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Bloopity Bloop
Joined: 26 Apr 2009
Location: Seoul yo
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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 Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
You don't starve to death on 1200 calories. You start to lose weight, and eat away at various reserves, but chances are slim you'd starve to death. No doubt though over time you'd develop various health issues if you intake was so severely limited though.
I've never heard of 100 grams per sitting for protein. It was a doctor that told me 40 (on average)- not a magazine or company.
Yes, much of what we ingest is either expelled as waste, or stored as fat. No one is talking about magic. We're talking about the body's ability to digest protein into amino acids -if you're eating protein for conversion into glucose/energy, you're going about it ass backwards. |
Re:the 1200 thing. You could still end up dead whatever the cause and likely would if you stayed on that long enough. And yeah I know the 100 grams is higher than anything I've heard either...I was simply using that number to show that even a much higher rate of protein absorption isn't going to work.
40 grams a sitting? Once again I've never seen any basis for any upper limit. Why would the body (if it requires a certain number of calories) not absorb that much? And if protein is the primary source (which it was in my example...why would it stop at 40 if it requires more?
That makes no sense. The body utilizes what it needs and will expel or convert the excess which brings me to my last point.
No one said anything about eating protein for conversion into glucose/energy. We are talking about someone eating a high protein diet and if you don't have sufficient carbs in your diet for the body to change into glucose then it will use some of the protein for that. I'm describing what happens not what you should eat it for. |
Then there is some confusion - when most people say that the body can only digest X amount of protein, they are meaning for conversion into amino acids - NOT for conversion into glucose.
If you want to eat protein as your primary source of energy, so be it. But if you figure that you can get ALL of the amino acids from one sitting... well, then I'd have to question your requirements - or ask you to go for it.
You seem awfully stuck on calories... when your own links have shown that there's far more to it.
I notice how you edited out my 'challenge'? Not willing to go for it?
| Captain Corea wrote: |
Here's a proposition for you guys that dig this approach - do it! Try it for 6 months, or a year. Eat ALL of your daily caloric needs in ONE SITTING for the whole time. Take before and after pics/stats.
Lets see how it plays out for ya. |
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Bloopity Bloop
Joined: 26 Apr 2009
Location: Seoul yo
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:51 pm Post subject: Re: IIFYM - Nutrition made simple + Nutrition myths debunked |
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| Kepler wrote: |
| Bloopity Bloop wrote: |
Are you really gonna argue with a bunch of BODYBUILDERS about losing weight and getting ripped?
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This reminded me of something I recently read on Tim Ferriss' blog:
"Arthur Jones, founder of Nautilus, when asked how to gain muscular mass quickly, recommended the following (I paraphrase): Approach the biggest bodybuilder at your gym, ideally a ripped 250�300-lb professional, and politely ask him for detailed advice. Then do precisely the opposite. If the T-Rex�size meathead recommends 10 sets, do one set; if he recommends post-workout protein, consume pre-workout protein, etc.
"Jones�s tongue-in-cheek parable was used to highlight one of the dangers of hero worship:
"The top 1% often succeed despite how they train, not because of it. Superior genetics, or a luxurious full-time schedule, make up for a lot."
http://www.fourhourworkweek.com/blog/the-4-hour-chef-meta-sampler/ |
Ok, poor word choice. These are just a bunch of guys who care about getting fit and looking good. Just look at the bodybuilding forums. I'd sooner believe what's been working for them than your avg. NSET on these boards.
MOST are not bodybuilders (OBVIOUSLY). |
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Bloopity Bloop
Joined: 26 Apr 2009
Location: Seoul yo
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:55 pm Post subject: |
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| fermentation wrote: |
You're telling me, my health and performance will be the same whether I eat fried chicken or a plate of salad as long it meets my nutritional requirements?
Which corporate interests does eating 5 meals a day serve?
What does "results" here mean? Is it just about being ripped, or does it also include athletic performance? |
I tend to use a bit too much hyperbole in my writing. In the general picture of your health, DON'T be overly concerned with eating at specific times or a number of meals you must eat.
If you're hungry, eat. If you're not, don't. Just make sure you hit your maintenance TDEE for the day (or caloric deficit/surplus if you're cutting/bulking).
If you don't go extreme with this (which I guess I made it seem like you should), it's OBVIOUSLY better for your mental and overall health to quit the 5 or 6 meal a day deal. |
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Bloopity Bloop
Joined: 26 Apr 2009
Location: Seoul yo
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:00 pm Post subject: Re: IIFYM - Nutrition made simple + Nutrition myths debunked |
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| KimchiNinja wrote: |
| Bloopity Bloop wrote: |
| Meal timing is a waste of time. Eat when you want. |
Q: Is this some sort of new science-fad in the US? Like the "protien diet" failed, and the "cabbage soup diet" failed, and so now it's the eat "whatever/whenever diet"? Everyone keeps saying this new fantastic theory on the internet like they have unlocked the secrets of nature!
