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Commonly misunderstood English words
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Captain Corea

Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul

Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 4:40 am Post subject:

Pension. Kdef: A resort or guesthouse Edef: A retirement fund (but note that in parts of Europe it matches the Kdef)

fermentation

Joined: 22 Jun 2009

Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 4:47 am Post subject:

Loser Kdef: Short guy. Edef: A guy who doesn't have a job, can't get laid, and lives in his mom's basement.

mnjetter

Joined: 21 Feb 2012
Location: Seoul, S. Korea

Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 6:02 am Post subject:

alongway wrote:

It might be if you didn't fundamentally misunderstand word origin and use.

To each their own. Judging from this response, I am beginning to think that you fundamentally misunderstand the difference between "misunderstand" and "disagree with." I know exactly what you're trying to say. I'm not arguing with the origin of the word, nor its existence as a Konglish term. I'm simply asserting that the things that you are claiming (while true) are not relevant to the veracity of my own claim.

Quote:

Just because they've lost the root of a word doesn't change where the word actually came from and why it's used.

It doesn't change where the word actually came from, but it most certainly does change why it's used. Etymology is interesting, but does not automatically come into play when it comes to currently used definitions.

nautilus

Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!

Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 6:37 am Post subject:

alongway wrote:

Quote:

I think 'dream' is not actually misunderstood but overused in the sense of life's goal or ambition, and the phrase 'What's your dream?' is not often (ever?) used by English speakers.

Have you people just never heard of google? 22 million results for that phrase.. get out more.

You're missing the point.

The word "dream" is normally meant to describe what happens when you physically sleep.

Koreans are using the word for its secondary or lesser meaning instead of its primary one.

When Martin Luther King coined the phrase "I have a dream!" what he literally meant was "I have an ambition!". It just sounded more appealing and poetic to use the former.

Congratulations, another americanism creeps in to corrupt the precision of the english language.

alongway

Joined: 02 Jan 2012

Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 6:43 am Post subject:

nautilus wrote:

alongway wrote:

Quote:

I think 'dream' is not actually misunderstood but overused in the sense of life's goal or ambition, and the phrase 'What's your dream?' is not often (ever?) used by English speakers.

Have you people just never heard of google? 22 million results for that phrase.. get out more.

You're missing the point.

The word "dream" has much wider meaning than Koreans use it for.

When Martin Luther King originally shouted "I have a dream!" what he actually meant was "I have an ambition!". It just sounded more appealing and poetic to use the former.

Congratulations, another americanism creeps in to corrupt the precision of the english language.

That's not the point. You can't fault Koreans for using words in the same way millions of native speakers use them. Yes, I realize some UK people get rather uppity about the differences in North American English and UK English, but that's more a failing of them than anything else. The fact is, they're perfectly acceptable, and Koreans have had teachers from both places traditionally, so using a particular word in the style of one of those main branches of English isn't a "misuse" which was the point of this thread wasn't it?

atwood

Joined: 26 Dec 2009

Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 6:06 pm Post subject:

alongway wrote:

Singularity wrote:

alongway wrote:

Wow..
lot of know it alls here who clearly know nothing

Quote:

2.) Famous. Kdef: having a good reputation or name. Edef: when a good many people have heard of something.

I typically hear this used by Koreans to refer to a feature or food of some other city. You don't get to have a good reputation or name without many people hearing about you.

It's often quite applicable if you bring up some town they'll often point out that it's famous for a certain kind of food, and most people you talk with about that town will ask you if you ate that particular food while you were there (like dalk galbi in Chuncheon). If you're talking about some other kind of usage, it certainly isn't the most common way I've heard the word used here, and it does certainly fall inline with standard english usage as tourist information often includes lines like "XXX village is famous for..."

I gotta disagree with you here.

Is Philadelphia famous for cheese steaks? No, most native English speakers would say "well known" instead.

Saying, "Gwangju is famous for bibimbap" just sounds wrong to me.

Psy is famous. Kimchi is not.

http://www.hotelsarti.com/en/where-we-are/riccione-hinterland.html
"This town is famous for spaghetti. "

As I said, tourist information on cities often includes things they're famous for, even food. It's not that different to say a town is famous for a museum, then to say it's famous for a local dish.

Here is an entire english speaking thread devoted to it on a forum, using that exact language:
http://forums.onewed.com/archive/index.php/t-2395.html
"Pittsburgh is famous for perogies."
"Georgia is famous for peaches."

The language is also often used with countries rather than cities, but it is still used with cities. I think the greatest joke is native speakers getting on Koreans for not understanding the language when they don't understand it themselves.

Good examples, but Koreans also use "famous" for things, such as restaurants, that are clearly popular rather than famous.

atwood

Joined: 26 Dec 2009

Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 6:10 pm Post subject:

jpe wrote:

that situation Particularly when "it" or "that" would suffice.

Today one of my student asked me "What does your cup contain?" I guess that's not technically wrong, but it is weird as hell.

