, conference presentations.
Now those even with master's degrees aren't even guaranteed an interview, never mind a job, at universities.
Times have certainly changed. |
Indeed. And not for the better, anywhere for people in the EFL industry it seems. |
Yeah, I agree. I'm hearing similar stories in other places, also.
I've had a couple of friends in Korea with several years university teaching experience each look into teaching at the university level in Taiwan. Both have said that there's no opportunity there at the moment and schools either aren't hiring or it's all done by word of mouth.
Japanese universities? Forget about it. 98% of the university TEFL teachers in Korea wouldn't even make it to an interview in Japan. Japanese universities are notoriously demanding of gaijin applicants. Many Japanese universities now want gaijin applicants to have at least 2-kyu or 1-kyu Japanese language proficiency, 3 refereed publications minimum, and a Ph.D degree in a relevant field. |
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Saudiman
Joined: 12 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 5:43 am Post subject: |
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Don't work for Yeungjin College FLI in Daegu if you can help it.
These people lie like crazy. They sent me a contract to sign, which I did, and then once I was in Korea they wanted me to sign one that knocked 500,000 won of my monthly pay.
The Korean woman who was in charge was whiny and antagonistic from the get-go, and very anti-Western.
They told me they wanted me to teach at their English Village just out of town. I did, and enjoyed it. But trying to teach on that campus was nearly impossible.
The attitudes of the three expatriate males who teach there (2 Canadians and a Kiwi) border on insane! They bullied at least two teachers out by treating them as inferior, and they suck up to the incompetent Korean management whatever they say. These trash usually come to work hung over and no Korean comments about it because they are all good-looking.
For these reasons (deceitful contracts, pay and work environment) I would never recommend Yeungjin. Stay far away. |
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Stan Rogers
Joined: 20 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 6:49 am Post subject: |
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| I'm With You wrote: |
| Swampfox10mm wrote: |
| Or you're too old or not pretty enough. |
Readers of the forum not yet teaching in Korea might find this strange, but local professors often do comment on applicants' body types. I've watched good candidates get rejected by search committees for being "too scary looking", "too large", "too old", and even "too young", etc.
Yes, being good looking always helps. Blonde hair and blue eyes - Ken and Barbie types. It compensates for being under-qualified and inexperienced.
| Swampfox10mm wrote: |
| Or you just didn't know the right people. |
And there it is. Regardless of one's academic qualifications, how many conference presentations they might have, or even their physical appearance, this is a society that puts a lot of weight on "the recommendation." I've known a number of people over the years who have been hired at universities simply by word-of-mouth. They knew people working at those universities. As a result, they went straight to the front of the line. |
Some universities up in Seoul (not naming names) push the responsibility for hiring or making the short list on the foreign teachers already there. There are so many resumes pouring in, and the Koreans responsible for hiring don't want to deal with the process of sifting through thousands of resumes. Most resumes applicants send in never get past the foreign screeners. |
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zpeanut
Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Location: Pohang, Korea
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| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:47 am Post subject: |
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It boggles the mind when you check out the teachers profile list of some institutions.
Wouldn't want half of them at my school based on academic background and looks.
I know its wrong to judge by appearance but it counts for a lot here and it seems I might be on the wrong page...
Just wondering, what would be suitable interview attire? Same as back home?
They're not going to judge me for wearing a pencil skirt right? |
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Hugo85
Joined: 27 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm With You wrote: |
| Japanese universities? Forget about it. 98% of the university TEFL teachers in Korea wouldn't even make it to an interview in Japan. Japanese universities are notoriously demanding of gaijin applicants. Many Japanese universities now want gaijin applicants to have at least 2-kyu or 1-kyu Japanese language proficiency, 3 refereed publications minimum, and a Ph.D degree in a relevant field. |
They want that for TEFL positions or for actual Professor position? I don't see how having refereed publications is relevant to TEFL really... |
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nutriaboy
Joined: 04 May 2010
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 8:47 am Post subject: |
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| With 14.5 years experience in Japan, the last 6 in a university I would say that is indeed what a Japanese university will ask for, but will then often settle for someone with an MA in TESOL and a few publications who is recommended by one of the trusted present or previous foreign faculty. |
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think_balance
Joined: 23 Jun 2008
Location: San Jose, CA
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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What is 'too old' in Korea?