Yet the Koreans believe you should not eat after dinner hour, and you should be careful about the quality of the food, and they are thin, and USAers are fat.
So it's obvious who is correct. |
I like how you've overlooked a huge number of factors to come up with this (is this even real?) conclusion.
It ISN'T a new fad. You think early humans gave a crap about when they ate? NO. OH, it's bed time, I better keep that mammoth steak for tomorrow.
Americans tend to gorge themselves or eat way more calorically dense foods than Koreans. Add the lack of walking and you have people eating on a caloric surplus.
Most Koreans I know barely eat or eat foods that aren't calorically dense and thus are close to maintenance or on a deficit.
Also, Korea has the fastest rising obesity rate in Asia. Hm... I wonder why. Maybe because calorically dense foods are on the rise here? The younger generation would rather have a Big Mac than rice and kimchi for lunch. Or so I was led to thought by the HUGE numbers of college kids I saw every single day for 2 years near Hanyangdae vs the empty jiggae/hanshik places.
But continue making conclusions the way you have. |
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Bloopity Bloop
Joined: 26 Apr 2009
Location: Seoul yo
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:03 pm Post subject: Re: IIFYM - Nutrition made simple + Nutrition myths debunked |
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| The Cosmic Hum wrote: |
If your intention is to be helpful, you might want to be careful making statements like this.
Do you really believe that statement?
People can easily eat all the calories that they need for a day in one meal.
Are you seriously suggesting it would be the exact same? |
My tendency towards hyperbole strikes again.
If one were to do so from time to time, in terms of overall fitness, it wouldn't be an issue. Meal timing has no significant effect on body composition or fitness gains over the long-term.
That's one thing that causes a lot of people to fail... looking at fitness as something short-term. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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| I've got no problem putting my theory, body, and lifts up against you on this. Feel free to accept my 6 month or 1 year challenge, Bloopity. |
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Bloopity Bloop
Joined: 26 Apr 2009
Location: Seoul yo
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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Obviously, I get carried away when I write. Although I DID at that part at the end urging you to keep moderation in mind... it'd be helpful to actually READ the links I supplied, particularly the first. That person ALSO emphasizes that IIFYM extreme-ism is dangerous.
However, it really is an awesome philosophy in that it urges you to look at your body composition and physical AND mental health over the long-term. Why stress over stuff like meal timing and every single bit of food you eat for nothing? |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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Why stress over anything? The point is... you're saying that you can get ALL you need in one meal.
Put it to the test.
Step off of the internet and into real life - Do it!
I'd love to see how it works for you.
While I'll keep on with that 'old style' of watching when I eat stuff. |
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Bloopity Bloop
Joined: 26 Apr 2009
Location: Seoul yo
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
| I've got no problem putting my theory, body, and lifts up against you on this. Feel free to accept my 6 month or 1 year challenge, Bloopity. |
Why would I eat all my calories in one meal for a week, let alone a year? I haven't been following you or TUM's convo here but I will conceded that I didn't express myself as well as I should have earlier.
Just because you CAN do something, doesn't mean you should take it to that extreme. In general, meal timing is pointless and I'll just eat when I'm hungry. Or not eat if I've had a huge meal and am not hungry for the rest of the day. Over a period of 6 months, I don't think it'd make a difference as long as I'm hitting my numbers.
Also, I fail to see how this challenge would play out in the first place. Your goals might be mass/max lifts. I'm looking more for aesthetics. Don't see how we'd gauge if you were more successful in lifting more vs. me looking more defined. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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Ohh... I'm down for an aesthetics challenge. In fact, I'd prefer it.
You come on here talking about
| Quote: |
Everything you've been taught about nutrition has most likely been pseudoscience fed to your by corporate interests. Take these myths for example (I also gleaned these off the bodybuilding forums--if you want scientific links to back the following up, search the forums):
- Meal timing is a waste of time. Eat when you want. If you could eat all the calories you needed for a day (which I hope you've calculated using the second link I posted *HINT HINT*) in one meal, it'd be the exact same thing as spreading them over 5 to 6 small meals as so many "nutritional experts" will tell you to do.
- Unless you're diabetic, throw the Glycemic Index out the window. Your body won't implode from having a sudden influx of donuts and apple fritters. |
So by all means, lets do this. You eat whenever you want, whatever you want - so long as it fits your macros. Timing MEANS NOTHING! Be sure to eat that friend chicken before bed if you're hungry.
Craving a cake, wake up and eat it!
I've helped numerous guys dial in for shows, and have no fear of stepping up to this sort of challenge. |
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Bloopity Bloop
Joined: 26 Apr 2009
Location: Seoul yo
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
Ohh... I'm down for an aesthetics challenge. In fact, I'd prefer it.