I agree on the "two years later" thing, even with advanced students, but again it's more the fault of English than anything else....why do we say "a little later", or just "later" but not "[specific duration of time] later"?

"My body is sick"

"I wanna lose my weight"

"marry with..."[/b]

Two hours later, I was still waiting.

atwood

Joined: 26 Dec 2009

Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 6:18 pm Post subject:

[quote="le-paul"]

mnjetter wrote:

Quote:

How is it irrelevant?? The whole point of this thread is to point out words that Koreans use in English that is different from the way English-speakers use them, right?

thankyou for pointing that out to his haenous.

the reason i put 'arbeit' in the thread, was because alot of korean people seem to think that it is correct use of English. a sentence i have heard for example is" he only works arbeit". i then have to proceed to explain that arbeit is german and not english.
i thought that qualified as incorrect use of english ('especially' since it isnt even english).

alongtheway, it is very easy to sit behind the safety of your computer and be aggressive ( that is what arrogance, strong criticism and rudeness are fundamentally). if you spoke to me like that in a bar, i would take you outside for a minute. yr a coward, i hope you understand that about yourself.

And then there's how they write it--"alba."

atwood

Joined: 26 Dec 2009

Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 6:37 pm Post subject:

alongway wrote:

Quote:

I have lived in several different countries in my life, spent at least a year in three major dialectical regions of the United States (East coast, North central, and South), and wrote multiple papers on regional dialect while studying for my masters in applied linguistics. That "getting out" enough for you?

It might be if you didn't fundamentally misunderstand word origin and use.

Quote:

No, following my logic, 문 would be an English word if Korean people think that it's from the English word "moon," not just because it happens to sound like it.

Just because they've lost the root of a word doesn't change where the word actually came from and why it's used. Konglish tends to confuse the understanding of English. And there are few, if any people alive, who would remember the origin of that particular term. That doesn't change where it came from, or how or why it got into Korean English vocabulary. The only people who use it are those whose instructors have failed them, and end up assuming, like a lot do, that Konglish terms are directly from English and not modified in some way.

Quote:

Are you the OP? No? Then your interpretation of the "theme" of this thread is just as good as anyone else's. Nobody died and made you king of the forum.

The theme of the thread is very clearly defined as "Commonly misunderstood English words" You'd have to be suffering some kind of major deficiency to think this includes Korean words like "변태" or german Konglish vocabulary. One doesn't need to be the OP to point that out.

Quote:

"Promise"
KDef: Meeting, meetup, appointment. "Sorry I'm busy on Saturday. I have a promise".
EDef: 1. A serious agreement, contract, or commitment made to another person or persons.

This is mostly a translation error like a couple others that have been brought up here, in Korean they actually use the word for "promise" to indicate they've made a plan with someone.

Quote:

"Dream"
KDef: Your life's goal or ambition. "Whats your dream?"

Yeah, this is pretty frequently used by native speakers in exactly this way..they often talk about having a dream of travelling around the world, or owning a business, etc.

Native speakers speak of a dream as in one of many. They normally don't use is as the one and only goal in their life, a career goal that is often chosen for them by others at a fairly early age.

As for your harping on misunderstood, could it not be interpreted that the speaker has misunderstood it and is thus using it incorrectly and not just that, withexperience, most native speakers can correct the error in order to understand the speaker?

Although some of your objections are correct.

atwood

Joined: 26 Dec 2009

Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 6:43 pm Post subject:

alongway wrote:

Quote:

3.) Funny. Kdef: fun or interesting. Edef1: amusing. Edef2: peculiar.

This is much like the ed/ing issue we discussed with bored/boring. It's simply a mix up on the endings between fun and funny. That was fun vs that was funny. It's not that they think funny really means something else just that they're tossing the wrong ending on it.

Quote:

6.) Soso. Koreans think it means OK. In reality westerners rarely say this and if they do, it means very mediocre.

I still see no evidence that this is universally rare, where I come from I frequently heard so-so.

Quote:

13.) Hometown. Kdef: your place of origin, including town, area, district, or neighbourhood. Edef: Your town of origin only.

This is a pretty narrow distinction. Could you give an example where these might actually be used differently? The one argument I saw against hometown was more from someone who was completely unaware that native speakers actually used the word.

Quote:

24.) Cup. Kdef: any vessel for drinking out of. Edef1: drinking vessels of the type used for tea, or disposable paper or plastic ones. Edef2: sports trophies similar in type to medieval drinking vessels.

completely regional. I've heard all kinds of drinking vessels referred to collectively as "cups". Well beyond that definition. Where I come from cup essentially means anything without a handle. while mug is used to refer to those with a handle, but plenty of people use cup to refer to handled ones unless there is a need to be very specific (e.g. a handled and non-handled vessel sitting together and one specifically wanted the handled one)

Quote:

Not sure about 'uniform'. Do Koreans use it for any matching set, e.g. a tracksuit?