Also, may I bounce a plan of action off you all?
I'm currently applying for some jobs in Japan. I'd like to get some experience there and then transition to teaching at a university in Korea.
I'd be 42 years old when I started looking in Korea. I have an MA TESOL, three years experience teaching ESL at the university level here in the U.S.
Would I likely be able to land a uni position straight away? Or would it be better to teach via EPIK and then transition to a uni?
Also, I'm interested in teaching in Incheon as it has declared itself an English City and is strongly promoting English learning there.
Anyone care to offer feedback on my plans? |
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thrylos
Joined: 10 Jun 2008
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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| think_balance wrote: |
What is 'too old' in Korea?
Also, may I bounce a plan of action off you all?
I'm currently applying for some jobs in Japan. I'd like to get some experience there and then transition to teaching at a university in Korea.
I'd be 42 years old when I started looking in Korea. I have an MA TESOL, three years experience teaching ESL at the university level here in the U.S.
Would I likely be able to land a uni position straight away? Or would it be better to teach via EPIK and then transition to a uni?
Also, I'm interested in teaching in Incheon as it has declared itself an English City and is strongly promoting English learning there.
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42 isn't too old for a uni job. You would be a good candidate with your qualifications and experience. Only problem is that most of the good uni jobs usually want at least a couple of years of 'Korea' experience and most K-unis want you to be in-country when applying-- though not all.
Working in Japan would be a bonus, but it may be even harder to land a job there than it is here, unless you're talking about a non-uni/private school job in Japan.
As for Incheon as an 'English City', wait a blink of an eye, and it won't be anymore. It also doesn't guarantee that there are more jobs or better support/infrastructure there. Think of it more as a marketing 'flavor of the moment' until a new administrator comes into office and changes the strategy. You're more likely to land a uni job outside a big city than in one, initially at least. Best of luck. |
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think_balance
Joined: 23 Jun 2008
Location: San Jose, CA
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the input.
As for needing experience in a K-school, would it be worth it for me to do Epik for a year or so, then? Further, how do Uni hiring periods align with end dates at EPIK or other non uni jobs? That is, if I want to transition from a 'lower level' job to a Uni, will I be able to do that w/o breaking contact AND w/o having to wait more than a month or two between the two jobs?
As for Incheon as an English city - they made that declaration in 2007 but yes, time will tell if they keep up with that. I really do want to work in an area that is pushing hard for English bilingualism - I think that would be a fantasic environment in which to work.
As for Japan? I've been working towards the goal of Japan for longer than I'll admit to. I'm betting heavily on JET at the moment - if that falls through, I'll wait one more year to save up a bit more of a nest egg then take the best job I can find over there and stay for two years before going to Korea.
Have to admit I'm a little apprehensive as I have fantastic job in the tech industry right now - but I've wanted to do this for so long that I refuse to stay here much longer. |
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transmogrifier
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
Location: Seoul, South Korea
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Stan Rogers wrote: |
Some universities up in Seoul (not naming names) push the responsibility for hiring or making the short list on the foreign teachers already there. There are so many resumes pouring in, and the Koreans responsible for hiring don't want to deal with the process of sifting through thousands of resumes. Most resumes applicants send in never get past the foreign screeners. |
I'm not sure why you say this like it is a bad thing. I work at a university that does this and our staff is almost without exception a bunch of great people committed to their jobs. |
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I'm With You
Joined: 01 Sep 2011
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 6:36 pm Post subject: |
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| transmogrifier wrote: |
| Stan Rogers wrote: |
Some universities up in Seoul (not naming names) push the responsibility for hiring or making the short list on the foreign teachers already there. There are so many resumes pouring in, and the Koreans responsible for hiring don't want to deal with the process of sifting through thousands of resumes. Most resumes applicants send in never get past the foreign screeners. |
I'm not sure why you say this like it is a bad thing. I work at a university that does this and our staff is almost without exception a bunch of great people committed to their jobs. |
I absolutely hate it and do consider it a bad thing.