You come on here talking about
| Quote: |
Everything you've been taught about nutrition has most likely been pseudoscience fed to your by corporate interests. Take these myths for example (I also gleaned these off the bodybuilding forums--if you want scientific links to back the following up, search the forums):
- Meal timing is a waste of time. Eat when you want. If you could eat all the calories you needed for a day (which I hope you've calculated using the second link I posted *HINT HINT*) in one meal, it'd be the exact same thing as spreading them over 5 to 6 small meals as so many "nutritional experts" will tell you to do.
- Unless you're diabetic, throw the Glycemic Index out the window. Your body won't implode from having a sudden influx of donuts and apple fritters. |
So by all means, lets do this. You eat whenever you want, whatever you want - so long as it fits your macros. Timing MEANS NOTHING! Be sure to eat that friend chicken before bed if you're hungry.
Craving a cake, wake up and eat it!
I've helped numerous guys dial in for shows, and have no fear of stepping up to this sort of challenge. |
You want a competition based on aesthetics? 
Objectively... how would that even work? I go for the look I want? You go for the look you want? And then we see who's improved more compared to before pics? What?
I think I'll pass. If you want to say this is me backing down on what I'm saying 'cause I don't wanna waste my time proving my beliefs on an internet forum, that's totally fine.
I stand by what I've said here and will ENJOY my 2-week vacation home without stressing about every little (probably not gonna be so little) thing I eat. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
If you want to eat protein as your primary source of energy, so be it. But if you figure that you can get ALL of the amino acids from one sitting... well, then I'd have to question your requirements - or ask you to go for it.
You seem awfully stuck on calories... when your own links have shown that there's far more to it.
I notice how you edited out my 'challenge'? Not willing to go for it?
| Captain Corea wrote: |
Here's a proposition for you guys that dig this approach - do it! Try it for 6 months, or a year. Eat ALL of your daily caloric needs in ONE SITTING for the whole time. Take before and after pics/stats.
Lets see how it plays out for ya. |
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You keep misreading my posts. Again I said nothing about eating protein as a primary source of energy. I was talking about eating protein as a primary source of CALORIES.
And I edited out your challenge because it doesn't apply to me. I clearly stated even BEFORE you issued this challenge the possible negatives of eating only one meal a day. Clearly I wasn't ever in support of this idea.
Mind dropping the snarky tone now?
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| However the flip side of this if you DID only eat one meal a day, you'd likely end up fatter and with a significantly lower metabolism. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Bloopity Bloop wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
Ohh... I'm down for an aesthetics challenge. In fact, I'd prefer it.
You come on here talking about
| Quote: |
Everything you've been taught about nutrition has most likely been pseudoscience fed to your by corporate interests. Take these myths for example (I also gleaned these off the bodybuilding forums--if you want scientific links to back the following up, search the forums):
- Meal timing is a waste of time. Eat when you want. If you could eat all the calories you needed for a day (which I hope you've calculated using the second link I posted *HINT HINT*) in one meal, it'd be the exact same thing as spreading them over 5 to 6 small meals as so many "nutritional experts" will tell you to do.
- Unless you're diabetic, throw the Glycemic Index out the window. Your body won't implode from having a sudden influx of donuts and apple fritters. |
So by all means, lets do this. You eat whenever you want, whatever you want - so long as it fits your macros. Timing MEANS NOTHING! Be sure to eat that friend chicken before bed if you're hungry.
Craving a cake, wake up and eat it!
I've helped numerous guys dial in for shows, and have no fear of stepping up to this sort of challenge. |
You want a competition based on aesthetics?
Objectively... how would that even work? I go for the look I want? You go for the look you want? And then we see who's improved more compared to before pics? What?
I think I'll pass. If you want to say this is me backing down on what I'm saying 'cause I don't wanna waste my time proving my beliefs on an internet forum, that's totally fine.
I stand by what I've said here and will ENJOY my 2-week vacation home without stressing about every little (probably not gonna be so little) thing I eat. |
Yeah, that's pretty much how it'd work - how all aesthetic challenges work.
You post up this theory full of hyperbole, and then when caled on it, you've got jack.
You say you can eat it all in one session, then back down.
The Internet is full of warriors like you - big on theories, short on application. I was hoping you'd step up and take the friendly challenge - worst case scenario, we both push to be in better shape.
Heck, I'd even be down for meeting and training in person.
Instead, it just stays as one guy spouting off his theories - not willing to actually put his body where his mouth is.
BTW, take a look at the age of the OP in the BB.com article you linked to - see anything interesting there? |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:02 pm Post subject: |
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FWIW, OP, the reason I've chimed in with "such passion" and issued that challenge, was because of your wording. You didn't come here and suggest a new/different style to try, you came in here and said "timing is BS"... Where as I know from experience that it isn't.
So this isn't all about the theory, it's a fair bit about your wording. |
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