This is mostly coming from someone without obvious imperialistic issues. Uniform is used in North America just the same way that Koreans use it, which is likely where they generally got the knowledge of the term from. It's used differently in the UK.

Quote:

I think 'dream' is not actually misunderstood but overused in the sense of life's goal or ambition, and the phrase 'What's your dream?' is not often (ever?) used by English speakers.

Have you people just never heard of google? 22 million results for that phrase.. get out more.

One to add:
Play - Koreans often use it for hang-out. I don't know about casual use in the UK or Australia but in North America adults don't generally play unless there is a specific thing in mind, like a game or sport. Someone asking another adult to simply "play" generally has some kind of sexual undertones to it. This is a translation issue, as the verb used in Korea is 놀다 which is translated to play in most dictionaries.

So-so could well be regional. I hardly ever heard it used before coming to Korea. I have no problem with its use, although I'd have to agree that Koreans typically use it in the same manner they use satisfactory, i.e., to describe something as good or even very good rather than mediocre.

atwood

Joined: 26 Dec 2009

Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 6:50 pm Post subject:

Captain Corea wrote:

Pension. Kdef: A resort or guesthouse Edef: A retirement fund (but note that in parts of Europe it matches the Kdef)

I've never been to Europe, but immediately knew that its usage derived from its European usage, probably brought back by someone who stayed in a European pension.

Now "hof" is another matter.

le-paul

Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Location: dans la chambre

Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 7:55 pm Post subject:

i thought 'hof' came from the word 'david-hassl-hof'? So its german. 'alongtheway' will take great umbrage with this... btw, alongthe, if someone calls any drinking vessel 'a cup' or for that matter anything that you put food on 'a dish' (when each item has a specific name), id say if its an English speaker, theyre a bit uneducated maybe or just lazy?. Many people say 'Im going to get real on your ass' and 'im like so going to do that'. It doesnt mean it would qualify for a dictionary entry. Thats what urban dictionary and beach parties are for. cup - dictionary definition; Anything that holds fluid to be drank. Dish - dictionary definition; anything that you put on a table so long as its the shape of any galaxy and flat-ish. cut, paste and send to websters and oxford. And, the above doesnt make me imperalistic or anyone else 'uppity'. We just like speak so proper, man. edit - removed word

decibalsrising

Joined: 12 Sep 2012
Location: Seoul

Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 9:22 pm Post subject:

@Nautilus..I wouldnt brag too much about the perfect the English language is. There a shitload of grammar and complete nonsense with regards to spelling, grammar etc. before anyone came along and butchered the language. For a non-native speaker I would be confused Last edited by decibalsrising on Thu Nov 22, 2012 10:15 pm; edited 1 time in total

alongway

Joined: 02 Jan 2012

Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 9:23 pm Post subject:

atwood wrote:

alongway wrote:

Good examples, but Koreans also use "famous" for things, such as restaurants, that are clearly popular rather than famous.

Again this kind of education is free. 30 seconds on google and you can save yourself the embarassment. Native speakers also use famous to refer to restaurants that have food that many people like or that many people go to There is a very fine line between something which is popular and famous when it comes to something like a restaurant. Generally if a restaurant is popular, it is well-known and more or less famous. Perhaps on a local level. Yes, we might be more inclined to use the word popular in that situation, but that's why we have things like thesauruses. There are often multiple words that fit in a situation. We may collocate one over the other more naturally, but the other words still tend to be correct, and the collocations don't always match between various countries and regions.

Quote:

And, the above doesnt make me imperalistic or anyone else 'uppity'. We just like speak so proper, man.

Insisting that "football strip" is the only proper term while "soccer uniform" is in use by hundreds of millions of English speakers is a misuse does. As long as you cling to that, I put no value in anything else you spew.

Glass:
a tumbler or other comparatively tall, handleless drinking container.

Cup:
a small, open container made of china, glass, metal, etc., usually having a handle and used chiefly as a receptable from which to drink tea, soup, etc.

The material can be anything, it may or may not have a handle (though likely does) and it's used for drinking. This basically makes anything a cup. any material, handle or no handle, etc. Both glass and mug fit into the definition of cup. The only definitive part of the definition is "small" which is somewhat subjective.

Mug
a drinking cup, usually cylindrical in shape, having a handle, and often of a heavy substance, as earthenware.

Last edited by alongway on Thu Nov 22, 2012 9:34 pm; edited 1 time in total

atwood

Joined: 26 Dec 2009

Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 9:30 pm Post subject:

alongway wrote:

atwood wrote:

alongway wrote:

Good examples, but Koreans also use "famous" for things, such as restaurants, that are clearly popular rather than famous.

Quote:

And, the above doesnt make me imperalistic or anyone else 'uppity'. We just like speak so proper, man.

Yes, they refer to famous restaurants as famous, not some restaurant that is known to the locals. Brennan's is famous if you're from the area. You're familiar with Brennan's right?

Dig the obstinance.

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