And that's why university teaching positions for foreign TEFL teachers aren't really university positions. They provide university-like working conditions but they aren't really faculty positions.
So in this sense, I guess the Korean profs can't be bothered to deal with foreign TEFL teachers, who they normally look down on, and just get one of the trusted white barbarians to screen new applicants. The typical hiring and vetting process for Korean professors doesn't apply when hiring a foreign TEFL teacher, so anything goes. And let's be honest here, most Korean professors don't want to have to deal with the foreign TEFL staff.
There's all kinds of problems with this, though. |
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Hugo85
Joined: 27 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:36 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm With You wrote: |
I absolutely hate it and do consider it a bad thing.
And that's why university teaching positions for foreign TEFL teachers aren't really university positions. They provide university-like working conditions but they aren't really faculty positions.
So in this sense, I guess the Korean profs can't be bothered to deal with foreign TEFL teachers, who they normally look down on, and just get one of the trusted white barbarians to screen new applicants. The typical hiring and vetting process for Korean professors doesn't apply when hiring a foreign TEFL teacher, so anything goes. And let's be honest here, most Korean professors don't want to have to deal with the foreign TEFL staff.
There's all kinds of problems with this, though. |
Unigwon! |
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I'm With You
Joined: 01 Sep 2011
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Hugo85 wrote: |
| I'm With You wrote: |
I absolutely hate it and do consider it a bad thing.
And that's why university teaching positions for foreign TEFL teachers aren't really university positions. They provide university-like working conditions but they aren't really faculty positions.
So in this sense, I guess the Korean profs can't be bothered to deal with foreign TEFL teachers, who they normally look down on, and just get one of the trusted white barbarians to screen new applicants. The typical hiring and vetting process for Korean professors doesn't apply when hiring a foreign TEFL teacher, so anything goes. And let's be honest here, most Korean professors don't want to have to deal with the foreign TEFL staff.
There's all kinds of problems with this, though. |
Unigwon! |
Right.
So if they aren't true faculty positions, then what are they?
Visiting Instructors?
Guest Instructors?
Contract Instructors? |
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transmogrifier
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
Location: Seoul, South Korea
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| Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:16 am Post subject: |
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| I'm With You wrote: |
| transmogrifier wrote: |
| Stan Rogers wrote: |
Some universities up in Seoul (not naming names) push the responsibility for hiring or making the short list on the foreign teachers already there. There are so many resumes pouring in, and the Koreans responsible for hiring don't want to deal with the process of sifting through thousands of resumes. Most resumes applicants send in never get past the foreign screeners. |
I'm not sure why you say this like it is a bad thing. I work at a university that does this and our staff is almost without exception a bunch of great people committed to their jobs. |
I absolutely hate it and do consider it a bad thing.
And that's why university teaching positions for foreign TEFL teachers aren't really university positions. They provide university-like working conditions but they aren't really faculty positions.
So in this sense, I guess the Korean profs can't be bothered to deal with foreign TEFL teachers, who they normally look down on, and just get one of the trusted white barbarians to screen new applicants. The typical hiring and vetting process for Korean professors doesn't apply when hiring a foreign TEFL teacher, so anything goes. And let's be honest here, most Korean professors don't want to have to deal with the foreign TEFL staff.
There's all kinds of problems with this, though. |
A lot of words without ever saying why it is so bad, expect that apparently it shows that the Korean professors don't treat us as equals. Who gives a crap? At our uni, it allows us to hire good teachers. The end. |
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